[droopy1592]

Oh man this is hard. I have some LCD3fs and LCD 2.2s and before break In (and I don't believe in break in) I was ready to give up on the 3f. But I let it play some tracks for two days unattended and I come back to some silky smooth masterpieces. Sounds like a cleaner 2.2 with less grit but also less ethereal. Someone said that before and it made no sense but after listening to both it does. I'm liking the better detail of the 3f and while not as buttery smooth as the 2.2 it is still like honey just thin honey with a dab of butter. I feel like stepping in the LCdx would be a step too far towards hd800 territory. I like the audeze sound.

 

[MRC001]

...
I'm liking the better detail of the 3f and while not as buttery smooth as the 2.2 it is still like honey just thin honey with a dab of butter. I feel like stepping in the LCdx would be a step too far towards hd800 territory. I like the audeze sound.

The LCD-X is brighter sounding than the 2F or 3F but it's nothing like the HD-800. The 800 rolls off the low bass and has a big noticeable spike at 6-8 kHz. And I mean BIG - around 6-8 kHz is elevated from +6 to +9 dB from the midrange depending on how you compare it. Having a big response spike right in a frequency range the human ear is very sensitive is a huge flaw for any transducer that is supposed to be "high fidelity". Its sound is not the real thing, but a caricature of it.
 
The HD-800 is super-detailed, but to my ears it's artificial detail created by a uneven response. Its voicing of natural sounds is not at all realistic. I understand why professional engineers like its analytical sound to amplify every little detail in the music. But it sounds so unnatural and fatiguing there's no way I could ever enjoy music on it. It's also a harder load for an amp to drive with impedance & phase changing significantly across the frequency range. That's typical of any conventional driver.
 
It's true that you can hear the difference between amps more on the 800 than the X. Some people say this means the 800 is more revealing. But that's not necessarily true. Amps sound more different simply because the 800 is a harder load to drive, some amps are not up to snuff, so they have more distortion driving the 800 than they do with an easier load like the X. So the difference you're hearing is more distortion on the 800 coming from some amps, not higher resolution or detail.
 
In comparison, the X is is about as close to perfectly neutral as I've ever heard or seen in a headphone. The X does favor high frequencies, but it's just a subtle amount, perhaps 1-2 dB and broadly spread across the entire HF range, so it sounds very natural and doesn't impair realistic voicing of natural sounds. Also the Audeze and other orthos are very easy to drive, a purely resistive load with the same impedance & phase across the entire frequency range. So you'll have more choices for amps to drive it and get the best sound from whatever amp you pick.
 
To my ears, the LCD-X has all the detail of the HD-800, but it doesn't jump out and grab out. You have to listen for it. But that's what makes it so natural sounding - that's what sounds in the real world actually sound like.

 

[droopy1592]

The LCD-X is brighter sounding than the 2F or 3F but it's nothing like the HD-800. The 800 rolls off the low bass and has a big noticeable spike at 6-8 kHz. And I mean BIG - around 6-8 kHz is elevated from +6 to +9 dB from the midrange depending on how you compare it. Having a big response spike right in a frequency range the human ear is very sensitive is a huge flaw for any transducer that is supposed to be "high fidelity". Its sound is not the real thing, but a caricature of it.

The HD-800 is super-detailed, but to my ears it's artificial detail created by a uneven response. Its voicing of natural sounds is not at all realistic. I understand why professional engineers like its analytical sound to amplify every little detail in the music. But it sounds so unnatural and fatiguing there's no way I could ever enjoy music on it. It's also a harder load for an amp to drive with impedance & phase changing significantly across the frequency range. That's typical of any conventional driver.

It's true that you can hear the difference between amps more on the 800 than the X. Some people say this means the 800 is more revealing. But that's not necessarily true. Amps sound more different simply because the 800 is a harder load to drive, some amps are not up to snuff, so they have more distortion driving the 800 than they do with an easier load like the X. So the difference you're hearing is more distortion on the 800 coming from some amps, not higher resolution or detail.

In comparison, the X is is about as close to perfectly neutral as I've ever heard or seen in a headphone. The X does favor high frequencies, but it's just a subtle amount, perhaps 1-2 dB and broadly spread across the entire HF range, so it sounds very natural and doesn't impair realistic voicing of natural sounds. Also the Audeze and other orthos are very easy to drive, a purely resistive load with the same impedance & phase across the entire frequency range. So you'll have more choices for amps to drive it and get the best sound from whatever amp you pick.

To my ears, the LCD-X has all the detail of the HD-800, but it doesn't jump out and grab out. You have to listen for it. But that's what makes it so natural sounding - that's what sounds in the real world actually sound like.

How far from 3f is it in overall soundstage and bass performance. I don't want to waste the resources trying if it's not much different than the 3f. Is it as much as a change as the 2.2 prefazor to the 3f?

 

[Lohb]

 it (3F) is still like honey just thin honey with a dab of butter.

Haha, I love impression descriptions like that.
 
My 2.1s are "The deepest darkest chocolate with a dash of coffee & cream."

 

[MRC001]

How far from 3f is it in overall soundstage and bass performance. I don't want to waste the resources trying if it's not much different than the 3f. Is it as much as a change as the 2.2 prefazor to the 3f?

To my ears, the 3F and 2F as closer to each other than either is to the X. The 3F is a more refined version of the 2F while the X had a different more neutral sound.

 

[marcan]

Oh man this is hard. I have some LCD3fs and LCD 2.2s and before break In (and I don't believe in break in) I was ready to give up on the 3f. But I let it play some tracks for two days unattended and I come back to some silky smooth masterpieces. Sounds like a cleaner 2.2 with less grit but also less ethereal. Someone said that before and it made no sense but after listening to both it does. I'm liking the better detail of the 3f and while not as buttery smooth as the 2.2 it is still like honey just thin honey with a dab of butter. I feel like stepping in the LCdx would be a step too far towards hd800 territory. I like the audeze sound.

I had exactly the same feeling when comparing the lcd2.2 with a the lcd3f (early 2016). The lcd3f  while being a bit clearer was lacking the warm and foundation that the LCD2.2 have.
HoweverI tried the first version of LCD3 and it was for me better than my lcd2.2.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Oh man this is hard. I have some LCD3fs and LCD 2.2s and before break In (and I don't believe in break in) I was ready to give up on the 3f. But I let it play some tracks for two days unattended and I come back to some silky smooth masterpieces. Sounds like a cleaner 2.2 with less grit but also less ethereal. Someone said that before and it made no sense but after listening to both it does. I'm liking the better detail of the 3f and while not as buttery smooth as the 2.2 it is still like honey just thin honey with a dab of butter. I feel like stepping in the LCdx would be a step too far towards hd800 territory. I like the audeze sound.

You still can't assume that break-in exists based on what you described as you didn't eliminate the possibility of expectation bias. Just because you weren't listening for the two days in no way does that rule out that you believed/hoped the end result would be improved sound. Why else did you go through the exercise if you didn't at least hope it would improve the sound?

 

[droopy1592]

  You still can't assume that break-in exists based on what you described as you didn't eliminate the possibility of expectation bias. Just because you weren't listening for the two days in no way does that rule out that you believed/hoped the end result would be improved sound. Why else did you go through the exercise if you didn't at least hope it would improve the sound?

I was expecting to sell them and keep the 2.2pre fazor. I actually wanted to because I was going to make $400 since I got them for such a steal on craigslist. Brand new! I went in with pessimism and negativity and not believing in break in. Highs were flat and hard (compared to the 2.2 and in general), turned into slightly more present detail and silk. No my ears didn't adjust, I didn't touch them for two days as they played on their own. On the other hand, the 560s sound exactly the same now as the day I bought them and so do the pm3s. The LCD3fs were different though. 

 

[Sonic Defender]

  I was expecting to sell them and keep the 2.2pre fazor. I actually wanted to because I was going to make $400 since I got them for such a steal on craigslist. Brand new! I went in with pessimism and negativity and not believing in break in. Highs were flat and hard (compared to the 2.2 and in general), turned into slightly more present detail and silk. No my ears didn't adjust, I didn't touch them for two days as they played on their own. On the other hand, the 560s sound exactly the same now as the day I bought them and so do the pm3s. The LCD3fs were different though. 

I don't want to go to sound science forum OT, but this is an important distinction that can help newer members decide how they investigate such things, if they even care.You would only bother doing burn-in if there was a seed of doubt, otherwise you would have been knowingly wasting two days of time you could have been enjoying the headphone. What is to be evaluated isn't that you had a great deal of doubt, that I can accept; however, that doesn't change the fact that you had some hope or else you wouldn't have bothered, and it is that faint hope that could easily have influenced your perception.

 

[Nicholasheadfi2]

I just recently purchased my lcd2 and man these headphones are awesome , I paired them with the schiit audio Asgard 2
And the iBasso dx80 via the line out .
My question or problem is the bass via the line out is petty low and expected the low end to be a bit better, but as we know you
Cant eq through line out .
I switched to the headphone out and now I can adjust the lower frequency's on the eq which to my ears sounds much better.
The line out is cleaner tho and just wanted to know what would be the better solution to use the line out with better results
In the bass department , maybe use an apple mac for my source and purchase a separate dac altogether or maybe a better amp
With better low end .
Your guys opinion would be appreciated
Thank you .

 

[Jamal82]

I hope i won't be opening a can of worms, being a new member and all that, but...
 
What are your thoughts on cable upgrade for a LCD2.2 ?
 
At this moment i am using them with 2 DACs (micro IDAC2 and FIIO X7) -> WA6 SE upgraded with 6EM7 and Sophia.
 
Asking mainly because i've seen forum member mentioning the forza audioworks cable and after visiting their website i am a bit (more) tempted by their Noir HPC MK2, but at 200euros for 2m is not cheap...

 

[Aida]

  I hope i won't be opening a can of worms, being a new member and all that, but...
 
What are your thoughts on cable upgrade for a LCD2.2 ?
 
At this moment i am using them with 2 DACs (micro IDAC2 and FIIO X7) -> WA6 SE upgraded with 6EM7 and Sophia.
 
Asking mainly because i've seen forum member mentioning the forza audioworks cable and after visiting their website i am a bit (more) tempted by their Noir HPC MK2, but at 200euros for 2m is not cheap...

 
The original cable felt a bit stiff so I upgraded to a CustomCans cable for 79 euros. It feels much better and has really nice build quality. Didn't change the sound though so without auditioning I definitely wouldn't put any more money than this into the cable. 

 

[Sonic Defender]

  I hope i won't be opening a can of worms, being a new member and all that, but...
 
What are your thoughts on cable upgrade for a LCD2.2 ?
 
At this moment i am using them with 2 DACs (micro IDAC2 and FIIO X7) -> WA6 SE upgraded with 6EM7 and Sophia.
 
Asking mainly because i've seen forum member mentioning the forza audioworks cable and after visiting their website i am a bit (more) tempted by their Noir HPC MK2, but at 200euros for 2m is not cheap...

I would take some time and really think about this, go to the sound science forum and ask there as well. The whole idea of cables even being able to change sound is EXTREMELY contested and it is in no way an accepted reality. I'm somewhat neutral in that I haven't tested enough to have a strong opinion one way or the other, but the little experience I had using a high quality Norne Audio litz Solv X cable with my HE 560 didn't change the sound as far as I could tell, but testing is very difficult.
 
Just take your time and make sure to get opinions and experiences from both sides of the debate. If you only hear from people who believe in the changes being real, well, that is all you will hear. Make sure to get as much information as you can and then make the best decision you can with that information, just don't rush into something (unless you have lots of spare money available in which case why not).

 

[droopy1592]

I don't want to go to sound science forum OT, but this is an important distinction that can help newer members decide how they investigate such things, if they even care.You would only bother doing burn-in if there was a seed of doubt, otherwise you would have been knowingly wasting two days of time you could have been enjoying the headphone. What is to be evaluated isn't that you had a great deal of doubt, that I can accept; however, that doesn't change the fact that you had some hope or else you wouldn't have bothered, and it is that faint hope that could easily have influenced your perception.

I leave my modi on all of the time and the magni most of the time. I gave it a shot just to see. I even said I don't believe in burn in and it didn't work on my other phones but keep believing you know the answer. It's not like my background isn't in medicine and before that aviation electronic engineering. I guess you don't think temp can't effect sound either. I really don't care to be honest I KNOW what I heard between two sessions with no listening in between because of my schedule. If you want to get into the science of it we can. I bought the damn things with the plan to sell them anyway because the guy didn't know what he had. If I'm so easily influenced and tricked by my own expectations then I shouldn't have liked them at all.

 

[sludgeogre]

I just recently purchased my lcd2 and man these headphones are awesome , I paired them with the schiit audio Asgard 2
And the iBasso dx80 via the line out .
My question or problem is the bass via the line out is petty low and expected the low end to be a bit better, but as we know you
Cant eq through line out .
I switched to the headphone out and now I can adjust the lower frequency's on the eq which to my ears sounds much better.
The line out is cleaner tho and just wanted to know what would be the better solution to use the line out with better results
In the bass department , maybe use an apple mac for my source and purchase a separate dac altogether or maybe a better amp
With better low end .
Your guys opinion would be appreciated
Thank you .

 
I own the DX80 as well and using the headphone out as a line out results in a huge loss of detail for me. You're not sending the right input voltage to your amp this way as far as I know, someone please correct me. It works, but it doesn't sound right to me. I would suggest buying a Schiit Bifrost Multibit or maybe a Modi Multibit and using the coax output on the DX80. This gives the best results by far as you're able to use the DX80 as a transport and it beats the pants off of using a computer through USB in my opinion. Bass and midrange is much tighter and clear and the background is completely black and silent. No matter what kind of things I try with USB, I can always hear some noise in the background if I turn the volume up on the amp. 
 
Also keep in mind that you might be expecting a lot more bass than the LCD-2 actually puts out. It's not a bass head headphone. It has extremely articulate and slammy bass all the way down to 5 Hz, but it doesn't throw it in your face. You may want to take a while to just listen and see what kinds of new details you can hear in the bass line.
 

  I hope i won't be opening a can of worms, being a new member and all that, but...
 
What are your thoughts on cable upgrade for a LCD2.2 ?
 
At this moment i am using them with 2 DACs (micro IDAC2 and FIIO X7) -> WA6 SE upgraded with 6EM7 and Sophia.
 
Asking mainly because i've seen forum member mentioning the forza audioworks cable and after visiting their website i am a bit (more) tempted by their Noir HPC MK2, but at 200euros for 2m is not cheap...

I think that upgrading to the Noir was worth it for me. It's a gorgeous cable and it's totally indestructible, whereas the stock cable had knicks in it after a year of use for me. The Noir tightens up the bass ever so slightly to my ears, FWIW.