[corrupt_undead]

Did the top 20 Mobius Influencers get any special treat at the shipping?
I'm one and beeing about to go to holiday I would need to arrange pick up in case it arrives within the next two weeks.
I did not get a tracking number, but that seems to be common by some of the people were the headphones already arrived.
Thanx!

The top 20 fan packages are shipping separately. Same goes for the headphone stands.

 

[Netherwind]

I think that is the fixed model he brought to the meet... he already has made posts saying how great the hiss fix has been... so if you can still hear hiss and this is the fixed model... ugh I am cancelling my order. My Monoprice $25 bluetooth headphones don't have any hiss at all... and they are over ear closed back wireless bluetooth as well. 0 noise floor on them. heh

It was 100% not the fixed model, he has two of them right now. Hi-res is broken on the fixed model at the moment, which is why he didn't bring it to the meet.

 

[antdroid]

What exactly does this do? I’ve been researching it for two hours and still can’t figure it out.

If given a two channel input it runs an hrtf. Okay fine. There’s no detail on how the acoustic room measurement is done. No information on what kind of anatomical analysis it does.

With the nuraphones at least they explained how it measures your ear canal and pinna.

What exactly does it do with 5.1 or 7.1? Does it decode Dolby digital? Does it decode Atmos? What sort of ambisonics does it support? How many orders?

How does it work with games? I believe there are no plug ins or additional software needed so I suppose it does a hrtf on the stereo output of the game?

So many unanswered questions and website is just fluff marketing. There’s no information beyond fluff. No real technical information. The reviews are typical industry standard stuff they have to say to stay in their industry.

I remember from the Nura episode how it was hyped like it would the last headphone you would need. It all made sense all the entire headphone industry takes advantage of the fact that we all have different auricular anatomy. So it’s never one size size fits all and the companies release all these flavors of the same thing at different price points. It’s why nobody can ever agree on headphones. But after it came out it was pretty much a gimmick at the end of the day. It hasn’t revolutionized anything.

It was months of hype before it came out. Months of hype after it came out. And now it’s an “also ran” at best.

Head tracking is cool. But seriously which clown will put another pound of weight on their head on top of a VR headset? Seems to be so big as to double your head size. And with the VR headset it will be triple. How exactly will the head tracking work with VR games?

I understand why audiophile phones need to be big. I can see why people would want planar magnetic. This is highly processed gaming audio. There only two things that really matter: COMFORT and DSP.

As for comfort I hate to say it but nothing comes close to the Bose Stayhear earbuds. No other IEM or earbud is more comfortable. I have not found any over ear headphone I could tolerate for more than an hour without something hurting, irritating or my ears sweating.

As for DSP, ambisonics is the future. Even Dolby Atmos is basically a proprietary implementation of Ambisonics. How does this tie into Ambisonics? What sort of software does the conversion from stereo/5.1/7.1 to B format? If I watch a movie in 7.1 for example, how exactly is this trying to recreate that? In a game how does this capture aural cues?

The only thing it seems to do is introduce a newer and different HRTF. I might be wrong but there is no actual info, just a bunch of marketing.

Beyond that why should it make sense that the HRTF is done in hardware? Sure it can be FW updated but not as easily as just software. As it stands Dolby headphone being sent to a Quietcontrol 30 would be the best configuration for movies.

If Bose adds head tracking to those and releases an alternative DSP software to Dolby for games it would beat this. As it stands the gaming industry needs to tell Dolby, DTS etc to take a hike and go all in on open source Ambisonics. Also someone needs to make knock off Stayhears that don’t infringe on their patent.

This whole concept of needing over the ear headphones for sound stage is ridiculous when DSP is involved. All that can be done in DSP. If you want to be a purist and not use DSP then okay use big bulky headphones with exotic drivers. When DSP gets involved comfort is all that matters in the end.

Like they say in photography, the best camera is the one that you have on you when perfect photo opportunity presents itself. In headphones it’s the one that doesn’t hurt your ears or cause you a sense of dread to put on. I’ve been doing this headphone audio for a long time and it’s come down to this. The best headphone is the one they irritate you. The one that draw your attention to it. The one you don’t need to adjust every 5 minutes. The one that doesn’t make you eventually feel like never using it again.

I suspect this is the reason we see many of us nearly 10-15 pairs around. We say each has its purpose. I think each hurts you a different way and you just feel like taking a different hurt each time you put them on. You ear canal hurts? Take off the IEMs and put on the over ears. Your pinna hurts? Switch to the IEMs.

In today’s DSP driven era I don’t see much use for non purists to suffer with stuff. I am not a purist anymore. DSP can do everything we used do with physical design. Think about the diameter of your eardrum. If you need to feel bass get a butt kicker.

Planar Magnetic headphone by Audeze + boom mic + DSPs for gaming/movies/music + 3D head tracking + built-in amp + bluetooth + usb-c + grows money on headband + grants you 3 wishes

 

[ChaseM]

Just thought i'd jump in and give my thoughts. I received my unit on Wednesday but have only had the opportunity to try them out today. The big deal seems to be hiss. On my particular unit the hiss is definitely present. For those of you familiar with using sensitive iem's with balanced armatures...the hiss is approximately the level you get using those out of a high impedance source. Personally, i'm not that bothered by it. Its there for sure but it doesn't in any way negatively affect gaming for me.

For me personally if it hadn't been brought up in this thread i would have never given it a thought. But I do have other rigs used for more critical listening so these aren't used for that purpose for me.

I have to believe that the hiss has to be worse on some units. It's really a non-issue for me.

I believe Audeze will do whats right to keep their backers happy. I've had several dealings with Audeze customer service and have never been anything less than completely satisfied in their response to any issues i've had in the past. So hopefully they get it all worked out.

Chase

 

[sxr71]

Wow, most of your questions have been answered in this thread many times, if you would have stuck to under five maybe some of us would try to answer some, but I honestly don't even know where to start. Do you seriously expect anyone to take the kind of time it would to explain everything your asking? Just try searching in the thread for the most important things you want to know.

Sorry man I don’t have time like I used to. In fact I haven’t been on this site for months if not years. I used to spend hours reading through a thread. But 250+ pages? Mostly filled with banter. There is no single post that explains what it does.

But then again this isn’t your job. The manufacturer hasn’t given enough of a care to put up an FAQ or explain the technology.

The only thing I saw is that content can be create with Waves software.

Maybe these forums should let users select in a drop down whether their post is technical in nature or some shipping related stuff. Then a reader could filter out the other stuff.

Planar Magnetic headphone by Audeze + boom mic + DSPs for gaming/movies/music + 3D head tracking + built-in amp + bluetooth + usb-c + grows money on headband + grants you 3 wishes

Ok I like this.

DSP? What kind? What does it take as input? Does it take measurements of your ear? Measurements of the room? Does it take 5.1 and convert to B format?

Why is planar magnetic needed when DSP is involved? I guess then it wouldn’t raise your d ck

Wow, most of your questions have been answered in this thread many times, if you would have stuck to under five maybe some of us would try to answer some, but I honestly don't even know where to start. Do you seriously expect anyone to take the kind of time it would to explain everything your asking? Just try searching in the thread for the most important things you want to know.

However to be fair let me just put down my top two questions.

If given 2 channel input what sort of processing is it using? A proprietary HRTF? With head tracking taken into consideration? Is it using Waves HRTF?

If given 5.1 or 7.1 is it converting to B format and then applying Waves binaural processing?


I did a bit more research at Waves. Basically it seems that I could spend $200 and get all this functionality into any pair of headphones. They may not be planar magnetic but they also wont crush my head. Am I wrong here?

Actually I guess I can experience a subset of this for $10.

https://www.waves.com/nx/mac-windows-app

Add the head tracker for $99 and I guess I’ll have everything this offers?

 

[MICHAELSD]

However to be fair let me just put down my top two questions.

If given 2 channel input what sort of processing is it using? A proprietary HRTF? With head tracking taken into consideration? Is it using Waves HRTF?

If given 5.1 or 7.1 is it converting to B format and then applying Waves binaural processing?


I did a bit more research at Waves. Basically it seems that I could spend $200 and get all this functionality into any pair of headphones. They may not be planar magnetic but they also wont crush my head. Am I wrong here?

IMO the main draw with Mobius it that it’s Audeze’s most affordable and most technically-advanced planar magnetic headphone. The other features are just the cherry on top.

 

[sahmen]

Congrats to @Audeze and @KMann for providing a great showcase of excellent customer relations.

 

[Lunar Eclipse]

https://audeze.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/categories/360000427911-Mobius-Technical-Questions
https://fccid.io/2APRZ-MOBIUS/User-Manual/User-Manual-3871521
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/how-planar-magnetic-headphones-work
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-l...-minded-immersive-audio-and-holophony.865973/
It may be worth checking out these two pieces of free software: hesuvi and toneboosters isone

What exactly does this do? I’ve been researching it for two hours and still can’t figure it out.

If given a two channel input it runs an hrtf. Okay fine. There’s no detail on how the acoustic room measurement is done. No information on what kind of anatomical analysis it does.

With the nuraphones at least they explained how it measures your ear canal and pinna.

What exactly does it do with 5.1 or 7.1? Does it decode Dolby digital? Does it decode Atmos? What sort of ambisonics does it support? How many orders?

How does it work with games? I believe there are no plug ins or additional software needed so I suppose it does a hrtf on the stereo output of the game?

So many unanswered questions and website is just fluff marketing. There’s no information beyond fluff. No real technical information. The reviews are typical industry standard stuff they have to say to stay in their industry.

I remember from the Nura episode how it was hyped like it would the last headphone you would need. It all made sense all the entire headphone industry takes advantage of the fact that we all have different auricular anatomy. So it’s never one size size fits all and the companies release all these flavors of the same thing at different price points. It’s why nobody can ever agree on headphones. But after it came out it was pretty much a gimmick at the end of the day. It hasn’t revolutionized anything.

It was months of hype before it came out. Months of hype after it came out. And now it’s an “also ran” at best.

Head tracking is cool. But seriously which clown will put another pound of weight on their head on top of a VR headset? Seems to be so big as to double your head size. And with the VR headset it will be triple. How exactly will the head tracking work with VR games?

I understand why audiophile phones need to be big. I can see why people would want planar magnetic. This is highly processed gaming audio. There only two things that really matter: COMFORT and DSP.

As for comfort I hate to say it but nothing comes close to the Bose Stayhear earbuds. No other IEM or earbud is more comfortable. I have not found any over ear headphone I could tolerate for more than an hour without something hurting, irritating or my ears sweating.

As for DSP, ambisonics is the future. Even Dolby Atmos is basically a proprietary implementation of Ambisonics. How does this tie into Ambisonics? What sort of software does the conversion from stereo/5.1/7.1 to B format? If I watch a movie in 7.1 for example, how exactly is this trying to recreate that? In a game how does this capture aural cues?

The only thing it seems to do is introduce a newer and different HRTF. I might be wrong but there is no actual info, just a bunch of marketing.

Beyond that why should it make sense that the HRTF is done in hardware? Sure it can be FW updated but not as easily as just software. As it stands Dolby headphone being sent to a Quietcontrol 30 would be the best configuration for movies.

If Bose adds head tracking to those and releases an alternative DSP software to Dolby for games it would beat this. As it stands the gaming industry needs to tell Dolby, DTS etc to take a hike and go all in on open source Ambisonics. Also someone needs to make knock off Stayhears that don’t infringe on their patent.

This whole concept of needing over the ear headphones for sound stage is ridiculous when DSP is involved. All that can be done in DSP. If you want to be a purist and not use DSP then okay use big bulky headphones with exotic drivers. When DSP gets involved comfort is all that matters in the end.

Like they say in photography, the best camera is the one that you have on you when perfect photo opportunity presents itself. In headphones it’s the one that doesn’t hurt your ears or cause you a sense of dread to put on. I’ve been doing this headphone audio for a long time and it’s come down to this. The best headphone is the one they irritate you. The one that draw your attention to it. The one you don’t need to adjust every 5 minutes. The one that doesn’t make you eventually feel like never using it again.

I suspect this is the reason we see many of us nearly 10-15 pairs around. We say each has its purpose. I think each hurts you a different way and you just feel like taking a different hurt each time you put them on. You ear canal hurts? Take off the IEMs and put on the over ears. Your pinna hurts? Switch to the IEMs.

In today’s DSP driven era I don’t see much use for non purists to suffer with stuff. I am not a purist anymore. DSP an do everything we used do with physical design. Think about the diameter of your eardrum. If you need to feel bass get a butt kicker.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I’ve been thinking that since all the surround processing is virtualized on a software level inside of the headphones, the solution to getting surround sound out of sources that can only output 2.1 via 3.5mm is to process surround sound mixes client-side. That is, having the device itself convert the 5.1 mix to 2.1 — such as what Microsoft already offers on Xbox One. (Microsoft’s options probably aren’t as good as Audeze’s implementation of virtual surround sound but it’s a serviceable way of dealing with 2.1 sources.)

This can also apply to Bluetooth. If the mix is converted to 2.1 on a client level with the same software inside of Mobius then it could be streamed via LDAC with similar quality as if the headphones were fed a 5.1 source since at the end of the day they’re both converting the 5.1 mix to virtualized 2.1 surround sound. So the solution to more surround sources may just be licensing the software to as many manufacturers as possible. An accessory that emulates the software inside of Mobius is also a possible option for home theaters.

Anyway, I assume companies like Microsoft aren’t currently looking into licensing the software so I wonder what can be done to make i.e. Microsoft’s own virtualized surround sound work more naturally with Mobius’ own head-tracking processing. (Assuming other companies offer decent viritualized 5.1.)

 

[sxr71]

Just got the FREE mobile app. I guess I’ll try it and then add the $99 head tracker.

https://audeze.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/categories/360000427911-Mobius-Technical-Questions
https://fccid.io/2APRZ-MOBIUS/User-Manual/User-Manual-3871521
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/how-planar-magnetic-headphones-work

Wow thanks! Real tech info. Just when I thought this was marketing company.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Just got the FREE mobile app. I guess I’ll try it and then add the $99 head tracker.

Not sure what you’re trying to prove. At the end of the day this is their entry-level over-ear headphone and that’s what people are paying for even if you can add head tracking to any pair of headphones. I’m sure it’s more polished here than simply doing that.

 

[archagon]

Actually I guess I can experience a subset of this for $10.

https://www.waves.com/nx/mac-windows-app

Add the head tracker for $99 and I guess I’ll have everything this offers?

Personally, I'm interested because the functionality is baked right in to the headphones. This means you can plug them in and immediately use them as a 5.1 or 7.1 source with compatible devices, turning them into an instant, portable set of "speakers". (I'm not even sure the Waves tracker is able to work as a generic sound source. It's possible you might have to keep the plugin running in a DAW to get the same experience.) The latency should also be really low in comparison, since the tracker has to go through your OS and back, and I've had fairly poor results with the video-based tracking included in the plugin.

But frankly, that's just the cherry on top. This is one of the first (if not the first) BT planar magnetic headphones on the market, by Audeze, for $250 (pre-retail)—plus a mic for gaming. That's just a great deal no matter how you slice it.

 

[sxr71]

Ok so I looked over everything. It is Waves NX. The app has the same measurements. And the same ambience setting. I bet the $10 Windows app does the same.

What bothers me here is that for 5.1 or 7.1 you must connect via USB. So console users are out. Thankfully I use a PC.

What I don’t understand is why the 5.1 to Binaural conversion doesn’t occur in the app itself. It seems the app is just there to program the settings in the Möbius headphones. And all the processing occurs in the headphone hardware. Why app doesn’t offer the processing to allow at least PC gamers to experience wireless 5.1/7.1 is something I don’t understand. The other use would be to watch movies.

I understand that Bluetooth is bandwidth limited so they could not implement wireless 5.1.

I wonder if certain blu-Ray players could output 5.1 via USB. Or if there is way to convert HDMI (from the ARC) to USB 5.1 audio.

The market seems a bit too new to and disjointed to make this something that remains relevant 2 years from now.

If they made a device that takes the ARC and does the processing to binaural and then bluetooths it out it would be great.

I also see why the processing has to be done onboard. The head tracker is an input to the processor. So to externally process the audio the head tracker data would need to be sent back to either the PC running the processor or the external device doing the processing.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Ok so I looked over everything. It is Waves NX. The app has the same measurements. And the same ambience setting. I bet the $10 Windows app does the same.

What bothers me here is that for 5.1 or 7.1 you must connect via USB. So console users are out. Thankfully I use a PC.

What I don’t understand is why the 5.1 to Binaural conversion doesn’t occur in the app itself. It seems the app is just there to program the settings in the Möbius headphones. And all the processing occurs in the headphone hardware. Why app doesn’t offer the processing to allow at least PC gamers to experience wireless 5.1/7.1 is something I don’t understand. The other use would be to watch movies.

I understand that Bluetooth is bandwidth limited so they could not implement wireless 5.1.

I wonder if certain blu-Ray players could output 5.1 via USB. Or if there is way to convert HDMI (from the ARC) to USB 5.1 audio.

The market seems a bit too new to and disjointed to make this something that remains relevant 2 years from now.

If they made a device that takes the ARC and does the processing to binaural and then bluetooths it out it would be great.

I also see why the processing has to be done onboard. The head tracker is an input to the processor. So to externally process the audio the head tracker data would need to be sent back to either the PC running the processor or the external device doing the processing.

Yes, you would probably lose head tracking if the virtualization was done client-side.

 

[archagon]

The head tracking has to be done in the headphones, or at the very least over a wired, low-latency connection. Bluetooth incurs a latency of ~100ms, which will simply make you nauseous if the head tracking is done through the app.

If you want non-head-tracked 5.1 or 7.1 over Bluetooth, I'm fairly certain there already exists software to do that for you. Should be a pretty simple transformation.