[Chodorovski]

I have a chance to try my LCD-3s at a place that sells Woo Audio amps. Does anyone know if any of the Woo amps are particularly good or bad on the 3s?

 

[astrostar59]

It's easy to perceive distinct differences between gear if you don't have quick A/B switching and matching of volume and music segments. Even after doing that type of A/B comparison of the Mojo and Hugo 2 (5x price difference) and not being able to hear a difference, I still sometimes think I hear a difference between them in normal casual listening. But if I go back to A/B, the difference goes away again. It's possible that A/B comparison has its own flaws (short music segments, high level of conscious attention interfering with subconscious processes, reliance on memory for comparison, etc.) and that there are really differences we can hear in normal casual listening, but I think it's likely that many of the differences we think we hear between DACs, amps, and cables are "in our heads" rather than in the gear. But no doubt that differences between headphones are substantial, and for me those differences justify spending more on expensive headphones.

Respect your experiences. I find it is more marked, no idea why. Last year, while I had the Audio Note DAC 5, I had in the house the Chord DAVE, CH Precision C1 DAC, Naim CD555, Lampizator Golden Gate, AMR DP-777, MSB Platinum IV inc Signature power base. I must say all these DACs sounded quite different. In fact they all had strengths and weaknesses, not many have it all good however. My last DAC was the Aries Cerat Kassandra, and that has all of it, not subtle either. Biggest thing was the soundstage and huge dynamics and depth of the details, all without any hint of 'digital sound'. Demoing on speakers as well during this process helped as well. But on my then Stax 009 and Carbon amp, it was quite obvious the different in sound signature TBH.

 

[Povell42]

I would believe with all that expensive gear would make a big difference in being able to discern any differences.


Here is my humble setup:

 

[astrostar59]

I would believe with all that expensive gear would make a big difference in being able to discern any differences.


Here is my humble setup:

Nice LCD3 there. And your amp is nice and compact, like it.
I am i two minds about high end headphones, whether we can hear more differences with them in a source or the detail in the music, than a good speaker setup. The soundstage IS better in a good speaker, imaging is more 3D both depth and height. But here is where it gets more complicated, I am convinced I hear more micro detail going on, more stuff in the deeper layers of sound in complex music. HPs just seem to bring it all into more focus. So IMO a top HP and amp can effectively outperform a 50K+ speaker, if we ignore the soundstage aspect. Food for thought. In other words we can get to a 200K speaker system quality for less than 10K on headphones, not bad!

 

[gLer]

I have a chance to try my LCD-3s at a place that sells Woo Audio amps. Does anyone know if any of the Woo amps are particularly good or bad on the 3s?

Avoid the OTLs. The LCD-3 sucks on the WA3 for example.

 

[Povell42]

Avoid the OTLs. The LCD-3 sucks on the WA3 for example.

So you suggest sticking to OPT tube amps? I found that from a google search - haha. I do not know much about tube amps other than the basics. I have noticed it is not always specified as to OTL, OPT.... how do you know?

Also are there other types of tube amps other than OTL and OPT?

 

[hawkwindx]

So you suggest sticking to OPT tube amps? I found that from a google search - haha. I do not know much about tube amps other than the basics. I dont know the difference between them much. I have noticed it is not always specificed as to OTL, OPt.... how do you know?

Also are there other types of tube amps other than OTL and OPT?

I don’t know the answer to your questions, but I hope you are able to try all of the Woo Audio amps with your LCD-3’s and share your personal opinions and experiences with us.

 

[Chodorovski]

Avoid the OTLs. The LCD-3 sucks on the WA3 for example.

I saw this earlier. Wish I knew more about tubes. I should go back and study electrical engineering from some 80-year-old textbooks to figure out what the hell is going on.

Anyway I've been looking at this https://audeze.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001679626-Headphone-Amp-Suggestions
which suggests the WA-6SE as a good fit

 

[Povell42]

So IMO a top HP and amp can effectively outperform a 50K+ speaker, if we ignore the soundstage aspect. Food for thought. In other words we can get to a 200K speaker system quality for less than 10K on headphones, not bad!

Yes, I agree with this train of thought. I went into a high end audio shop last year when I was looking to demo the LCD lineup. I realized that the $2000 LCD3 headphone was cheap in comparison to the speaker setup equipment he sold. The owner stated something similar to what you said - that a high-end headphones was like an expensive audio setup compacted into an cheaper package. You could buy a few high end headphones, that have a very different sonic signature, a good DAC & AMP, and still spend less then just a pair of high-end speakers. It is obviously much harder to change out speakers for a specific song or album. Headphones are pretty amazing in that way. Create a playlist specific for your LCD3, another for you HD800... etc.

If i remember correctly, some of the speakers he sold were like $15k+ each. This perspective helped me to appreciate headphones in a new way.

 

[gLer]

So you suggest sticking to OPT tube amps? I found that from a google search - haha. I do not know much about tube amps other than the basics. I have noticed it is not always specified as to OTL, OPT.... how do you know?

Also are there other types of tube amps other than OTL and OPT?

To be honest I don’t know what OPT is. I believe tube amps are classed - at least in part - by the type of transformers they have. So an OTL is an ‘ output transformerless’ tube amp, while a SET amp is a ‘single ended triode’ amp. I’m not sure exactly how or why not having a transformer affects the sound, but I do know OTL amps are best suited for high impedance (300 ohm-plus) headphones. The LCD-3 is on the cusp (110 ohms) but still in my experience suffers on OTL amps (at least entry level ones).

 

[gLer]

To be perfectly frank my knowledge of tube amps is limited to the time I have to fiddle and fuss with yet another link in the audio chain. It’s hard enough finding the right headphone for your music, then you have to worry about proper amping (with synergy - that’s fun), then the differences between dacs, maybe a cable or two, USB noise (or lack thereof), power supplies...

Throw in tubes and you’re looking at an even deeper rabbit hole all on its own, that potentially changes everything else you’ve just spent months or years perfecting based on swapping out little glass tubes (the best of which are very expensive and have a limited lifespan). And all you want to do is listen to great music done right.

For me tubes are like walking into a restaurant where they serve your favorite dish, and the waiter says to you: “today you can have your dish served in 300 different ways, on 20 different plates, in five different rooms, oh... and you get to try swap out the ingredients as well. Twice.”

For me, the LCD-3 with a great solid state amp and R2R dac is just about perfect for how I like my music presented. Same setup works well for other headphones on a daily basis too (Elear being my current favourite). Why would I want to go mess that up playing around with dozens of different configurations? Just my 0.02 and YMMV. Strength to you if you’re still on your journey and your wallet is still breathing

 

[Povell42]

To be perfectly frank my knowledge of tube amps is limited to the time I have to fiddle and fuss with yet another link in the audio chain. It’s hard enough finding the right headphone for your music, then you have to worry about proper amping (with synergy - that’s fun), then the differences between dacs, maybe a cable or two, USB noise (or lack thereof), power supplies...

Throw in tubes and you’re looking at an even deeper rabbit hole all on its own, that potentially changes everything else you’ve just spent months or years perfecting based on swapping out little glass tubes (the best of which are very expensive and have a limited lifespan). And all you want to do is listen to great music done right.

For me tubes are like walking into a restaurant where they serve your favorite dish, and the waiter says to you: “today you can have your dish served in 300 different ways, on 20 different plates, in five different rooms, oh... and you get to try swap out the ingredients as well. Twice.”

For me, the LCD-3 with a great solid state amp and R2R dac is just about perfect for how I like my music presented. Same setup works well for other headphones on a daily basis too (Elear being my current favourite). Why would I want to go mess that up playing around with dozens of different configurations? Just my 0.02 and YMMV. Strength to you if you’re still on your journey and your wallet is still breathing

Thanks for the clarification. Your comment did open a little rabbit-hole for me in a way... I was already having issues on just deciding on a tube amp, and then all of the sudden I realized there was "300 different ways, on 20 different plates, in five different rooms" to choose from. HAHA. I value your opinion and see that OTL amps are generally for higher impedance headphones rather then ohms of the LCD3. Thank you for the insight and advice. I didn't mean to drag your comment through my OCD behavior this hobby gives me sometimes. HAHA.

 

[Chodorovski]

I just got back from testing amps at Stereo Exchange in NYC. Highly recommend that place if you're nearby. The guy was super nice and they had plenty of stuff to try. I even got to try the Orpheus 2

Anyway, I don't think I've ever heard it talked about here but I really liked the Hafler HA75. It has a 12AX7 in it and a feedback knob that lets you add or subtract tube-business to taste. I was tinkering with the tube feedback, focus (crossfeed) and 3-way bass boost the whole time from song to song. It felt a little cheat-y but I really liked being able to selectively fill out some songs that would otherwise feel thin. The LCD-3 is so much different than the Clear and the HD800s, which I was A-B-C testing on the same setup, I think it was really nice to be able to further that with this amp.

Also tried the Rogue Audio RH5, which sounded great. Better than what I own and better than the Hafler, but probably too expensive for me at $2,500. Really even and clear.

 

[gLer]

I just got back from testing amps at Stereo Exchange in NYC. Highly recommend that place if you're nearby. The guy was super nice and they had plenty of stuff to try. I even got to try the Orpheus 2

Anyway, I don't think I've ever heard it talked about here but I really liked the Hafler HA75. It has a 12AX7 in it and a feedback knob that lets you add or subtract tube-business to taste. I was tinkering with the tube feedback, focus (crossfeed) and 3-way bass boost the whole time from song to song. It felt a little cheat-y but I really liked being able to selectively fill out some songs that would otherwise feel thin. The LCD-3 is so much different than the Clear and the HD800s, which I was A-B-C testing on the same setup, I think it was really nice to be able to further that with this amp.

Also tried the Rogue Audio RH5, which sounded great. Better than what I own and better than the Hafler, but probably too expensive for me at $2,500. Really even and clear.

Nice impressions. Would be interesting to hear more specific thoughts on the LCD-3 vs Clear.

 

[Chodorovski]

Nice impressions. Would be interesting to hear more specific thoughts on the LCD-3 vs Clear.

I don't honestly think I'd be a good baseline for comparing, now that I think about it. I seem to be way more sensitive to highs than other people, so both the Clear and the HD800s sounded almost shrill to me. Also when switching back and forth, the LCD-3's like warm hug of bass response makes the other two seem so much less enjoyable for me. I've never heard either pair on like a specifically recommended amp, so maybe they both just don't cooperate with the Hafler, I don't know. For me personally, no doubt I made the right choice on the Audeze