[SP Wild]

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How long did it take between the HD650 and the HD800?

The headphone market landscape has changed significantly since the days of the HD650/K701/DT880.  I think STAX was very wise to release a new flagship in this current condition - they're reading the market correctly IMO.  $1400 for a HD800 in a market that generally favours sound quality as the highest priority is OK...providing headphones that are cheaper don't walk away with the accolades.  I like Senheisser in general, and I find the HD800 to be the best conventional dynamic I've ever heard on a purely objective and technical level. 
 
But honestly...I applaud Audeze.  The new HE-6 has entered a sub segment with numerous competitors.  The LCD2 entered a sub segment where it's natural competitor is the HD600/HD650 - I LMAO at this signal checkmate move.  Talk about reading the conditions perfectly and catching Sennheiser with its pants down...neglecting its core customer base.

 

[Badd99]

Has anyone thought of the price difference? I mean where not even talking about a hundred dollars between the LCD-2 and the hd800's. As someone who is now in line to buy the LCD-2 after selling my RS-1's, the price plays a huge roll. If they even sounded the exact same, who wouldn't wan to spend less? I feel this is greatly overlooked here thus far...

 

[dallan]

I don't know that i would buy the LCD2 over the HD650 even and they can be had for just over $300.(I paid $350. years ago).  Now there is a price difference too.

 

[SP Wild]

The LCD2 is not just cheaper...it is significantly cheaper.  There are a few people, myself included, that feel for significantly cheaper product...the LCD2 is on a more technically proficient level.  I.E they are closer to the STAX technical benchmarks than Senns own dynamic benchmark.
 
The only real relation we can relate price is in build quality...the LCD2 coming off with a handcrafted feel and the HD800 with a precision assembly line feel.  In a market where sound quality is the highest priority...followed closely by price, and people wonder why Audeze is gathering new fanboys left right and center and why this particular "FOTM" won't go away after a year of hype.
 
But, I really like the HD800...when I EQ 2-4 db away from the offending treble ranges...it hits my sweet spot.  But the LCD2 does it better and cheaper, without EQ.  I find people who don't like HD650 do not see the point in paying more for a LCD2...but for those of us that love the HD650...the LCD2s are more than worth it.  Not just because there is no other choice.

 

[Jibbie]

I really need to hear the LCD-2, or the HE-6 for that matter.

 

[pp312]

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But honestly...I applaud Audeze.  The new HE-6 has entered a sub segment with numerous competitors.  The LCD2 entered a sub segment where it's natural competitor is the HD600/HD650 - I LMAO at this signal checkmate move.  Talk about reading the conditions perfectly and catching Sennheiser with its pants down...neglecting its core customer base.

Really? I can import a HD650 here in Oz for $375, whereas an LCD-2 will cost me around $1000 with shipping. Personally I still see Sennheiser as having its pants tightly around its waist.

 

[SP Wild]

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But honestly...I applaud Audeze.  The new HE-6 has entered a sub segment with numerous competitors.  The LCD2 entered a sub segment where it's natural competitor is the HD600/HD650 - I LMAO at this signal checkmate move.  Talk about reading the conditions perfectly and catching Sennheiser with its pants down...neglecting its core customer base.

Really? I can import a HD650 here in Oz for $375, whereas an LCD-2 will cost me around $1000 with shipping. Personally I still see Sennheiser as having its pants tightly around its waist.

I know you're real passionate about the HD650...I was just as passionate as you are.  But the HD650 is playing in yesteryear.  I hope you can make it to the Sydney meet, I'd like to be able to let you try out the LCD2s...I'm happy to bring my HD650s for you to compare.  The HD800, competes with todays state of the art...it is a $1000 premium over the HD650 - I still preferred the HD650s gentler approach to treble.
 
What I mean was that I found it cruel for me personally, that Sen developed such an advanced driver building my hopes for a superseded HD650...only to be left confused after auditioning such a fantastic HD800...but with a treble that drove me insane.  I had the money...no problems...I paid 1.7k for the D7000s instead of 2k for the HD800...then another 1k for to Audeze...Senn saw none of that money I had that was being burned...looking for the HD650 successor.  I was quite happy to put it into Audeze's pockets.  Still, I'm quite happy the ways things turned out or else I would have no clue about planar magnetic technology and how a 70 dollar T50 planar could walk all over the HD650 as well.
 
This coming from a Sennheiser fanboy that I am.

 

[nigeljames]

 
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I find people who don't like HD650 do not see the point in paying more for a LCD2...but for those of us that love the HD650...the LCD2s are more than worth it.  Not just because there is no other choice.

Absolutely agree.
 
The LCD-2's are in a totally different universe to the HD650's 

 

[vrln]

The HD 800 is definately not mass produced like the HD 650, it´s hand assembled at Sennheiser HQ. That´s one of the main reasons for the price too. I think it´s inevitable that a HD 850 or maybe a 700-series will be out in the near future taking full advantage of the HD 800 R&D (especially the ring drivers). There´s plenty of customer demand for a real HD 650 successor, I wouldn´t be suprised if it would happen in a year or two. I´d bet my money on a 700 range though, that would be slightly inferior to the HD 800 in most things, but have a treble rolloff like the HD 650. That wouldn´t cannibalize HD 800 sales that much.
 
SP Wild: agreed, the HD 800 does so many things perfectly and unlike any other headphone. To me the treble peak is a tragedy. Even though I prefer the LCD-2 by far to the HD 800, I´d buy a HD 850 or 750 in a heartbeat...

 

[pp312]

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But honestly...I applaud Audeze.  The new HE-6 has entered a sub segment with numerous competitors.  The LCD2 entered a sub segment where it's natural competitor is the HD600/HD650 - I LMAO at this signal checkmate move.  Talk about reading the conditions perfectly and catching Sennheiser with its pants down...neglecting its core customer base.

Really? I can import a HD650 here in Oz for $375, whereas an LCD-2 will cost me around $1000 with shipping. Personally I still see Sennheiser as having its pants tightly around its waist.

I know you're real passionate about the HD650...I was just as passionate as you are.  But the HD650 is playing in yesteryear.  I hope you can make it to the Sydney meet, I'd like to be able to let you try out the LCD2s...I'm happy to bring my HD650s for you to compare.  The HD800, competes with todays state of the art...it is a $1000 premium over the HD650 - I still preferred the HD650s gentler approach to treble.
 
What I mean was that I found it cruel for me personally, that Sen developed such an advanced driver building my hopes for a superseded HD650...only to be left confused after auditioning such a fantastic HD800...but with a treble that drove me insane.  I had the money...no problems...I paid 1.7k for the D7000s instead of 2k for the HD800...then another 1k for to Audeze...Senn saw none of that money I had that was being burned...looking for the HD650 successor.  I was quite happy to put it into Audeze's pockets.  Still, I'm quite happy the ways things turned out or else I would have no clue about planar magnetic technology and how a 70 dollar T50 planar could walk all over the HD650 as well.
 
This coming from a Sennheiser fanboy that I am.

I wouldn't say I was passionate about the 650; if so I wouldn't have given the Audeze a sideways glance. It just happens to be the most satisfying phone I've ever owned--in fact, one of the few I can stand to listen to. I'm quite happy to concede that the LCD-2 is superior (though not in a different universe, as someone else claimed--down boy); but I've already decided I'd never buy one due to construction and other small technical problems detailed in this and other threads. A phone is more than sound quality; it has to withstand the rigors; it has to be practical. Also, I'm 64 and suffering mild tinnitus. My hearing is okay for my age, but to spend over $1000 on a phone now would leave me racked with guilt even if I were delighted with the result. Later Audeze may get their act together a little more and I may talk myself into it.
 
Not sure what you mean by the 650 is playing in yesteryear. I appreciate that you feel the Audeze is superior...but yesteryear? Methinks hyperbole is creeping in. As for the T50, are you really saying the T50 walks all over the 650? If so, on what kind of music? I listen only to symphonic music, film and classical, and area where the 650 seems to excell. Have you thoroughly auditioned the T50 on this kind of material?
 
I appreciate your comments. I couldn't get these kinds of candid opinions anywhere else. And I fully appreciate the filthy lucre you've spend to arrive at these conclusions: I only wish I were so well-heeled.  

 

[SP Wild]

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But honestly...I applaud Audeze.  The new HE-6 has entered a sub segment with numerous competitors.  The LCD2 entered a sub segment where it's natural competitor is the HD600/HD650 - I LMAO at this signal checkmate move.  Talk about reading the conditions perfectly and catching Sennheiser with its pants down...neglecting its core customer base.

Really? I can import a HD650 here in Oz for $375, whereas an LCD-2 will cost me around $1000 with shipping. Personally I still see Sennheiser as having its pants tightly around its waist.

I know you're real passionate about the HD650...I was just as passionate as you are.  But the HD650 is playing in yesteryear.  I hope you can make it to the Sydney meet, I'd like to be able to let you try out the LCD2s...I'm happy to bring my HD650s for you to compare.  The HD800, competes with todays state of the art...it is a $1000 premium over the HD650 - I still preferred the HD650s gentler approach to treble.
 
What I mean was that I found it cruel for me personally, that Sen developed such an advanced driver building my hopes for a superseded HD650...only to be left confused after auditioning such a fantastic HD800...but with a treble that drove me insane.  I had the money...no problems...I paid 1.7k for the D7000s instead of 2k for the HD800...then another 1k for to Audeze...Senn saw none of that money I had that was being burned...looking for the HD650 successor.  I was quite happy to put it into Audeze's pockets.  Still, I'm quite happy the ways things turned out or else I would have no clue about planar magnetic technology and how a 70 dollar T50 planar could walk all over the HD650 as well.
 
This coming from a Sennheiser fanboy that I am.

I wouldn't say I was passionate about the 650; if so I wouldn't have given the Audeze a sideways glance. It just happens to be the most satisfying phone I've ever owned--in fact, one of the few I can stand to listen to. I'm quite happy to concede that the LCD-2 is superior (though not in a different universe, as someone else claimed--down boy); but I've already decided I'd never buy one due to construction and other small technical problems detailed in this and other threads. A phone is more than sound quality; it has to withstand the rigors; it has to be practical. Also, I'm 64 and suffering mild tinnitus. My hearing is okay for my age, but to spend over $1000 on a phone now would leave me racked with guilt even if I were delighted with the result. Later Audeze may get their act together a little more and I may talk myself into it.
 
Not sure what you mean by the 650 is playing in yesteryear. I appreciate that you feel the Audeze is superior...but yesteryear? Methinks hyperbole is creeping in. As for the T50, are you really saying the T50 walks all over the 650? If so, on what kind of music? I listen only to symphonic music, film and classical, and area where the 650 seems to excell. Have you thoroughly auditioned the T50 on this kind of material?
 
I appreciate your comments. I couldn't get these kinds of candid opinions anywhere else. And I fully appreciate the filthy lucre you've spend to arrive at these conclusions: I only wish I were so well-heeled.  

OK...the T50 doesn't entirely "walk all over" the HD650...there are still things the HD650 does better than the T50...such as cup resonance control, imaging and soundstaging (Check out the T50 thread for the mod tips to overcome these issues).  But the T50 does indeed have a higher resolution than the HD650...very noticeable in trebles, where the T50 can very clearly define cymbals, and hi-hats where the HD650 falters, but like the HD650 the treble isn't peaky either.  Like the LCD2, the T50 manages a higher resolution without resorting to treble trickery, I believe its an advantage of planar magnetic technology.  Both have a correct tonality to my ears and it depends on what an individual finds more pleasing...those that favor dimensionality will prefer HD650, those that prefer definition will prefer T50....in fact, if I didn't believe in a 1K headphone, I would own both 650 and T50 as they are both correct in their own ways.  Without modding the T50...the HD650 might just prove the more capable can, but I think for 70 dollars imported to Australia, its a decision you can make with your own ears. 
 
Until I heard magnetic planar technology, like you, I felt of all the cans I heard the HD650 was the one...this included after paying 1.7K for the D7000 which after a few weeks of ownership made me appreciate the HD650s more so.  This includes possessing the HD800 for a couple of months to find I preferred the HD650 more...whilst acknowledging the HD800 was superior, but that treble spike ruined it for me.  Even with the T50...the HD650 still had strengths.  So, after all these travels, having found my can that is deserving of yet another 3 grand worth of equipment to drive it...not counting the 8 grands worth invested in the HD650 to drive them...3 grand went into clean power alone.  I stand firm, the HD650 is yesteryear, as in yesterdays flagship...and I have to apologise for the colorful language, I am less than half your age and you must excuse the exuberance that comes through on many of my posts.  But like I say...the HD650 started this insane money burning fetish for me.
 

 
Now that I think about it...all the money spent, I could have bought the STAX O2s and a Blue Hawaii and called it a day.
 
Also, I think everyone should notice that the HD650 appreciation thread is as strong as it ever was...whilst the DT880 and K701 threads aren't as strong.  The HD650 is still the can pulling in new head-fi'ers more than any other can...yes, I know the might of the Sennheiser name has a lot to do with this phenomena as well.

 

[Dibster]

Forgetting about amplitude levels on frequency response curves that can be EQ'd out, does the HD-800 have a _well defined_ treble?

 

[sokolov91]

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Forgetting about amplitude levels on frequency response curves that can be EQ'd out, does the HD-800 have a _well defined_ treble?

Yup, the HD 800's strongest suit is surely the mids to the highs which are a little emphasized but crystal clear.
 
The bass however extends flat to 20 hz and is a vast improvement over last gen dynamic headphones.
 
I feel the LCD-2 are more revealing -even in the treble (not sure why) but it is definitely much quieter treble on the LCD-2. Bass on the LCD-2 is peerless IMO, and the mids are spot on.
 
The HD 800 OTOH are much comfier, prettier imo, better build, and will sound better to people who like treble a lot.

 

[rgs9200m]

I think my LCD2s sound far different than my 650s. The LCDs are much more resolving and are way more fluid than the Senns, which can be a little dry in comparison.
Vocals on the LCDs are rounded and silky, but a bit flat and opaque on the Senns. The LCD vocals also seem to have more character, meaning you can hear how a singer changes
or adjusts his or her voice while singing or moves around the microphone, and the Senns just don't get down to that level.
The 650s always just left something out compared to highly resolving speakers like Wilsons, but the LCDs do flesh things out (tonality, spatial info)
but still don't sound harsh.
 
I think the similarity is that they don't have piercing highs like a lot of other phones do, and both maybe even cover up some aggressive upper-mids and highs,
but the Senns lose detail when doing that, but the LCDs really don't.
 
In short, I think both may have similar frequency response patterns, but the LCDs have more reach.

 

[coolcat]

I think it is very easy to compare these two headphones,because there is nothing to compare here.
They are so different and one should own them both.