[hifimanrookie]

What speaker amps are we talking about here?  

Looks may be deceiving, but the Taurus just don't look the part - IMO..  I've never met a headphone amp yet that drives the HE-6 better than a good speaker amp.  "Never"..  There are ton's of speaker amps out there compared to only a few "good" headphones amps - so it would be heavily favored on the speaker amps side..  

Never???
Then u probably never heard a custom made headphone amp coming (and built by) from the mad brain of Gilbert from Blue Circle Audio...like the 'FLO', a battery powered powerhouse he built for a customer or my PaG with a seperated powersupply (upgradable to extremes, Or as far ur budget stretches, lolz) that has more reserves than a 100w speaker amp..and our amps are just simple and mid range compared to what he is capable of!.. Yeah they are costly! But they do deliver..and no mess about with resistors or speaker tabs..just plug in the dual 3pin xlr's (in my case) and ur ready to go.

 

[cucera]

Sorry hifi, your custom made amp is a speaker amp labeled different. So it just proves the point that speaker amps are the best for HE-6

 

[Velomane]

Well, I'm not prepro, but I have had a mini-x. It does drive the HE-6. But know you can look forward to much better performance.

Truth. I've got the mini-x, but after hearing a pair of Nuforce HA-200's (see here), my listening experience with the mini is filled with envy for what's to come, whatever that may be.

 

[hifimanrookie]

Sorry hifi, your custom made amp is a speaker amp labeled different. So it just proves the point that speaker amps are the best for HE-6

Lolz..thats a first i heard that..so my amp is a speaker amp WITHOUT speaker outs?...

..its a bit confusing now to me..what determines if an amp is a speaker amp or not?

But ur right on one thing about my amp though..its internally totally based on their magical NSL speaker amp, with the preamp board and many other parts directly taken from the production line of the NSL i understand ...so inside its a lighter NSL....so ur half true..let us keep it on that .

 

[purplegoat]

Hi All,
 
Got my HE-6's recently. Yulong DA8 -> Denon PMA-750 -> HE-Adapter
 
If I plug it in single ended out of the DA8 or the HP out of the Denon it sounds bright and lifeless but I'm really really enjoying it out of the adapter (I bought it with upgraded resistors from another Head-Fier).. 
 
Anyway the Denon isn't jaw dropping but I love it and had it handy, but I'm definitely satisfied for now. I wouldn't necessarily recommend tracking down and buying it but if you already have one I'd definitely recommend trying it or purchasing the HE-6's and adapter to try that set up. I haven't heard any of the other TOTL headphones but I feel no need to upgrade past this, I find it tonally neutral and more than I need resolution wise.

 

[gjc11028]

Sorry hifi, your custom made amp is a speaker amp labeled different. So it just proves the point that speaker amps are the best for HE-6

to be fair, i believe that gilbert said he came up with the idea for the NSL when he was thinking about how to design a very low noise headphone amplifier.
 
from an nsl review:  "I started to parallel small-signal op-amps about six or seven years ago, when I first began thinking about making a high-quality headphone amp," Gilbert recounted for me. "I paralleled two and then three and then four, etc. Then I started thinking that if I can parallel four, I should able to parallel one thousand, at least in theory." He stopped at 288, which produce the NSL's 28Wpc. Internal pictures of the amp show blocks of those paralleled op-amps -- they are almost all you can see.

 

[preproman]

Never???
Then u probably never heard a custom made headphone amp coming (and built by) from the mad brain of Gilbert from Blue Circle Audio...like the 'FLO', a battery powered powerhouse he built for a customer or my PaG with a seperated powersupply (upgradable to extremes, Or as far ur budget stretches, lolz) that has more reserves than a 100w speaker amp..and our amps are just simple and mid range compared to what he is capable of!.. Yeah they are costly! But they do deliver..and no mess about with resistors or speaker tabs..just plug in the dual 3pin xlr's (in my case) and ur ready to go.

 
Nope Never.....
 
IIRC your amp is an op-amp based amp with op-amps in the signal path..   If so no thanks - I'll pass.  But I'm sure it sounds very good, I'm just not a fan of op-amps in the signal path.
 
So the big question is have you heard "your" amp directly compared to an all discrete TOTL speaker amp from the likes of Threshold, Nelson Pass, Pass Labs, SimAudio, Audio-gd or our very own Kevin Gilmore - or any High end designer?
 
I've heard op-amp based custom amps, I've rolled op-amps, I've compared op-amp based amps with op-amps in the signal path directly to all discrete amps - many of times.  
 
The truth is - IMO if you heard op-amp based amps with op-amps in the signal path - you heard them all.  Here's why.  In my experience you can have the most powerful power supply and as many watts you wish - if those op-amps are in the signal path - that's what your hearing.  Many people like the sound of op-amps because you can customize the sound.  Sort of like tubes - but not really.
 
Many op-amps carry different sound - that's why rolling op-amps is something people who like that sound do, they can taylor the sound with different op-amps.  
 
Compared "side by side" to a "Good" all discrete amp the op-amp based amp with op-amps in the signal path lacks in transparency and clarity.  From what I've heard..

 

[preproman]

  Prep, will the Emotiva mini X do any justice the 6 at all? That's all I have for the moment so...

 
It's a good starter amp.  There's way more amps that's much better.

 

[gjc11028]

Nope Never.....

IIRC your amp is an op-amp based amp with op-amps in the signal path..   If so no thanks - I'll pass.  But I'm sure it sounds very good, I'm just not a fan of op-amps in the signal path.

So the big question is have you heard "your" amp directly compared to an all discrete TOTL speaker amp from the likes of Threshold, Nelson Pass, Pass Labs, SimAudio, Audio-gd or our very own Kevin Gilmore - or any High end designer?

I've heard op-amp based custom amps, I've rolled op-amps, I've compared op-amp based amps with op-amps in the signal path directly to all discrete amps - many of times.  

The truth is - IMO if you heard op-amp based amps with op-amps in the signal path - you heard them all.  Here's why.  In my experience you can have the most powerful power supply and as many watts you wish - if those op-amps are in the signal path - that's what your hearing.  Many people like the sound of op-amps because you can customize the sound.  Sort of like tubes - but not really.

Many op-amps carry different sound - that's why rolling op-amps is something people who like that sound do, they can taylor the sound with different op-amps.  

Compared "side by side" to a "Good" all discrete amp the op-amp based amp with op-amps in the signal path lacks in transparency and clarity.  From what I've heard..

That is a pretty strong opinion given that you have not heard the design. One of the strongest advocates of the speaker amp is an audio note and blue circle dealer who has heard and owned a whole lot so stuff that I would love to be able to afford. His current focus (maybe excessively) is clarity and realism, and that is where the NSL excels according to everyone who has had it loan. His thoughts are here. http://www.bluecircle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1651. Personally I like tubes, but the nsl is something I keep thinking about.

 

[hifimanrookie]

Nope Never.....

IIRC your amp is an op-amp based amp with op-amps in the signal path..   If so no thanks - I'll pass.  But I'm sure it sounds very good, I'm just not a fan of op-amps in the signal path.

So the big question is have you heard "your" amp directly compared to an all discrete TOTL speaker amp from the likes of Threshold, Nelson Pass, Pass Labs, SimAudio, Audio-gd or our very own Kevin Gilmore - or any High end designer?

I've heard op-amp based custom amps, I've rolled op-amps, I've compared op-amp based amps with op-amps in the signal path directly to all discrete amps - many of times.  

The truth is - IMO if you heard op-amp based amps with op-amps in the signal path - you heard them all.  Here's why.  In my experience you can have the most powerful power supply and as many watts you wish - if those op-amps are in the signal path - that's what your hearing.  Many people like the sound of op-amps because you can customize the sound.  Sort of like tubes - but not really.

Many op-amps carry different sound - that's why rolling op-amps is something people who like that sound do, they can taylor the sound with different op-amps.  

Compared "side by side" to a "Good" all discrete amp the op-amp based amp with op-amps in the signal path lacks in transparency and clarity.  From what I've heard..

Funny that u say that..that a opamp based amp cant go one on one with a good ss amp...if u did ur homework a bit my friend u should know that his amps..whether tube based, hybrid or ss..most of them with opamps in it are considered among the best EXTREME high end amps in this world... Go check the reviews about his NSL amp... But i agree...that reviewer also said ..HE WOULD NEVER EXPECTED that opamp based amp could go one on one with another (check the revie urself) reference amp he used for many years to compare High end stuff... So i can understand ur disbelieving..

Coincidence is that this weekend i am invited by a dutch high end audio shop in the south in my country to compare my amp to a couple of their high end amps (1 being discrete built, and two tube based) they sell krell and other extreme high end stuff and are getting into the headphone amp market..so they needed a reference to compare their selfmade amps to...one is going to be marketed for the high end market..thats the tube amp..the ss amp will be mid range....

It will be a friendly comparision (i bought my solid tech audio rack with them).. And am really curious how my amp compares with very good amps..i even may try speaker amps of the likes of krell. Am sure those amps (costing 10tousends of euros) will be better..no doubt..as my amp is not even 10.000euro.

But as i said...no one believes me when i say my amps sounds unbelievable...as everyone who has some experience with opamps says it cant be that such an amp sounds good..well...surprise surprise....

But check the reviews urself about their amps...google it..all their amps have opamps...some more and some less of them...but if u can believe ALL the reviews...they sound unbelievable good..no matter in which pricerange they are...

Ur in luck..ur in the states..so u could attend a audio meet where they also attend..they do that a lot...show their products on the bigger shows..maybe it would be interesting for u to try one out urself...

I was a ss amp lover, discrete builts, then i went to tube amping..the complete oposite..and now opamps... U see people can change their opinion...and i am glad i did..

I know that many people believe opamps or tube based amps are inferior sounding to discrete built SS amps, but i also believe u have exceptions to the general rule...i found at least one in the tube camp and now i found one on the opamp camp..:rolleyes:

In the end its the complete package that makes a amp sound good or not...same with cars..u can strap on a HUGE turbo on ur honda..but it will only be really fast on tracks when u upgrade the brakes, lighter rims, the shocks, transmission etc to keep it planted on the tarmac and go fast.....eventhough its generally said that a honda will be killed by any muscle car... There are excepptions to that rule

Ps..now i think of it..we had same kind of dicussion last year when i had my 'antiquated' modded darkvoice 337 tubeamp..u said same thing about that amp also.. And we proably would get same friendly discussion about my code-x, being a (according to many..faulty) he5 in the roots..but transformed to something unreal sounding by a mad genius so i wont get into that..lolz

But am glad u stick to ur word..i respect that! More then u can imagine.

 

[Clemmaster]

Don't stick with what you have... Unless it is a Lavardin IS Reference!

I've enjoying it so much that I've been lacking sleep for 2 weeks...

 

[hifimanrookie]

That is a pretty strong opinion given that you have not heard the design. One of the strongest advocates of the speaker amp is an audio note and blue circle dealer who has heard and owned a whole lot so stuff that I would love to be able to afford. His current focus (maybe excessively) is clarity and realism, and that is where the NSL excels according to everyone who has had it loan. His thoughts are here. http://www.bluecircle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1651. Personally I like tubes, but the nsl is something I keep thinking about.

Thats what i also hear! Its unreal how REAL my amp sound...water sounds like real water n a way like i never heard before, as an example...
.and its not even burned in yet with only around 450hrs burn in time...

As i said..prepoman just needs to hear one nsl to make him see not all opamp based amps sound bad but ofcourse he is free to express his personal experiences ofcourse.. We all do the same..and that makes headfi so fun

 

[preproman]

Funny that u say that..that a opamp based amp cant go one on one with a good ss amp...if u did ur homework a bit my friend u should know that his amps..whether tube based, hybrid or ss..most of them with opamps in it are considered among the best EXTREME high end amps in this world... Go check the reviews about his NSL amp... But i agree...that reviewer also said ..HE WOULD NEVER EXPECTED that opamp based amp could go one on one with another (check the revie urself) reference amp he used for many years to compare High end stuff... So i can understand ur disbelieving..
 

 
 
If I did my homework??  I think owning, rolling and comparing is homework enough.  I'm not sure what homework your talking about - reading reviews?  Yes, I read review, however, I like the hear for myself.  I don't put much stock in reviews.  Noticed how I keep saying "side by side" and comparing.  That's all the kind of homework I need.  So you can keep reading your reviews.
 
I said nothing bad about your amp - I actually said "I'm sure it sounds very good'.  
 
Again, "from what I heard" I DON"T LIKE AMPS WITH OP-AMPS IN THE SIGNAL PATH - period..  until I hear one that changes what I all ready heard.  "YMMV"
 
You like to brag and boast about "any amp you own" like it's the best amp in the world.  I've not talked about any amp I own or have owned as being "unbelievable"  as you do.  I'm talking about amps in general.  
 
 
That's all I have to say in this matter.  You stick with your op-amps and I'll stick with my discrete amps..   I love the way Audio-gd builds his amp - No OPA or Coupling caps in the signal path..  And for only $1880 - that's a steal..

 

[ohhgourami]

  That's all I have to say in this matter.  You stick with your op-amps and I'll stick with my discrete amps..   I love the way Audio-gd builds his amp - No OPA or Coupling caps in the signal path..  And for only $1880 - that's a steal..

 
And ACSS!!!
 
Finally got my ACSS/CAST cable! Less fuzz and more snap. Makes this Krell even more complete sounding.

 

[hifimanrookie]

If I did my homework??  I think owning, rolling and comparing is homework enough.  I'm not sure what homework your talking about - reading reviews?  Yes, I read review, however, I like the hear for myself.  I don't put much stock in reviews.  Noticed how I keep saying "side by side" and comparing.  That's all the kind of homework I need.  So you can keep reading your reviews.

I said nothing bad about your amp - I actually said "I'm sure it sounds very good'.  

Again, "from what I heard" I DON"T LIKE AMPS WITH OP-AMPS IN THE SIGNAL PATH - period..  until I hear one that changes what I all ready heard.  "YMMV"

You like to brag and boast about "any amp you own" like it's the best amp in the world.  I've not talked about any amp I own or have owned as being "unbelievable"  as you do.  I'm talking about amps in general.  


That's all I have to say in this matter.  You stick with your op-amps and I'll stick with my discrete amps..   I love the way Audio-gd builds his amp - No OPA or Coupling caps in the signal path..  And for only $1880 - that's a steal..

My friend..i also never said my amp is the best of the world..i even said it isnt...as i heard much better amps already..(and probably will hear more this weekend)..but not in my price range though

But yes..i like how the amps i had and own sound...and i talk about it...and ur the same..u are also very very very confident ur amp sounds far above its pricepoint... And i respect that..only wish u would respect me loving my amps just as much..as i also believe that my amp is a super deal..even for the price i paid for it...

But best..nah..i heard a set at a friends place... Worth around 100.000euro...that blew me away!!! But hey..he has the money to buy it...i dont..so i stick to what i have..and i love it..whether opamp based, tube based or even discrete based (my onkyo receiver i have is actually discrete built as far i know, so i know how good such an amp can sound..lolz.

Lets keep it at that..i was not attacking u...eventhough u maybe felt that way...but ur talking in general...and never heard any blue circle amp..never...i heard audio gd amps (the importer of audio gd in the Uk is actually a friend of mine) and i like what they do with their amps for what they ask for it... I really do... U will never hear me say anything bad about audio gd... And if u love it..good for u

And..relax man..take a deep breath..... Lolz