[epocs]

Kind of on another note--
 
I've been running the LCD-2 and HD800 both through the WA6SE and find them both to sound excellent. Each headphone is so great in their own right. However, I don't think its smart to own both of these if you are obsessive compulsive on hearing the difference of music between the two cans.
 
It's funny... I never really found the HD800 to be fatiguing in the highs or too bass light. This was until I started to a/b the LCD-2s and them... Suddenly the HD800 became fatiguing and I kept wanting to turn down the highs with an equalizer or something. Also, wanted to get more oomph from the bass.
 
Additionally, can't quite get over how the vocals seems muddled on the LCD-2 everytime I A/B  with the HD800. When I listen to the Audeze by itself, I don't necessarily feel this way, but when I listen to the HD800, I realize there is a certain clarity that I'm missing out when I switch to the LCD-2. Also, the soundstage just closes right in!
 
For this reason, I think it's smart for me to own just one headphone and enjoy them for what they are, instead of always thinking of how they will compare to other gear! Can't seem to enjoy the music as much when I keep just thinking about how it's being reproduced in my headphones.
 

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

I think he was referring to resonance of the wood frame on the LCD2.  No EQ is gonna fix that.

The wood doesn't resonate.  Waterfall plots objectively prove that and my ears subjectively confirm it.

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

Kind of on another note--
 
I've been running the LCD-2 and HD800 both through the WA6SE and find them both to sound excellent. Each headphone is so great in their own right. However, I don't think its smart to own both of these if you are obsessive compulsive on hearing the difference of music between the two cans.
 
It's funny... I never really found the HD800 to be fatiguing in the highs or too bass light. This was until I started to a/b the LCD-2s and them... Suddenly the HD800 became fatiguing and I kept wanting to turn down the highs with an equalizer or something. Also, wanted to get more oomph from the bass.
 
Additionally, can't quite get over how the vocals seems muddled on the LCD-2 everytime I A/B  with the HD800. When I listen to the Audeze by itself, I don't necessarily feel this way, but when I listen to the HD800, I realize there is a certain clarity that I'm missing out when I switch to the LCD-2. Also, the soundstage just closes right in!
 
For this reason, I think it's smart for me to own just one headphone and enjoy them for what they are, instead of always thinking of how they will compare to other gear! Can't seem to enjoy the music as much when I keep just thinking about how it's being reproduced in my headphones.
 

X2 They are different enough that direct a/b does cause people to hear more of an issue than there really is and I have the same thing happen to me in my gear at home. I believe I touched on this a few pages back LCD-2 to HD 800 bright but great clarity, less bass. HD 800 to LCD-2 slightly congested/heavy, darker, bass and mids more robust. It is all a matter of perception though and the contrasting sometimes amplifies this.
 

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

@ Sokolov:
 
 
Most current tube amps are as flat as solid state.
 
They can be, mostly because of better transformers.  But they can be made to deviate from flatness via tube choice.  Try it.
 
 
You THINK you are hearing colourations from these sources. You do not know.  Not causal and it won't be until you know B is NECESSARILY caused by A.
 
That's a counsel of perfection for a discussion like this.  And a bit defensive.  You like your LCD-2s.  I get it.
 
 
Which headpones do you enjoy for a point of reference?
 
I'm at a point where I think of amps + tubes + phones as integrated systems.  I think that's where this hobby is right now.
 

Nah I am not defensive I just wanted to point out how you are taking a hunch and turning it into pseudofact... I will buy you a beer if you are right but I don't think there is enough evidence to conclude you are hearing these things for the reasons you state. I don't doubt you dislike for the reasons and to you they are very real, but I don't think they are caused by the magnets and wood because lots of people do not hear this.
 
I like my LCD-2, like my HD 800... very happy with this combo and if people want to nit pick any headphone can be made out to look bad but they are both winners.
 
 
You still didn't mention a headphone either which makes understanding your taste and where you are coming from nigh impossible...
 
Saying your system is unique because of all the matching and ETC is fair to a degree... but the headphone will still sound like the headphone, just better or worse... not going to be "night and day".
 

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Quote:

Just guessing.  And I got bored typing "diaphragm" - hard to spell.  Do you have the figures?  And to be fair I was generalizing - do you agree a typical planar diaphragm is heavier than a typical headphone diaphragm (which is heavier than a typical stat diaphragm), or not?

You were guessing. Good.
No, I do not think that a typical planar diaphragm is heavier. That is because I have seen and touched a few of them. A few that I have not seen first hand have also been shown in the drivers picture thread. Based on that, my guess is that the dynamics are in general heavier. None of that has anything to do with the LCD-2 or HD800 though, since none of them are an average of other headphones.
 

 

[SP Wild]

If I'm not mistaken, on a conventional voice coil driver, the diaphragm needs to be moved with the voice coil and spring tension - meaning that the entire diaphragm/voice coil assembly is heavier than the diaphragm of the Planar driver as there is no voice coil and spring tension.  The "unsprung mass" of a planar planar driver is much lower than a voice coil driver.  Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
The argument that the a planar headphone sounds more like a speaker, often with voice coils, than a voice coil headphone and has the same limitations is a very weak argument IMO.  If anything, the HD800 would sound like a voice coil speaker whilst the LCD2 would sound more like a planar speaker, and even that is open to dispute.

 

[rgs9200m]

X2 for what  epocs   said precisely and concisely just above (post #826); it's a real choose-your-poison predicament.
 
I find myself turning to my PS1000s and T1s more and more because of this.
Actually, the HD800s do respond nicely to a little treble cut if you have a good equalizer that doesn't muddy up the bass or anything else.
(And, when the recording dictates, I do the same thing with my PS1000s and T1s.)
I was a purist, totally against equalizers when I was mainly a speaker guy, but I have come to embrace them with phones, but just to tame highs and upper mids to mellow things out.
 
If you have some of these phones that have painful highs time to time (as, curiously, many do), I recommend before you give up on the particular phones because of this,
you try some treble control.  What works for me is sending the source (cd player for me) to a high quality preamp with tone controls an then to the headphone amp.
I have a McIntosh C46 and a Van Alstine UltraEC that I play around with that are both fine for this.
 
I use a 2nd output from the CD player going directly into a 2nd input of the headphone amp (a B52) if I want to avoid the preamp, so I get the best of both worlds by just a flip of a switch.
 
I find this setup invaluable and is probably cheaper than churning thru phones/amps/tubes/cables in the probably fruitless task of finding the perfect phones and amp combo
on all your music. (It sure seems that way from the trillion posts here...)
 
Just my 2 cents, of course.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

If I'm not mistaken, on a conventional voice coil driver, the diaphragm needs to be moved with the voice coil and spring tension - meaning that the entire diaphragm/voice coil assembly is heavier than the diaphragm of the Planar driver as there is no voice coil and spring tension.  The "unsprung mass" of a planar planar driver is much lower than a voice coil driver.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are correct.  People wouldn't hear it from me, maybe they'll hear it from you.
 

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

You are correct.  People wouldn't hear it from me, maybe they'll hear it from you.
 

Its obvious to me that a voice coil driver is spring loaded to return to its "neutral" position...just check any speaker driver.  This would mean that the acceleration rate is resisted when the driver is compressing air and assisted when decompressing air, via the spring loaded voice coil - the forces involved are not at all uniform during the diaphragms travel.
 
I wonder how a planar knows its center rest position.  Is it also guided by spring tension...which I don't see in any pictures...or is it just via the static magnetic field?  I could imagine the benefits of a uniform tension throughout a diaphragms excursion.  Do any driver technologies benefit from such a principle?

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

If you look at this picture here, then that will explain some of it: http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=Imagesc03280nl1.jpg
As you see, there is a trace printed on it (adds weight of course), and it is tensioned at the edges. The driver in the picture is tensioned in the middle as well.

 

[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

The wood doesn't resonate.  Waterfall plots objectively prove that and my ears subjectively confirm it.

I have the LCD-2 in my head right now, and I completely agree, there is no resonance whatsoever chassis-wise (at least up to 90 db). I was wondering if the weight of the whole headphones has something to do with that? Personally, I think so, since the weight seems to help considerably to mitigate any vibration and/or any other chassis effects.

 

[Canadian411]

After all these reviews and discussions it's all clear to me pros and cons of LCD2 and HD800.
 
I made a final decision to get HD800 because I hate paypal.

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

If you look at this picture here, then that will explain some of it: http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=Imagesc03280nl1.jpg
As you see, there is a trace printed on it (adds weight of course), and it is tensioned at the edges. The driver in the picture is tensioned in the middle as well.

Cheers.

 

 

[InnerSpace]

Quote:

Its obvious to me that a voice coil driver is spring loaded to return to its "neutral" position...just check any speaker driver.  This would mean that the acceleration rate is resisted when the driver is compressing air and assisted when decompressing air, via the spring loaded voice coil - the forces involved are not at all uniform during the diaphragms travel.
 
I wonder how a planar knows its center rest position.  Is it also guided by spring tension...which I don't see in any pictures...or is it just via the static magnetic field?  I could imagine the benefits of a uniform tension throughout a diaphragms excursion.  Do any driver technologies benefit from such a principle?

The LCD-2 diaphragm is edge-clamped by hard potting compound between the magnets, reinforced by seven bolts.  It moves like a trampoline, basically.

 

[InnerSpace]

Quote:

The wood doesn't resonate.  Waterfall plots objectively prove that and my ears subjectively confirm it.

If you separate the wooden hoop and hang it by the wires and tap it with a screwdriver, it "clonks" like a wind chime.  Native frequency is about 400 hz, and decay is about a second.