[OneSec]

Quote:

 
I am not ready for purchase yet, and even though they are not closed I am getting curious about these phones that are mentioned over and over again, so I will go and listen to a pair of DT880, a HD600/650 and possible also a K701. FischerAudio seems not to be sold in Sweden where I live, so I have to discard that one straight off, regrettably.
 
Thanks everyone, I'll keep you updated!
/g
 

Great! Sounds like you are going to audit those phones, and that's the only way to make the correct choice!! Everyone here can advice you on tons on spec and charts on sheets, as well as impressions, ultimately, your ears make the decision!
 
Color or not, who cares, as long as you enjoy the music!
 
The DT880, K701 and HD650 are great phones with different offerings, I hope one of them suites your taste. You might want to listen to them plugged in to your current setup, as they require the "right" amp to produce the best synergy.
 
Btw open cans should reduce your heat problem.
 

 

[purrin]

Anything but D2000. Some good recommendations here already mentioned. HD800 is mostly certainly not V-shaped. Don't me make pull out my own graphs. LOL!

 

[Wapiti]

If I only have 1 stereo mic (H4N for example), where would be the best place to place it for recording orchestra?

Generally a single X?Y stereo pair sounds best right behind the conductor, 12' - 15' up and pointed at the winds (oboe, clarinet, flute). As a concerto soloist will be up front, their sound will be highlighted due to the closer proximity.

BTW, these little recorders can capture very good sound if fed a decent line level signal from even a basic mic preamp.

Have fun!

 

[Wapiti]

. . . the list of reading material. I think it should be on every hardcore audiophile's and engineer's shelf.

Absolutely! Everyone who listens to recorded sound will benefit tremendously. They are must reads.

Good point about noise reduction and headphones; it is easier to hear processing artifacts with headphones - but equally easier to be a bit more aggressive than you need to.

OP: It's fun to hear that you are enjoying your music through headphones. It is a different way to listen. Good luck in your search!

 

[OneSec]

Quote:

Generally a single X?Y stereo pair sounds best right behind the conductor, 12' - 15' up and pointed at the winds (oboe, clarinet, flute). As a concerto soloist will be up front, their sound will be highlighted due to the closer proximity.
BTW, these little recorders can capture very good sound if fed a decent line level signal from even a basic mic preamp.
Have fun!

Totally new on this, and in fact H4N will be my first ever mic. I'll send you PM later
 

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Generally a single X?Y stereo pair sounds best right behind the conductor, 12' - 15' up and pointed at the winds (oboe, clarinet, flute). As a concerto soloist will be up front, their sound will be highlighted due to the closer proximity.
BTW, these little recorders can capture very good sound if fed a decent line level signal from even a basic mic preamp.
Have fun!

I agree. If you want to get fancier you can easily build a Jecklin disc or holophonic microphone for better imaging through headphones. Search for a thread about Jecklin discs here on head-fi. I made a few posts about building one. I would personally place my holophonic microphone just above the conductors head, aimed at the winds as well UNLESS there is a piano behind the conductor. If that's the case, then I would rather place it ~15 inches up infront of the center of the stage.
 
I LOVE my H4n!

 

[Acix]

I can recommend the K-702 for acoustic and classical music, BUT for all the good open hps you'll need some SS hps amp. The 800's are hot in the treble area better to go with tube amp.

 

[OneSec]

Sorry guermantes for abusing your threads again. But its hard to get great advice

I will try to go on PM if I have further questions than these. Wapiti and LFF thanks for the great advice. Found these where LFF were giving some great advice.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/565397/jecklin-or-schneider-disc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jecklin_Disk

Just google and look for some information on Jecklin disc / holophonic microphone
Looks from Google pictures and these descriptions looks like they are intended for duo mic configuration. I'm planing to use the mic from H4N, so they are not applicable? Is H4N mic so terrible? Good mics are more expensive than H4N and many headphones discussed around here T_T.

H4N is a initial test, so I may not get this duo mic configuration until I have some exiting / distinctive result compare to normal cam recorders.

a basic mic preamp
I'm not sure how to bypass H4N pre-amp for using the integrated mic. Searched around the Internet and general answer was no way to bypass the H4N pre-amp.

 

[NamelessPFG]

I would think that Stax (or anything else electrostatic) would be the most suited to classical, but even a vintage Lambda setup is likely to be out of your price range (more like $250-300 when someone's selling them with a driver unit), even moreso if you don't already have a speaker power amp of any sort to feed the transformer box that usually comes with them at lower price points.
 
The vast majority are open models, so expect them to leak sound...but you can also expect a vast, ambient sort of sound that tends to just flow into your ears, with this sense of detail and clarity that I doubt anything aside from electrostatics can deliver (at least out of what I've heard).
 
Also, they're comfortable. Really comfortable. You might just forget you're wearing them at times.
 
On the off chance you don't like them, you're bound to break even easily if you put them up for sale on the B/S/T section here. Too bad that it's hard to audition them BEFORE buying them, for that's the only way you can know for sure whether the sound is for you...but if you can afford it up front, it might be worth a chance.

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

I wouldn't dream of speaking for LFF, but I can't master to headphones.
I use HD600's to edit as one can easily hear flaws, low level background changes, etc. with headphones. Then listen on studio monitors in a prepared room for any sound related editing, and finally real world testing on the big rig and even the car.
LFF, great list of reading suggestions in the other thread. I have most of them sitting on a bookshelf now, although I don't have the latest edition of Bob Katz's book.

Would you kindly point me to the suggested reading list? It's now Autumn... will be digesting more audio knowledge and sipping elegant green teas this season.
 

 

[Ham Sandwich]

 
Quote:

Thanks everyone for your input in this thread!
 
I have been listening a lot to the D2000 which I have to go and return to the store now. It has been an eye (ear?)-opening week-end since I have got to hear aspects of the music I love in a very new way, closer and more life-like. I have never heard a stroke on the cello come to life like this, except for in the concert hall. Nor Brünnhilde for that matter. I like the sound very much although sometimes I think it sounds a bit muffled, but since most of the time it is very clear I am leaning towards the explanation that it is the recording of the CD in question that is not top-notch. The bass seems very appropriate for opera and symphonies.
 
I am having an issue, though, with them getting a bit hot over my ears after say 45 minutes or so which lowers the comfort, and also, although they are very comfortable when first put on the head, they are quite loose and move around when I tilt my head.
 
I am not ready for purchase yet, and even though they are not closed I am getting curious about these phones that are mentioned over and over again, so I will go and listen to a pair of DT880, a HD600/650 and possible also a K701. FischerAudio seems not to be sold in Sweden where I live, so I have to discard that one straight off, regrettably.
 
Thanks everyone, I'll keep you updated!
/g
 

 
The Denon D2000 is recessed (has a frequency dip) around the 3kHz range.  That causes violins to sound dull, muffled would be another way to describe it.  It's an unfortunate aspect of the Denon.  I EQ my Denons to fix that.  Then they sound better for classical where the violin sound is quite important.  The 3kHz range also hits the harmonics of vocals for both male and female opera style singing.  A recessed 3kHz will make the vocals sound duller than they should.
 
The Denons also have a distinct room sound that they create.  I call it my Denon Hall.  All acoustic naturally recorded music takes on a bit of that Denon Hall effect.  A definite coloration of the room sound in the recording.  It's rather fun and pleasant, but a coloration nonetheless.
 
I enjoy the Denons with classical.  Especially big classical like Carmina Burana.  So big.  So much timpani boom.  So much big choral.  But I EQ to get rid of the dullness.  With computer as source it is easy to add good software parametric EQ, but not an ideal solution.
 
Otherwise I use the Sennheiser HD600 for classical.  No EQ needed or suggested.  The difficulty with the HD600 and HD650 is amping.  I'm not sure how well your NAD integrated amp will drive the Senns.  Underdriven the Senns are somewhat dull and lazy.  Less vigor in the violins.  Less snap in percussion.  The good news is that some good affordable headphone amps that do well with the Senns have been released recently.  A favorite of mine is the Schiit Asgard.  Gives me the sound I want from the HD600.  The Asgard is $250 USD plus shipping costs.  Not exactly "cheap" though definitely cheaper than it used to be to be to amp the Senns well with the flavor of Senn sound that the Asgard delivers.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Would you kindly point me to the suggested reading list? It's now Autumn... will be digesting more audio knowledge and sipping elegant green teas this season.
 

Here you go:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/574226/educating-yourself-about-audio

 

[Wapiti]

Excellent, thoughtful, insightful post, Ham. 
 
I have a friend with the Denons and now want to try them again with your thoughts in mind.
 
Quote:

 
The difficulty with the HD600 and HD650 is amping.  I'm not sure how well your NAD integrated amp will drive the Senns.

NAD makes delightful, fairly priced gear.  I expect that its headphone output would do nicely.
 

 

[drummerman]

Quote:

d2000 are indeed very interesting HP if you sacrifice some time to "cure" them

cable and pads are first things to change. as for mentioned HP like akg or beyers which are IMO better technically than stock denons youll have to improve your setup to make them shine.

A very, very subjective comment indeed.
 
'Technically' and we are talking measurements here, they (Denons) are up there with the best dynamics, even before you start to 'cure' them with different pads and ... ahem ... cables.
 
regards

 

[Ham Sandwich]

I checked the data sheet for the NAD C316BEE.  Headphone output impedance is 68 ohms.  Most likely the headphone jack is driven by a resistor network from the power amp.  That will give you the sound character of the speaker amp through the headphones.  Good if you happen to like the sound of the speaker amp and that sound is a match for the headphones.
 
The downside to that design is that it gives you a high output impedance.  Generally not a good match for low impedance headphones like the Denon.  My experience trying the Denon in higher impedance headphone outs is that the Denon loses some bass level and bass extension along with some other slight tonal changes and sharper treble.  Not the best way to drive the Denon.  The good news is that a higher output impedance will work fine with the 300 ohms Senns and some of the AKG's and similar headphones.  If you're going to use the NAD as your headphone amp I'd focus on headphones with an impedance of say 60 ohms or more.  I have no experience listening to the headphone out of the NAD so it's hard to say how it would match up.  Just making an assumption based on the specs and an assumption that the NAD is using a resistor network to power the headphone jack.