Amps that can drive the HiFiMan HE-6 planar headphones
Mar 3, 2015 at 11:07 AM Post #3,886 of 6,061
Interesting...does the M2 still have a bit of the "crisp" bass that I hear from the J2?  Do they have a different enough flavor  to own both(down the road)?

 


No it does not. the M2 has the typical MOSFET sound, similar to tube. The J2 has the typical JFET sound, if you know what I am talking about.

Please check my later post in this discussion. There are some limitations with the Class-A amps that you may want to think about.
 
Mar 3, 2015 at 11:17 AM Post #3,887 of 6,061
What limitations are you talking about?  The biggest difference would be going with MOSFET or Power JFET.  
 
With the HE-6 and most of the First Watt amps, Class A or Class A/B really doesn't matter as the HE-6 will stay in Class A anyway because of the high bias in Class A.
 
Interesting to see your thoughts.
 
Mar 3, 2015 at 11:44 AM Post #3,888 of 6,061
Despite all their virtues, these Class-A amps seem to share common sonic traits that are not necessarily synergistic with the HE-6: their bass is tight but lacking slightly in impact (too much control or lack of upper-bass overhang?) and the midrange, while ultra smooth and lovely, tend to sound slightly recessed. I should be careful here: the midrange of these amps are so smooth and free of the usual gunk you hear with most amps that, by comparison, they seem not to be as forward sounding. These amps almost seem to be too clean for the HE-6...
 

 
Strangely I am not finding that. The HE-9 which is pure A, at 9 watts has really amazing bass. The same with my Xindak speaker amplifier, which gives some 60 watts into class A. On the speaker amplifier yes, the bass is tighter, but still silly strong bass with the HE-6s. The HE-9 is more forward sounding, the Xindak has a huge soundstage putting the listener a few rows back. If anything both these amps are fantastic with the HE-6s. The same I could not say about the Ragnarok, which has lower class A bias.
 
Nothing too clean here, yet enormously satisfying. But again my present reference for clean & clear sound are the SR-009s.
 
Mar 3, 2015 at 12:00 PM Post #3,889 of 6,061
 
  Interesting...does the M2 still have a bit of the "crisp" bass that I hear from the J2?  Do they have a different enough flavor  to own both(down the road)?

 


No it does not. the M2 has the typical MOSFET sound, similar to tube. The J2 has the typical JFET sound, if you know what I am talking about.

Please check my later post in this discussion. There are some limitations with the Class-A amps that you may want to think about.

I do understand the voltage end of it(JFET using the PN junction whereas MOSFET uses the isolated gate). I have heard fast transient  MOSFET amps and have limited experience with JFET, so I guess my question was posed as brand specific rather then  generalized (knowing you heard both).
 
I thank you for your answer!
 
Mar 3, 2015 at 7:30 PM Post #3,890 of 6,061
I do understand the voltage end of it(JFET using the PN junction whereas MOSFET uses the isolated gate). I have heard fast transient  MOSFET amps and have limited experience with JFET, so I guess my question was posed as brand specific rather then  generalized (knowing you heard both).
 
I thank you for your answer!

 


Just a little clarification of the difference between the M2 and J2 driving the HE-06.

Both are pure Class-A amps with zero negative feedback.

The M2 uses JFET as input into an auto-former that passively amplifies the input voltage. A pair of MOSFET biased into Class-A represent the current gain stage of the amp.

The J2 uses JFET for both input and output in a pure SE Class A mode. These are the new and very powerful JFETs transistors from SemiSouth Corp.

In isolation, both of these amps produce very tight, clean, great sounding bass with the HE-6. But the Pass Aleph or the Threshold Stasis, though less refined, produce more impact.
 
Mar 3, 2015 at 7:46 PM Post #3,891 of 6,061
Just a few more comments about the merits and limitations of Class-A amps driving the HE-6.

My 35 years of dabbling in home stero have left me with many speaker amps. Experimenting with them on the HE-6 led me to a few general understanding of their sound, limited of course To only the amps that I own.

The M2 and J2 are great matches for the HE-6 mostly because of their ultra smooth midrange, micro-details and expansive soundstage, the last two traits in most abundance with the J2. I was told by reliable sources that the F1J performs even better with the HE-6 but it cannot drive speakers with passive crossover which is enough reason for me not to buy it.

Despite all their virtues, these Class-A amps seem to share common sonic traits that are not necessarily synergistic with the HE-6: their bass is tight but lacking slightly in impact (too much control or lack of upper-bass overhang?) and the midrange, while ultra smooth and lovely, tend to sound slightly recessed. I should be careful here: the midrange of these amps are so smooth and free of the usual gunk you hear with most amps that, by comparison, they seem not to be as forward sounding. These amps almost seem to be too clean for the HE-6...

When I switched to Nelson Pass's earlier class-A designs such as his early Pass Aleph 0s or 3 of similar power rating, I hear a definitely bigger impact in the bass and more presence (noise?) in the midrange that make the HE-6 sound more "there" to my ears. The specs on these early amps (including noise floor) are not nearly as good as those of their younger bretherens, but their minor flaws(?) seem to make them better suited for the HE-6. Go figure.

Finally, when I switched to older Pass's amps, such as the Stasis S150 (75 wpc into 8 ohms) and S300 (150 wpc) which are also Class-A but with a sliding bias--some still continue to proclaim that Nelson cheated here--including the new Taiwanese Usher R 1.5 monoblocks using a Stasis design, the bass became positively thunderous. Sure the higher power helps but there is a difference in the quality of the bass that is common to these amps and not shared by their admittedly smaller and purer bred siblings.

All this is my round about way of saying that why the incredibly sound purety of the latest Class-A amps is something worth seeking, it is not a panacea for the HE-6. You are left wanting just a little more bass and more presence in the midrange. I compromised and settle for the slightly less purified sound of the older Stasis design to get more forward presentation and a little more impact in the bass. There are a bunch of Statis amps circulating on eBay, from the S150 (perfect size for the HE-6) to the S300 and S500 ( if you want to melt the HE-6) and the more affordable Nakamichi PA-5 and PA-7, which can always be tweaked to sound more like a Threshold (bigger caps ; higher bias).

But I would stay away from mass-produced receivers/integrated amps by large manufacturers designed to produced great THD and large power rating and always endowed with beautiful front panel to impressed consumers at the expense of the sound. With the exception of the HK775 and HK 870, my foray into the mass-market amps of the 70s and 80s met with rather disappointing results.


I was just asking Darryl on the synergy between the M2 and the HE-6 and your write-up here is just what i need. Thanks for that!
 
Mar 3, 2015 at 7:54 PM Post #3,892 of 6,061
Just a few more comments about the merits and limitations of Class-A amps driving the HE-6.

My 35 years of dabbling in home stero have left me with many speaker amps. Experimenting with them on the HE-6 led me to a few general understanding of their sound, limited of course To only the amps that I own.

The M2 and J2 are great matches for the HE-6 mostly because of their ultra smooth midrange, micro-details and expansive soundstage, the last two traits in most abundance with the J2. I was told by reliable sources that the F1J performs even better with the HE-6 but it cannot drive speakers with passive crossover which is enough reason for me not to buy it.

Despite all their virtues, these Class-A amps seem to share common sonic traits that are not necessarily synergistic with the HE-6: their bass is tight but lacking slightly in impact (too much control or lack of upper-bass overhang?) and the midrange, while ultra smooth and lovely, tend to sound slightly recessed. I should be careful here: the midrange of these amps are so smooth and free of the usual gunk you hear with most amps that, by comparison, they seem not to be as forward sounding. These amps almost seem to be too clean for the HE-6...

When I switched to Nelson Pass's earlier class-A designs such as his early Pass Aleph 0s or 3 of similar power rating, I hear a definitely bigger impact in the bass and more presence (noise?) in the midrange that make the HE-6 sound more "there" to my ears. The specs on these early amps (including noise floor) are not nearly as good as those of their younger bretherens, but their minor flaws(?) seem to make them better suited for the HE-6. Go figure.

Finally, when I switched to older Pass's amps, such as the Stasis S150 (75 wpc into 8 ohms) and S300 (150 wpc) which are also Class-A but with a sliding bias--some still continue to proclaim that Nelson cheated here--including the new Taiwanese Usher R 1.5 monoblocks using a Stasis design, the bass became positively thunderous. Sure the higher power helps but there is a difference in the quality of the bass that is common to these amps and not shared by their admittedly smaller and purer bred siblings.

All this is my round about way of saying that why the incredibly sound purety of the latest Class-A amps is something worth seeking, it is not a panacea for the HE-6. You are left wanting just a little more bass and more presence in the midrange. I compromised and settle for the slightly less purified sound of the older Stasis design to get more forward presentation and a little more impact in the bass. There are a bunch of Statis amps circulating on eBay, from the S150 (perfect size for the HE-6) to the S300 and S500 ( if you want to melt the HE-6) and the more affordable Nakamichi PA-5 and PA-7, which can always be tweaked to sound more like a Threshold (bigger caps ; higher bias).

But I would stay away from mass-produced receivers/integrated amps by large manufacturers designed to produced great THD and large power rating and always endowed with beautiful front panel to impressed consumers at the expense of the sound. With the exception of the HK775 and HK 870, my foray into the mass-market amps of the 70s and 80s met with rather disappointing results.


what sounds good to you is what matters, not whether it checks certain audiophile boxes.
 
Mar 3, 2015 at 8:14 PM Post #3,894 of 6,061
Mar 4, 2015 at 3:32 AM Post #3,897 of 6,061
I think my monoblocks may never get fixed at this rate, and I'm getting tired of having a big stack of gear on my desk. What would you guys recommend for a compact amp? I've already tried the small Nuforce amps and Centrance Dacmini PX, which I thought were good but I needed more. I've tried the Emotiva Mini-X but did not like it, and I wouldn't want to go any larger than that. I don't like the Lyr either. Any thoughts? I'd be open to dac/amp combo units too. I love the sound of the Rag, but that's just toooo big.
 
Mar 4, 2015 at 7:17 AM Post #3,899 of 6,061
I find it comical that our community is so split on the merits of human hearing. The purist says trust your ears. The scientist says you can't trust yourself because you're human. I'm so confused......:wink:
 
Mar 4, 2015 at 8:58 AM Post #3,900 of 6,061
  I think my monoblocks may never get fixed at this rate, and I'm getting tired of having a big stack of gear on my desk. What would you guys recommend for a compact amp? I've already tried the small Nuforce amps and Centrance Dacmini PX, which I thought were good but I needed more. I've tried the Emotiva Mini-X but did not like it, and I wouldn't want to go any larger than that. I don't like the Lyr either. Any thoughts? I'd be open to dac/amp combo units too. I love the sound of the Rag, but that's just toooo big.

As a mini-x user I'm curious as to why you didn't like it?
 

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