[Pricklely Peete]

Agreed 100% Les.


Peete.

PS: Les have you tried the RE1/Phoenix combo with your main rig yet ? It's definitely worth the hassle.

 

[jp11801]

Members here should be cautious regarding RAM and Kyle and perform some due dilligence prior to handng over any of your hard earned cash.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Just a couple of comments about litz wire.

The Wikipedia article is a good one, but one portion of it deserves to be emphasized:

Litz wire uses some different tricks. Instead of using one big conductor, it uses lots of little conductors (strands) in parallel (forming a bundle). Each little conductor is less than a skin-depth, so an individual strand does not suffer an appreciable skin effect loss. However, that is not the complete story. The strands must be insulated from each other -- otherwise all the wires in the bundle would short together, look like a single large wire, and still have skin effect problems. Furthermore, the strands cannot occupy the same radial position in the bundle: the electromagnetic effects that cause the skin effect would still disrupt conduction. The bundle is constructed so the individual strands are on the outside of the bundle (and see low resistance) for a time, but also reside in the interior of the bundle (where the EM field changes are the strongest and the resistance is higher).

Much of the wire offered as "litz wire," including that from Cardas, doesn't meet this criteria, which is really the raison d'etre of litz wire, i.e. to address skin effect.

The Cardas "litz" wire is what's called "Type 1" litz. Which is just individually insulated wires simply twisted together like a typical stranded wire.

Type 1 litz doesn't address skin effect because the individual strands retain the radial position in the bundle from end to end. Current density increases in the outside strands and decreases in the inside strands, no differently than is the case with a solid wire of the same cross-section.

To address skin effect, you need to use a Type 2 construction.

Type 2 litz uses a number of bundles of twisted strands which are then further twisted together.

In this arrangement, each strand more or less occupies every radial position along the length of the wire and current density is more or less equal in every strand, ameliorating losses due to skin effect.

If anyone would like to experiment with Type 2 litz, Surplus Sales of Nebraska sells an approximately 28 gauge litz (40 strands of 44 gauge wire) for just 30 cents a foot (though they have a $10 minimum order).

k

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just a couple of comments about litz wire. The Wikipedia article is a good one, but one portion of it deserves to be emphasized: Litz wire uses some different tricks. Instead of using one big conductor, it uses lots of little conductors (strands) in parallel (forming a bundle). Each little conductor is less than a skin-depth, so an individual strand does not suffer an appreciable skin effect loss. However, that is not the complete story. The strands must be insulated from each other -- otherwise all the wires in the bundle would short together, look like a single large wire, and still have skin effect problems. Furthermore, the strands cannot occupy the same radial position in the bundle: the electromagnetic effects that cause the skin effect would still disrupt conduction. The bundle is constructed so the individual strands are on the outside of the bundle (and see low resistance) for a time, but also reside in the interior of the bundle (where the EM field changes are the strongest and the resistance is higher). Much of the wire offered as "litz wire," including that from Cardas, doesn't meet this criteria, which is really the raison d'etre of litz wire, i.e. to address skin effect. The Cardas "litz" wire is what's called "Type 1" litz. Which is just individually insulated wires simply twisted together like a typical stranded wire. Type 1 litz doesn't address skin effect because the individual strands retain the radial position in the bundle from end to end. Current density increases in the outside strands and decreases in the inside strands, no differently than is the case with a solid wire of the same cross-section. To address skin effect, you need to use a Type 2 construction. Type 2 litz uses a number of bundles of twisted strands which are then further twisted together. In this arrangement, each strand more or less occupies every radial position along the length of the wire and current density is more or less equal in every strand, ameliorating losses due to skin effect. If anyone would like to experiment with Type 2 litz, Surplus Sales of Nebraska sells an approximately 28 gauge litz (40 strands of 44 gauge wire) for just 30 cents a foot (though they have a $10 minimum order). k

Very interesting. Check your second pic, I think you have the wrong one there.

.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very interesting. Check your second pic, I think you have the wrong one there..

Wrong one? What wrong one? Looks ok to me. Maybe you need to get your eyes checked.

Thanks for catching that. It's been fixed.

k

 

[IPodPJ]

I remember when I owned the Sony CD1000. Both the CD1K and CD3K used a Litz wire.

 

[squall343]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Jones /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks to haloxt who was kind enough to send me a signal cable,I got to try the amp.It STILL doesn't work.Tried all combinations to no avail.So all this effort by everybody to solve this problem brings me to this point.Time for Kingwa to step up to the plate and ship another unit immediately.I've done enough and WAITED LONG ENOUGH.Nothing left to do,but say thanks for the help and support.

I think the right thing now kingwa to do now

is to ship a new unit asap and maybe some compensation for the time wasted

 

[punk_guy182]

-How many faulty units are out there?
I recall reading that there were some issues with Bob Jones unit and IPodPJ's.

-How much of a SQ increase would be the replacement of wires?
Has Kingwa considered switching wires inside the Phoenix for the Litz one?

 

[haloxt]

Bob Jones' is the only one not working. Mine wasn't working because I damaged the serial cable. I think Bob Jones should try to use another amp and see if that one plays just to be safe

I would be very disappointed if it's not really the Phoenix being faulty and audio-gd has to pay for all that shipping.

 

[Bob Jones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by squall343 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the right thing now kingwa to do now is to ship a new unit asap and maybe some compensation for the time wasted

Well,this is how it ended up.Kingwa would not send another unit until he got this one back first.Went back and forth a few times and decided to send the amp back and get a refund.End of story?Not quite,Kingwa wants me to ship the amp to a fellow head-fi member.And he will ship another Phoenix immediately,and I accepted his offer.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by punk_guy182 /img/forum/go_quote.gif -How many faulty units are out there? I recall reading that there were some issues with Bob Jones unit and IPodPJ's. -How much of a SQ increase would be the replacement of wires? Has Kingwa considered switching wires inside the Phoenix for the Litz one?

Mine works fine.

And no, Kingwa will not switch them out for the base model.
But perhaps you can pay him extra for the wire (or send him the wire)
and then he will do it for you.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Jones /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well,this is how it ended up.Kingwa would not send another unit until he got this one back first.Went back and forth a few times and decided to send the amp back and get a refund.End of story?Not quite,Kingwa wants me to ship the amp to a fellow head-fi member.And he will ship another Phoenix immediately,and I accepted his offer.

I think that's a wise choice on both of your parts. You will get a great amp and he wants to find out from another member which chassis is the faulty one so that only one piece needs to be shipped to and fro.

 

[boomana]

Bob Jones, which member is going to get your amp?

 

[Bob Jones]

First it needs to be fixed then I don't know,but I bet it will be a heck of a deal.
To haloxt,I used a cd player output to headphones worked fine then rca to amp no luck.
Man,everything was tried and I think it's a small problem but on the inside.

 

[The Monkey]

Kingwa should make Bob's old amp a demo amp that he sends around to prospective purchasers.