[ColtMrFire]

   
thanks again.
I have been checking some Schiit products.
What do you think about the Vali 2 + Modi 2?  I like that these 2 are the same size...
Isn't the Valhalla 2 supposed to pair with Bifrost?
Is there a big diffrence between the Vali 2 and Valhalla 2 with T90?
I am sorry if I am asking noob questions here

 
I've used Vali 1 but not Vali 2.  Vali 1 is very good, but Vali 2 is supposed to be much improved.  And you can do some cheap tube rolling with Vali 2 (one tube instead of multiple).  
 
I did own the Modi 2 for a while.  Great DAC, but with Modi Multibit (Mimby) being $250, there's really no point in getting Modi 2 since Mimby is far, FAR superior.  The Schiit multbit DACs (Modi MB aka Mimby, Bifrost MB aka Bimby, Gungnir MB aka Gumby, Yggdrasil aka Yggy) have a special megacomboburrito filter that is Schiit's "secret sauce" that makes them sound so bloody amazing.  I have demoed Yggy, their most expensive DAC, and the Mimby is not far behind in performance, which is amazing considering the $2K price difference.  Multibit/R2R DACs present music in a different way than Delta Sigma DACs (which are the majority of DACs).... the best way to describe it is Multibit sounds more analog and less digital (of course there are smooth D/S DACs, but i'm speaking generally), and it presents the music in a much more realistic fashion.  This is especially beneficial for classical and jazz or live recordings that have instruments and voices arranged in a certain fashion in the soundstage... multibit DACs presents those things in their proper place vs. Delta Sigma DACs which I find are a little less accurate in terms of staging.  For instance, when I had the Bifrost 4490, instruments seemed much more up-front and in your face... when I got the Mimby, everything was pushed further back and spread out more, kind of like pieces on a chess board in their proper place, and I could sit back and enjoy it more.  Also the multibit DACs tend to have better layering and instrument separation.  There are some very good D/S DACs, but I will never buy one again knowing mulitibit is available.  
 
The Valhalla 2 pairs with whatever you want to pair it with.  There is no rule.  The Bifrost has the same size chassis, but that's more of a convenience thing.  Honestly, if it's between Vali 2 and Valhalla 2, Valhalla 2 is going to be better.  It will just be slightly more expensive to roll tubes, since Valhalla 2 has two input tubes (the two power tubes don't need to be rolled unless you really want to experiment).  From what i've read, there is not a huge difference between Vali 2 and Valhalla 2 in terms of quality, but from my time with Valhalla 2, it paired beautifully with the T90.  I ultimately sold it because I realized I did not like distortion (tube sound), even if it wasn't that excessive on Valhalla 2.  I ended up with the Schiit Jotunheim, which is far better than Valhalla 2 (and only $50 more) on a technical level.  Jotunheim is solid state, but I like the clarity, cleanliness and slam of solid state better... Schiit has a 15 day return policy (with a small restocking fee), so you can also buy and try it out, and see if you like the sound.  I am not sure what your preference is... tubes or solid state?  The T90 works great with either, it just depends on the DAC.
 
Again, if you're budget is $1K, I would not bother with any DAC besides the Modi multibit, as it's going to be the best DAC you can get without spending thousands of dollars.  It's probably the best deal in all of headphonia at the moment, IMO at least.  I would do some more reading about Mimby, and see what others think, and you will see what I'm talking about.  Especially since the T90s are so bright, Mimby is going to tame that brightness a good deal, since it is so smooth and analog sounding.

 

[biosailor]

I see you are lucky enough to have a GSX MK2.  How does it pair with the T90?  I know people rave about the HD800 pairing.

The GSX-Mk 2 is an absolute Dream, period. If Not stacked on top of the power supply, it is totally free of noise, black background. Messing around with noisy tube amps, I just had it. The GSX-Mk 2 is a very dynamic and ultra fast amplifier. Just made for an HD800! For a T90, the GSX-Mk 2 might be a bit of an over achiever, pushing it a bit into sibilance. So you have to be careful with the music to choose. But the amp pulls out the last little detail with the T90. Interestingly, sibilance has been pushed way back with the balancing mode. In this configuration, the T90 is a serious competition for the HD800.

Now the amp is one side of the coin. The GSX-Mk 2 is driven by a very musical R2R DAC, an Italian Aqua La Voce S2. It's not a common DAC here in the forum, but it is a very smooth one, devoid of any digital glare. That makes a phenomenal combo already.

I'm waiting for the Aurender N100H streamer to arrive. The local dealer tries to build a 4 TB disk into the N100H. Before ordering it, I naturally tried it out and boy was it good! The SQ improved a lot when the DAC was driven by the Aurender, instead of the MacBook Pro. So the final audio chain has not yet been established, but I hope soon.

 

[ColtMrFire]

The GSX-Mk 2 is an absolute Dream, period. If Not stacked on top of the power supply, it is totally free of noise, black background. Messing around with noisy tube amps, I just had it. The GSX-Mk 2 is a very dynamic and ultra fast amplifier. Just made for an HD800! For a T90, the GSX-Mk 2 might be a bit of an over achiever, pushing it a bit into sibilance. So you have to be careful with the music to choose. But the amp pulls out the last little detail with the T90. Interestingly, sibilance has been pushed way back with the balancing mode. In this configuration, the T90 is a serious competition for the HD800.

Now the amp is one side of the coin. The GSX-Mk 2 is driven by a very musical R2R DAC, an Italian Aqua La Voce S2. It's not a common DAC here in the forum, but it is a very smooth one, devoid of any digital glare. That makes a phenomenal combo already.

I'm waiting for the Aurender N100H streamer to arrive. The local dealer tries to build a 4 TB disk into the N100H. Before ordering it, I naturally tried it out and boy was it good! The SQ improved a lot when the DAC was driven by the Aurender, instead of the MacBook Pro. So the final audio chain has not yet been established, but I hope soon.

 
Man, this has me salivating.  When budget allows, I want a GSX MK2 to pair with my HD800, which I just got a few days ago.  It sounds absolutely amazing with my Schiit Jotunheim/Schiit Modi Multibit (R2R) DAC.  The Jotunheim is another "wire with gain" type amp that is extremely transparent and delivers whatever it is fed, with no character of its own.  I have not heard the GSX, but I would like to think Jot is not far behind in performance.
 
After hearing the HD800, I am selling the T90, just don't have a need for it since 800 does everything better for my tastes.

 

[damienPOWER]

I've had the T90's for a few months now. Still very happy. Have been listening to music with a small EQ of -3db around 11k - which I'm sure is averaged around that mark - to reduce the harshness. It basically solved the problem of some tracks being mastered too bright, and then being overbright combined with the T90s.

 

[JBal4]

how does the bass of the hd800 compare to the t90? 

 

[biosailor]

  how does the bass of the hd800 compare to the t90? 

T90 is way better in the bass department! That's the HD800's weakness: bass. A lot of audiophiles tend to EQ the bass region by about +2-4 dB, and also dampen a bit the 6 kHz peak of the HD800. I never liked EQing, too many variables in influencing the sound properties of a headphone. But others swear on it!

 

[Me x3]

  how does the bass of the hd800 compare to the t90? 

T90 has more bass. Both are similarly clean, if you raise the level too much HD800 will start sounding a bit cleaner in the sub bass region, but not a huge difference anyway.

 

[ColtMrFire]

T90 is way better in the bass department! That's the HD800's weakness: bass. A lot of audiophiles tend to EQ the bass region by about +2-4 dB, and also dampen a bit the 6 kHz peak of the HD800. I never liked EQing, too many variables in influencing the sound properties of a headphone. But others swear on it!

Sorry but this is complete nonsense. The bass of the HD800 is of higher quality. It contains more resolution and goes deeper. The T90 has great bass but it is slightly more bloated, does not go as low and does not have as much refinement.

The great lie is that HD800 is "bass-light", "thin", "sterile" etc. With a balanced cable and the right amp they have incredible bass, are supremely musical, euphonic, etc.

 

[Me x3]

Sorry but this is complete nonsense. The bass of the HD800 is of higher quality. It contains more resolution and goes deeper. The T90 has great bass but it is slightly more bloated, does not go as low and does not have as much refinement.

The great lie is that HD800 is "bass-light", "thin", "sterile" etc. With a balanced cable and the right amp they have incredible bass, are supremely musical, euphonic, etc.

HD800 has less bass than:
 
DT880 Pro / DT990 / late K702 / K712 / K812 / HD600 / HD650 / HE400i / T1 / T90 / Audeze LCD2-3-X / HE1000 / Elear / Utopia / Fidelios / HE-500 / ...
It's definitely bass light in comparative terms.
 
With the "right amp" or EQing you can change the headphone's character, that's granted.
You can EQ T90's bass for flatter response as well.
 
Bass on the T90 has little to no distortion @90dB and just a bit more distortion than HD800 in the sub-bass if you go up to 100dB which by the way is quite loud. So the difference in terms of 'refinement' is not that much really.
 
Both are good in terms of bass extension, if you match them at 1kHz the T90 will provide more sub-bass, not sure why you say HD800 goes deeper.

 

[biosailor]

Sorry but this is complete nonsense. The bass of the HD800 is of higher quality. It contains more resolution and goes deeper. The T90 has great bass but it is slightly more bloated, does not go as low and does not have as much refinement.

The great lie is that HD800 is "bass-light", "thin", "sterile" etc. With a balanced cable and the right amp they have incredible bass, are supremely musical, euphonic, etc.

I'm just saying what others say. Look up Tyll Hertsens' views about the HD800, Bob Katz, too. As I said, I'm no friend of EQing headphones, but many do, and it really is a matter of personal taste!

 

[Amarphael]

HD800 has higher quality bass but the T90 is not that far behind and has a more satisfying body to it, for sure. T90 also has fuller lower mids which is another weakness of the HD800.

 

[ColtMrFire]

 
HD800 has less bass than:
 
DT880 Pro / DT990 / late K702 / K712 / K812 / HD600 / HD650 / HE400i / T1 / T90 / Audeze LCD2-3-X / HE1000 / Elear / Utopia / Fidelios / HE-500 / ...
It's definitely bass light in comparative terms.
 
With the "right amp" or EQing you can change the headphone's character, that's granted.
You can EQ T90's bass for flatter response as well.
 
Bass on the T90 has little to no distortion @90dB and just a bit more distortion than HD800 in the sub-bass if you go up to 100dB which by the way is quite loud. So the difference in terms of 'refinement' is not that much really.
 
Both are good in terms of bass extension, if you match them at 1kHz the T90 will provide more sub-bass, not sure why you say HD800 goes deeper.

 
I have the HD800 and T90 side by side.  The 800 has better quality bass that hits harder and goes deeper (yes, it goes deeper and harder, I have compared them), and there is more texture to it.  The T90 has MORE bass and very good bass, but it sounds bloated in comparison to me and not as well controlled.  That was my response to "the T90 is way better in the bass department!".  It's simply not true if you're talking pure technical ability and resolution.  One may enjoy the bass of the T90 more, but that's an entirely different thing.  The HD800 is not "bass light", it is simply not excessive.  It is very balanced with the entire frequency range.  
 
I see in your sig you have the HD800.  Do you have the T90 to compare it?

 

[Me x3]

   
I have the HD800 and T90 side by side.  The 800 has better quality bass that hits harder and goes deeper (yes, it goes deeper and harder, I have compared them), and there is more texture to it.  The T90 has MORE bass and very good bass, but it sounds bloated in comparison to me and not as well controlled.  That was my response to "the T90 is way better in the bass department!".  It's simply not true if you're talking pure technical ability and resolution.  One may enjoy the bass of the T90 more, but that's an entirely different thing.  The HD800 is not "bass light", it is simply not excessive.  It is very balanced with the entire frequency range.  
 
I see in your sig you have the HD800.  Do you have the T90 to compare it?

 
I'm don't agree with the T90 being "way better in the bass" either.
I think it's a matter of preference, both are good technically speaking with HD800 having the edge by a relatively small margin.
 
HD800's bass is flatter and that's why HD800 is relatively cool sounding, while T90 has more bass and lower midrange presence.
Sometimes is not a matter of control but a matter of frequency response. Boost the bass and it could appear as 'bloated' with certain recordings.
 
As I've said, in comparative terms HD800 is bass light since it has less bass than most other quality open back headphones.
In absolute terms it could be a different story depending on how we define being "bass light"
 
I consider the HD800 a neutralish headphone, like the K702 or DT880 Pro.
These can be bass light with good part of the non-audiophile recordings in my experience, but are most of the times perfectly fine for top class recordings.
 
I don't have a T90 these days but keep my T1.1 which has less bass than T90 but still more than HD800.

 

[ColtMrFire]

The HD800 has plenty of bass when it needs bass.  On tracks where there is alot of bass, I hear alot of bass, but even then the bass is hard and tight, very controlled.  On tracks that don't have bass, I don't hear any bass.  It has great control of the bass, which is why you only get it when it's on the track.
 
With the T90, I hear bass sometimes even when it's not called for, which is why it seems a bit bloated to me.  T90 is a warmer headphone and some of that comes from the "moar bass" presence.  It has more a bass presence, you feel it often.  The 800 is more neutral, so it only gives bass as its needed, which is why is has a reputation as a "bass light" headphone.
 
I much prefer the bass of the 800.  But, yes, it's a matter of preference.  Both have good quality bass, but the 800, IMO, is far better in that department, and every other department for that matter.  T90 is a great headphone, but it is mid-fi, and doesn't compete with TOTL cans.  I am glad I was able to snag a used 800, best purchase I've ever done.

 

[Me x3]

  The HD800 has plenty of bass when it needs bass.  On tracks where there is alot of bass, I hear alot of bass, but even then the bass is hard and tight, very controlled.  On tracks that don't have bass, I don't hear any bass.  It has great control of the bass, which is why you only get it when it's on the track.
 
With the T90, I hear bass sometimes even when it's not called for, which is why it seems a bit bloated to me.  T90 is a warmer headphone and some of that comes from the "moar bass" presence.  It has more a bass presence, you feel it often.  The 800 is more neutral, so it only gives bass as its needed, which is why is has a reputation as a "bass light" headphone.
 
I much prefer the bass of the 800.  But, yes, it's a matter of preference.  Both have good quality bass, but the 800, IMO, is far better in that department, and every other department for that matter.  T90 is a great headphone, but it is mid-fi, and doesn't compete with TOTL cans.  I am glad I was able to snag a used 800, best purchase I've ever done.

 
Glad to read you're enjoying your HD800!
It is indeed a really capable headphone.