[Ham Sandwich]

The 1/8 rule seems to be more of a design exercise on paper to figure out a good ratio that covers a wide variety of situations, including low ohm headphones.  In practical use with highish ohm headphones the ratio can be less, with ratios of 1/2 or so being a starting point.
 
Some modern headphone amps have a high output impedance.  Especially OTL (Output TransformerLess) tube amps.  Here's an example of one that has an output impedance of 120 ohms, Bottlehead Crack.  They recommend headphones with an impedance of 200 ohms or more be used with it.  So that's around the 1/2 ratio mark.
 
With your NAD I'd think a 250 ohm Beyer or possibly a 600 ohm Beyer would work fine.  Or a 300 ohm Sennheiser (like the HD600 or HD650) would work fine.  There's other highish ohm headphones out there as well.
 
If I was looking for a dedicated headphone amp that would be compatible with a wide variety of headphones I'd want an amp with a very low output impedance.  I don't know why Beyer went with 100 ohms for their amp.  They do make 600 ohm headphones so maybe that's part of the reason.  It does limit the suitability of the amp if you happen to have any low impedance headphones in your collection.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

PS. On a similar note, I do wonder how many people are unhappy with their headphones without realizing these potential issues with their chosen amplification.
 

Basically you're right, and there is the DAC factor as well. On the other hand, not all the hps have the same needs for amplification.

 

[guermantes]

Hi everyone,
 
I'm back with a report. I have listened extensively now to both the D2000 and also DT880. This whole exercise sure turned out to be tougher than I thought it would be.
 
I think I mostly prefer the Denons when it comes to symphonic/opera because they have a little more "oumph" which I guess would be attributable to the bass, also they sound a bit tighter. But then I ever so slightly prefer the DT880 when it comes to chamber music, string quartets and the like. And then the semi-openness of the phones makes the soundstage larger and more free to my ears which I like.
 
Comfortwise I prefer the Beyers, and quite a lot. The Denons are just a tad to large and give me the feeling that they will tilt and fall off if turn my head, which distracts from the music appreciation. 
 
I think I will go for the DT880 even though I love Wagner, plus a Music Fidelity V-CAN to try to make up for the lost "oumph" instead of plugging them directly to the NAD amplifier.
 
I think probably a 600ohm model just becasue it seems from this forum that if one would be a tad better then it would be the 600 rather than the 250. I have only listened to the 250ohm though. I hope the Musical Fidelity V-CAN can handle the 600 ohm DT880.
 
Last thought of regret: I do like the looks of the Sennheiser 650 or 598 but am afraid of the reports that they sound veiled and leak more sound than the Beyers.
 
Thanks a lot for all help and guidance!! 
(comments still welcome!

 ) 
 
/g
 
 

 

[liamstrain]

So you're going computer > vcan > NAD > 880/600ohm? 
 
That should be good - though I do not know the specifics of the headphone out on the NAD. 
 
It should be noted, I think the 600 ohm version of these cans will decrease the "oomph" factor - but there is a tradeoff in detail and clarity. You might be able to eq some of the belly back into it. 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

I think I will go for the DT880 even though I love Wagner, plus a Music Fidelity V-CAN to try to make up for the lost "oumph" instead of plugging them directly to the NAD amplifier.
 
I think probably a 600ohm model just becasue it seems from this forum that if one would be a tad better then it would be the 600 rather than the 250. I have only listened to the 250ohm though. I hope the Musical Fidelity V-CAN can handle the 600 ohm DT880.
 

Absolutely not. In fact a properly amped DT880 would beat the D2000s at everything apart from flatulent bass response due to their closed nature. The DT880s are in a different league in terms of sound quality and accuracy. Skip the V-CAN, instead look for a used Darkvoice 336 or 337, pair with a VT-231 if you want some oomph! A neutral set of cans like the DT880s also benefit greatly from a good quality source.
 
In my opinion if you don't match the DT880s with an OTL tube amp I wouldn't touch them.

 

[guermantes]

I was thinking computer > Dacmagic > NAD > V-CAN > 880/600ohm. Because the dacmagic only has one RCA out and I would like to be able to serve both headphones and loudspeakers.
 
Is NAD > V_CAN a no-no?
 
600 = Decrease oomph? Oh Crikey...
 
 
 
Quote:

In my opinion if you don't match the DT880s with an OTL tube amp I wouldn't touch them.

Why is this just getting harder and more expensive... 

 

[liamstrain]

600 = tighter voice coil = oomph is at the very least better controlled. Insufficient amping will mean less of it as well. 
 
I was mistaking the v-can for the vdac, hence my confusion. I don't know that I would bother with the NAD in your stream though. Just seems like one more point to introduce noise and decrease signal clarity. 
 
What about just putting an RCA splitter on the back of the Dacmagic and connecting to the v-can directly (as well as the NAD). 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

I was thinking computer > Dacmagic > NAD > V-CAN > 880/600ohm. Because the dacmagic only has one RCA out and I would like to be able to serve both headphones and loudspeakers.
 
Is NAD > V_CAN a no-no?
 
600 = Decrease oomph? Oh Crikey...
 
Why is this just getting harder and more expensive... 

I read your comparisons between the DT880 and the D2000; ultimately you're comparing an under-powered DT880 to a sufficiently amped D2000 because they don't require much power at all.
 
That said if you quite like the DT880 in it's current state stick with it and skip the V-CAN, in fact do you even notice much of an improvement with the DACmagic in the chain... you could sell that too. On the other hand if you want a bump in quality sell the DACmagic for a W4S DAC or DL3 and a high powered OTL tube amp. This would cost you about a grand, perhaps it would be worth saving for?

 

[guermantes]

@Graphism, sorry for being daft, but I do not quite understand. You recommend a proper amp for the DT880:s, i.e. a tube amp. Stepping up to buy a head-amp at all was not something I had planned on, and stepping up again to buy a more expensive head-amp than the V-CAN might not be possible (a quick search of the second hand market in Sweden did not turn up any darkvoices).
 
1) In that situation, are you saying V-CAN would not ameliorate 880:s at all, that I might just as well plug them in the headphone jack of the NAD?
 
2) And when you say that my comparison was between underpowered beyers and properly powered denons, you probably hit the spot, but does that not mean that I should be even more satisfied with the beyers (and get a more full sound) if I powered them better, which a V-CAN would do, compared to a headphone jack in the NAD?
 
 

 

[guermantes]

What about the Little Dot MKII tube amp? 
It is cheap but it seems people use it with good results with DT880:s (even 600ohm).
 

 

[Graphicism]

I'm saying if you like the DT880s directly from your NAD then keep that until you can afford a proper amp. I've heard a few solid state amps with the Beyers and none of them really do what a tube amp does, that being body and impact.
 
The LDII and LDIII are weak as tube amps go, I've heard an upgraded LDIII and it didn't do much for the 600Ohm Beyers. If you can't find a Darkvoice then a WooAudio 2 or 3 would also pair well but they cost a little more. In addition to the amp are upgraded tubes which would be another $100+