BGVP discussion thread DM7/ DM6/DMG and NEW BA series

[archy121]

To Everyone Complaining Of Treble Issues - Have you got at least around 50Hrs Burn In/Use time on the DM6 ?


I know some don't believe in the Burn In process but today after hitting 40+ hours of burn in I’m sitting at the PC and with the DM6 going through some of my FLAC's and I notice a positive change.

So i'm wondering where you are at with usage or burn in time ?
Please reply with your time if you are having Treble issues.
@Hawaiibadboy How much time on your DM6 (even though you are comfortable with highs ion the first place) ?

On the very first day i got the DM6 I did quick few minutes only of listening to random tracks on my phone and i could not say anything negative from the very limited listening time.

Next day I put the DM6 on for a longer listening session and found that it was a fatiguing experience when listening for a longer period.

I was reminded of my bad experience with TF10's & EX1000 with intolerable highs.

I rolled tips which helped a little and decided to put it back on the burner. I didn’t want to panic and be judgemental too soon so I decided to let them burn to at least around 50Hrs.

So today having hit close to the burn in hours i decided to give the DM6 another chance with extended listening.

To my relief I managed to get through quite a lot of tracks fatigue free. I now found the sound to be nice and full and yet detailed without the fatiguing experience I had with earlier shorter listening sessions.

Its like things have calmed down and there is coherency across the whole frequency band. They now sound like full sized 50mm headphones to me. This was exactly what I was expecting from some of the earlier reviews before all the treble talk started.
I have listened to various tracks around 2 hours straight and walked away without feeling an irritable feeling in my ears or brain. Sweet

@perfecious you will be pleased to know that it passed the Rebel Yell SSSH test as well as Mony Mony which can be annoyingly shouty with some headphones.

I don't think this can be Brain burn like some describe as I have not listened to them regularly enough reaching the 50 hour mark. My brain has not had enough listening time to adjust to them. I walked away from them after getting the horrible fatiguing sensation on the second day when i tried to do my first proper listening session.

Is this change than because of IEM Burn In or Cable Burn in ?

I think its a combination of both judging from my first hand experience. More so the cable and any of the capacitors/wiring inside the IEM.

With a DD I can expect the drivers to contribute to the change more significantly than BA.

Also being an ex-HiFi enthusiast I’m aware of cable burn in from experience. Don't knock it as most high end HiFi specialists prescribe to it too.

From anti-static treatment to cable elevators, there are several things one can do to maximize the performance level of audio cables. For years now, manufacturers have been aware of another practice that drastically improves upon performance that has recently been gaining acceptance from HiFi enthusiasts: cable burn-in..... When cables are first put into use, their directionality is not securely established. However, once the Vidar begins running current through the cables, the trapped gases are dissipated and small impurities in the conductor’s metal begin to act like a diode, favouring current flow in a particular direction.

https://nordost.com/blog/what-is-cable-burn-in/

If you don't know the likes of Nordost than you don't know HiFi.

Before people set their dogs on me, just wanna say quickly, cables also need a burn in period. Sound improves with use.
Fresh cables can sound muddy, and a bit distorted.
Don't know why that is, but has been the case in my experience.

Has a valid point IMO.

@MariusAB It will be really interesting to hear from you how your new Copper cable behaves after ideally 48hrs of burn/use.

I already ordered the BGVP OCC cable because I prefer the sound and looks of copper (already use upgrade OCC with Fidelio X2). I got the horrible grey/white stock SPC which doesn't do the clear DM6 any justice in the looks department. I was also expecting that the copper cable would help taming the highs a little and improve the mid/lows. I prefer warmer sounds with silky smooth highs for longer listening sessions.

If you think 50 hours is madness - The guys on the IT01S thread are talking of 500 hours Ha-ha..


Using my all time favourite Sen IE7 tips. Ultra Wide bore all Silicon tips which i feel help taming highs and improve both the lows and soundstage. My PC setup uses Foobar player with ASIO bit perfect setup. It has a decent onboard DAC with AMP that can deliver 24/192 and DSD128. Not tested in length yet with my portable source - LG v30 or iPhone XS.

 

[jon parker]

Its like things have calmed down and there is coherency across the whole frequency band
]

This is essentially what you are looking at with burn in and what one usually experiences, more with DD drivers, more subtle with BA drivers
Very well put

 

[chinmie]

i tried the grey and white DM6 cable with my other iems, and it universally made all of them worse compared to other cables. the mid treble sounded more squeezed/pinched and the higher treble smeared.

 

[MariusAB]

To Everyone Complaining Of Treble Issues - Have you got at least around 50Hrs Burn In/Use time on the DM6 ?


I know some don't believe in the Burn In process but today after hitting 40+ hours of burn in I’m sitting at the PC and with the DM6 going through some of my FLAC's and I notice a positive change.

So i'm wondering where you are at with usage or burn in time ?
Please reply with your time if you are having Treble issues.
@Hawaiibadboy How much time on your DM6 (even though you are comfortable with highs ion the first place) ?

On the very first day i got the DM6 I did quick few minutes only of listening to random tracks on my phone and i could not say anything negative from the very limited listening time.

Next day I put the DM6 on for a longer listening session and found that it was a fatiguing experience when listening for a longer period.

I was reminded of my bad experience with TF10's & EX1000 with intolerable highs.

I rolled tips which helped a little and decided to put it back on the burner. I didn’t want to panic and be judgemental too soon so I decided to let them burn to at least around 50Hrs.

So today having hit close to the burn in hours i decided to give the DM6 another chance with extended listening.

To my relief I managed to get through quite a lot of tracks fatigue free. I now found the sound to be nice and full and yet detailed without the fatiguing experience I had with earlier shorter listening sessions.

Its like things have calmed down and there is coherency across the whole frequency band. They now sound like full sized 50mm headphones to me. This was exactly what I was expecting from some of the earlier reviews before all the treble talk started.
I have listened to various tracks around 2 hours straight and walked away without feeling an irritable feeling in my ears or brain. Sweet

@perfecious you will be pleased to know that it passed the Rebel Yell SSSH test as well as Mony Mony which can be annoyingly shouty with some headphones.

I don't think this can be Brain burn like some describe as I have not listened to them regularly enough reaching the 50 hour mark. My brain has not had enough listening time to adjust to them. I walked away from them after getting the horrible fatiguing sensation on the second day when i tried to do my first proper listening session.

Is this change than because of IEM Burn In or Cable Burn in ?

I think its a combination of both judging from my first hand experience. More so the cable and any of the capacitors/wiring inside the IEM.

With a DD I can expect the drivers to contribute to the change more significantly than BA.

Also being an ex-HiFi enthusiast I’m aware of cable burn in from experience. Don't knock it as most high end HiFi specialists prescribe to it too.


https://nordost.com/blog/what-is-cable-burn-in/

If you don't know the likes of Nordost than you don't know HiFi.




Has a valid point IMO.

@MariusAB It will be really interesting to hear from you how your new Copper cable behaves after ideally 48hrs of burn/use.

I already ordered the BGVP OCC cable because I prefer the sound and looks of copper (already use upgrade OCC with Fidelio X2). I got the horrible grey/white stock SPC which doesn't do the clear DM6 any justice in the looks department. I was also expecting that the copper cable would help taming the highs a little and improve the mid/lows. I prefer warmer sounds with silky smooth highs for longer listening sessions.

If you think 50 hours is madness - The guys on the IT01S thread are talking of 500 hours Ha-ha..


Using my all time favourite Sen IE7 tips. Ultra Wide bore all Silicon tips which i feel help taming highs and improve both the lows and soundstage. My PC setup uses Foobar player with ASIO bit perfect setup. It has a decent onboard DAC with AMP that can deliver 24/192 and DSD128. Not tested in length yet with my portable source - LG v30 or iPhone XS.

Thank for sharing all this info. And as i understood you have used in your burn in test the stock grey brown cable? That one that makes dm6 sssibilant for me and perhaps others.

 

[MariusAB]

i tried the grey and white DM6 cable with my other iems, and it universally made all of them worse compared to other cables. the mid treble sounded more squeezed/pinched and the higher treble smeared.

Seems that this cable not the best option for dm6. Don't know what cable other used or received, but as i understand other cable are way better. Even my tin audio t2 cable sounded better with dm6

 

[archy121]

Thank for sharing all this info. And as i understood you have used in your burn in test the stock grey brown cable? That one that makes dm6 sssibilant for me and perhaps others.

Yes the standard suppllied BGVP cable.
Please put your new copper cable to see if it changes. Maybe on another spare iem

i tried the grey and white DM6 cable with my other iems, and it universally made all of them worse compared to other cables. the mid treble sounded more squeezed/pinched and the higher treble smeared.

Has that cable had time on it in the even that cable burn is true ?
If not much than stick it on your least used iem and leave it on burn for 2 days.
Would be a good test to see if cable is plain rubbish and all the burn change is from IEM.

Although things have greatly improved for me, I feel further improvement will be gained by going to OCC cable.

 

[Hawaiibadboy]

Thank you, Crin. Really appreciate your comment on this. And I feel the same way about it being a unit difference/variance.

Just for the record, it's difference from 5 to 9kHz pretty much what I'm focusing on mainly. That is a very "sensitive area" to our ears, and even if the variation/peaks are subtle (and to me they are not that subtle, they are straight different) it does make a huge difference (and can make the DM6 harsh for some people), even though it's in the dip of the human ear loudness curve. I'm not making any solid conclusions as well because as you said, the best case scenario would be to run both DM6es (your pair and HBBs) on either your rig, or his, but yeah... As of now, I'm leaning towards unit variation as well, or straight up returning, which would not be good (that was my whole goal btw, to figure if this is true or not).




Please do the EX1000. It might not be the proper/ideal approach, but I think I will be able to create a difference curve (if the unit variation of the EX1000 is minimal). Still, it's a "laymen" way of doing it, but it's the best I can think of, without you guys having to ship your units back and forth to each other to test them.

The EX1000 ( Crin on Top. Mine on bottom)

I cannot do a Copper DM6 because it's a 4.4. I will do if i get a copper 3.5

 

[archy121]

The EX1000 ( Crin on Top. Mine on bottom)

I cannot do a Copper DM6 because it's a 4.4. I will do if i get a copper 3.5

DM6 graph with stock cable please.

 

[Redcarmoose]

To Everyone Complaining Of Treble Issues - Have you got at least around 50Hrs Burn In/Use time on the DM6 ?


I know some don't believe in the Burn In process but today after hitting 40+ hours of burn in I’m sitting at the PC and with the DM6 going through some of my FLAC's and I notice a positive change.

So i'm wondering where you are at with usage or burn in time ?
Please reply with your time if you are having Treble issues.
@Hawaiibadboy How much time on your DM6 (even though you are comfortable with highs ion the first place) ?

On the very first day i got the DM6 I did quick few minutes only of listening to random tracks on my phone and i could not say anything negative from the very limited listening time.

Next day I put the DM6 on for a longer listening session and found that it was a fatiguing experience when listening for a longer period.

I was reminded of my bad experience with TF10's & EX1000 with intolerable highs.

I rolled tips which helped a little and decided to put it back on the burner. I didn’t want to panic and be judgemental too soon so I decided to let them burn to at least around 50Hrs.

So today having hit close to the burn in hours i decided to give the DM6 another chance with extended listening.

To my relief I managed to get through quite a lot of tracks fatigue free. I now found the sound to be nice and full and yet detailed without the fatiguing experience I had with earlier shorter listening sessions.

Its like things have calmed down and there is coherency across the whole frequency band. They now sound like full sized 50mm headphones to me. This was exactly what I was expecting from some of the earlier reviews before all the treble talk started.
I have listened to various tracks around 2 hours straight and walked away without feeling an irritable feeling in my ears or brain. Sweet

@perfecious you will be pleased to know that it passed the Rebel Yell SSSH test as well as Mony Mony which can be annoyingly shouty with some headphones.

I don't think this can be Brain burn like some describe as I have not listened to them regularly enough reaching the 50 hour mark. My brain has not had enough listening time to adjust to them. I walked away from them after getting the horrible fatiguing sensation on the second day when i tried to do my first proper listening session.

Is this change than because of IEM Burn In or Cable Burn in ?

I think its a combination of both judging from my first hand experience. More so the cable and any of the capacitors/wiring inside the IEM.

With a DD I can expect the drivers to contribute to the change more significantly than BA.

Also being an ex-HiFi enthusiast I’m aware of cable burn in from experience. Don't knock it as most high end HiFi specialists prescribe to it too.


https://nordost.com/blog/what-is-cable-burn-in/

If you don't know the likes of Nordost than you don't know HiFi.




Has a valid point IMO.

@MariusAB It will be really interesting to hear from you how your new Copper cable behaves after ideally 48hrs of burn/use.

I already ordered the BGVP OCC cable because I prefer the sound and looks of copper (already use upgrade OCC with Fidelio X2). I got the horrible grey/white stock SPC which doesn't do the clear DM6 any justice in the looks department. I was also expecting that the copper cable would help taming the highs a little and improve the mid/lows. I prefer warmer sounds with silky smooth highs for longer listening sessions.

If you think 50 hours is madness - The guys on the IT01S thread are talking of 500 hours Ha-ha..


Using my all time favourite Sen IE7 tips. Ultra Wide bore all Silicon tips which i feel help taming highs and improve both the lows and soundstage. My PC setup uses Foobar player with ASIO bit perfect setup. It has a decent onboard DAC with AMP that can deliver 24/192 and DSD128. Not tested in length yet with my portable source - LG v30 or iPhone XS.

I totally agree with burn-in they smooth out. The right cable can adjust the treble further. But also they are transparent of what’s upstream so warmer DAPs are going to make them sound warm and flat personality DAPs are going to make them flat. They are amazing that way. Tips are also going to adjust the sound somewhat.

Tips always have a specific personality with all IEMs. Today I was amazed how just a certain frequency was altered by simply switching tips on another IEM.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Hope it’s OK to post this here? It gets a B-; beating out stacks of IEMs.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crinacles-iem-ranking-list-275-entries-06-01-19-update.857498/

Remember too, this is just one persons posted option, to be used as a guide; nothing set in cement here.

 

[FastAndClean]

The EX1000 ( Crin on Top. Mine on bottom)

I cannot do a Copper DM6 because it's a 4.4. I will do if i get a copper 3.5

big sub bass drop off, i remember the bass being more extended, in your videos you are showing graphs and pointing roll of in the bass that is probably not there
upper mids and treble in your measurement seems about right, rough and uneven

 

[archy121]

Hope it’s OK to post this here? It gets a B-; beating out stacks of IEMs.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crinacles-iem-ranking-list-275-entries-06-01-19-update.857498/

Remember too, this is just one persons posted option, to be used as a guide; nothing set in cement here.

Yes we all hear quite differently. And I’m guessing the testing was done with with stock cable
and tips to keep things fair.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Yes we all hear quite differently. And I’m guessing the testing was done with with stock cable
and tips to keep things fair.

All of Head-Fi is folks trying to reach common ground regarding a completely subjective territory with a multitude of OTHER convoluted obstacles in the way. To make a list is at best a guide. Though I do reach agreement on his list. Folks reach an emotional point due to the fact that they are spending their hard earned money on something they believe in, and then it gets judged as mediocre or not the best. Still you at least have to respect the effort put in the list. We are all striving for the same goals in the end.

No list can be definitive due to amps being different and DACs being different. Heck he has difficulty too from what seems like variables between individual IEMs. So it’s just a guide.

And we can’t forget too that everyone listens to different music. Some IEMs are simply better at certain genres. And......laughably.....most of us don’t even know what we like half the time.

 

[chinmie]

Seems that this cable not the best option for dm6. Don't know what cable other used or received, but as i understand other cable are way better. Even my tin audio t2 cable sounded better with dm6

yes, to a point that i think BGVP would better off selling the DM6 without the cable and reduce the price, so the buyer can pick their own cable

Yes the standard suppllied BGVP cable.
Please put your new copper cable to see if it changes. Maybe on another spare iem



Has that cable had time on it in the even that cable burn is true ?
If not much than stick it on your least used iem and leave it on burn for 2 days.
Would be a good test to see if cable is plain rubbish and all the burn change is from IEM.

Although things have greatly improved for me, I feel further improvement will be gained by going to OCC cable.

not a believer of cable burn in, but won't hurt to give it a try as an experiment. I'll put the BGVP cable for some hours of playtime

 

[archy121]

@chinmie cheers mate. That will be a good experiment and possibly reinforce my findings.

@Redcarmoose here is classic favourite of mine for you. Sure will be stunning with your DM6