[MRC001]

  I'm sorry that I've to ask but I'm not particularly educated on audio equipment - by the measurements you mentioned, how will the O2 fare in driving an LCD-2?
 
Also, if it's possible, please tell me how much (a percentage number would work) of the LCD-2's potential I'll be able to extract with an O2 amp.

I can explain what the specs suggest. The specs don't tell the whole story, but they'll help you avoid obvious problems.
According to InnerFidelity, the JDS labs O2 when AC powered can put at least 4 Volts into 70 ohms cleanly, which is about 230 mW of power.
That's more than enough to drive the LCD2. When playing the LCD2 at any normal listening level the O2 is loafing along.
 
However, this only means the O2 and LCD2 are compatible from an electric / load standpoint. It doesn't mean they sound good. That's for your ears to decide.

 

[x RELIC x]

MRC001, at those low power ratings are you considering the juice needed for bass output vs treble output? Bass frequencies require much more power to reproduce than mid and treble frequencies. Sure, your example of low output power can drive the headphones to loud db levels but it'll sound like listening out of a tin can (not quite but still), at least that's the effect when I use low power amps with the LCD-2.

 

[MRC001]

The LCD-2 have the same impedance at all frequencies, and their voltage sensitivity is also flat vs. frequency. They are purely resistive, so there is no frequency-dependent change in impedance or efficiency.
 
Given this, how could they require more current for a low vs. high frequency, at the same amplitude? V=IR applies to resistors in an AC circuit. When we're talking about pure resistors, a given voltage requires the same current, at any frequency, even down to zero (DC). And the LCD-2, being orthos, are resistors for all practical purposes.
 
The notion you suggest is relevant to conventional speaker drivers, which tend to have lower impedance at the bottom of their frequency range, which requires more current (and thus more power) to produce the same voltage. In short, they are less efficient at their lowest frequencies. Orthos like the LCD-2 are not like that. This is one reason why Orthos are easier for an amp to drive than a conventional headphone of the same nominal impedance and efficiency.

 

[psgarcha92]

@ahnafakeef,
 
look for used amps. 
These headphones can be "end game". I brought them this month, and I am pretty sure am on my way to getting used to them so bad, that nothing else will sound good.
 
first things first,
I see that you have 14 posts here. Now, don't mind, I don't know your audio history. Gear used/experienced.
Please dont mind this, but if you havent had much experience, you "might" not be able to appreciate what these is all about. 
 
You have limited funds, get a decent pair of phones and a good source, save the rest. Learn your way through or something. Come back when you have enough funds & experience. I will explain why.
 
When you get the phones, and cannot power them up properly, you do not take them to the eargasmic levels. Granted the power they are advertised at will melt your brain, if you listen at those levels, but do not settle with them without a decent amp. I have had earphones open up beautifully with an amp. Its quite simple, these transducers need power to be tamed. More power will almost always (with properly designed amps) mean less distortion.
 
The bass on these is killing. and I will tell you to your relief that they sound sweet from my Mini^3 amp. But that wont get you even close to what these can do. Seriously. 
 
I got them used at 700 USD and a Used Schiit Lyr for another 300. Put in more money, and got myself a DAC, the AudioGD nfb 15. The setup is a fine, fine setup, and blows my older setups (all portable) out. The presentation is so beautifully different. Its natural. These are detailed too. They will sound more real than anything you have listened to before, i can assure you. I have heard stuff on them (bass, bass i heard, people) that I wouldn't normally hear on my RE272 or TF10. No sir. I heard footsteps in a movie, they were not focused on the performer moving, but these reproduced the sound so so so very naturally, I got scared thinking someone was home (i was home alone). Every now and then I have to move my headphones off to make sure it wasn't an intruder. 
 
And. Laptop audio is almost universally ****ty. Don't go that way. If nothing, an O2 "might" sound "ok". Nothing mind blowing. Do not dismiss them without listening to them properly.
 
P.S. This is all my opinion, people, please don't get pi**ed off.
 
Regards 

 

[ahnafakeef]

  @ahnafakeef,
 
look for used amps. 
These headphones can be "end game". I brought them this month, and I am pretty sure am on my way to getting used to them so bad, that nothing else will sound good.
 
first things first,
I see that you have 14 posts here. Now, don't mind, I don't know your audio history. Gear used/experienced.
Please dont mind this, but if you havent had much experience, you "might" not be able to appreciate what these is all about. 
 
You have limited funds, get a decent pair of phones and a good source, save the rest. Learn your way through or something. Come back when you have enough funds & experience. I will explain why.
 
When you get the phones, and cannot power them up properly, you do not take them to the eargasmic levels. Granted the power they are advertised at will melt your brain, if you listen at those levels, but do not settle with them without a decent amp. I have had earphones open up beautifully with an amp. Its quite simple, these transducers need power to be tamed. More power will almost always (with properly designed amps) mean less distortion.
 
The bass on these is killing. and I will tell you to your relief that they sound sweet from my Mini^3 amp. But that wont get you even close to what these can do. Seriously. 
 
I got them used at 700 USD and a Used Schiit Lyr for another 300. Put in more money, and got myself a DAC, the AudioGD nfb 15. The setup is a fine, fine setup, and blows my older setups (all portable) out. The presentation is so beautifully different. Its natural. These are detailed too. They will sound more real than anything you have listened to before, i can assure you. I have heard stuff on them (bass, bass i heard, people) that I wouldn't normally hear on my RE272 or TF10. No sir. I heard footsteps in a movie, they were not focused on the performer moving, but these reproduced the sound so so so very naturally, I got scared thinking someone was home (i was home alone). Every now and then I have to move my headphones off to make sure it wasn't an intruder. 
 
And. Laptop audio is almost universally ****ty. Don't go that way. If nothing, an O2 "might" sound "ok". Nothing mind blowing. Do not dismiss them without listening to them properly.
 
P.S. This is all my opinion, people, please don't get pi**ed off.
 
Regards 

Thanks a lot for your input.
 
Unfortunately, I'm not going to opt for buying used equipment. Could you please recommend a proper amp+DAC setup that can drive pretty much any headphone in the world? Then I'll get that and be done with it for a long while.
 
And yes, you are right. My knowledge on audio equipment is extremely limited. As for experience, I have had an O2+ODAC combo paired with a DT990 Pro 250 Ohm for over a year. This is my first and only "real" audio setup. When I was recommended this setup, I was told that I'd be able to run $1000 headphones off of it without any issue. Apparently they weren't all that correct.
 
Anyway, I was actually planning on getting the headphones now and then investing another ~$1000 for the DAC/Amp some months down the road. But I suppose that is not a feasible idea.
 
Now, I'm currently ready to spend ~$1000. Given the situation, I'm contemplating getting a $550 HiFiMan HE-500 along with a ~$500 DAC or Amp (whichever is necessary, assuming it's one or the other). This scenario is applicable only if the new Amp/DAC is more than sufficient for whatever uber-end headphone (LCD-2, HE6, T1 etc.) I get in the future.
 
So bottom line, it's going to be either of the two:
 
a) Get a $1000 LCD-2 now, and get a $1000 Amp+DAC setup 8-10 months later
b) Get a $550 HE-500 + an Amp or a DAC now, and get the LCD-2 or HE6 T1 8-10 months later
 
Thanks for bearing with my long post. I hope this will help you provide a sound recommendation.

 

[jodgey4]

The order of priorities should always be headphones, then an amp powerful enough to drive them, then a clean DAC. Always go for the better headphones - try and audition them too! Anybody who tells different usually has no understanding of how easy it is to make decent DACs and amps compared to headphones! LCD-2 + Audio-GD NFB-11 would be the best bang for buck setup IHMO (ES9018 + Class A amp). The Fazor 2.2 is pretty easy to drive for a double-sided planar. Many people do like the HE-500 more though, as tastes are subjective. I haven't heard them myself.

 

[MRC001]

.
So bottom line, it's going to be either of the two:

a) Get a $1000 LCD-2 now, and get a $1000 Amp+DAC setup 8-10 months later
b) Get a $550 HE-500 + an Amp or a DAC now, and get the LCD-2 or HE6 T1 8-10 months later

Thanks for bearing with my long post. I hope this will help you provide a sound recommendation.

I've listened to the HE500 extensively. It does some things well but wasn't the headphone for me because the midrange is recessed and voiced differently from the bass and treble. The LCD2F has the same excellent bass as the HE500 yet with more natural mids and a flatter overall frequency response. That's important to me as most of my listening is acoustic music and I want it to sound natural. Your preferences may vary. The HE500 is also less efficient than the LCD2, requires more voltage and power to drive.

Its true you need a good amp to get the most from the LCD2, but it is easier to drive than the HE500, giving you a wider choice of amps than the HE500 does.

Because of this, I would pick option A. But that's just my personal preference.

 

[psgarcha92]

  The order of priorities should always be headphones, then an amp powerful enough to drive them, then a clean DAC. Always go for the better headphones - try and audition them too! Anybody who tells different usually has no understanding of how easy it is to make decent DACs and amps compared to headphones! LCD-2 + Audio-GD NFB-11 would be the best bang for buck setup IHMO (ES9018 + Class A amp). The Fazor 2.2 is pretty easy to drive for a double-sided planar. Many people do like the HE-500 more though, as tastes are subjective. I haven't heard them myself.

 
The restrictive criteria is funds as you can see here, so the Audio-GD NFB 11, doesn't quite fit his budget.
 
I have seen people driving HD598s with a cellphone, brother. I have cursed. I have tested them with an amp and I have cringed at these people. 
 
People are usually not at the luxury of thinking of amp first and then phones. Phones come first and then the amp/source. But that doesn't happen that very often in HiFi land, dont you think? Only after I brought my pair, I noticed this thing. Usually, a person who has enough funds for an LCD2 will have the funds for a decent amp too. Then you move onto better amps. "better"
 
But if you gotta drive something out of your phone/laptop, I would suggest not doing that anyway whatsoever.
(The info, that the guy owns an O2 already wasn't available before his last post, as you might notice)
 
Why the abuse of something beautifully crafted  aesthetically & sound wise, on which you spend money, that too a crapload of. One might lose the patience, and forget about the LCD2's capabilities whatsoever. Placebo is something that exists in the land of the Audio Psyche. You fall out of love with equipment and don't give it enough justice. By the time he gets the amp, he might have lost appreciation. Specially if he doesn't have that much experience. 10 Months is a long time to lose patience with any phone. Ofcourse, my opinion.
 
I know exactly what you mean by the amount of effort it goes into coming up with decent phones. Compared to sources. But we have seen quite a few different things in life. Don't buy phones that need an amp, if you don't have the money. By that i mean this: If your headphones need power, think of that criterion first. What are you gonna run 250 Ohms headphones from? a Fiio E3, by that philosophy?
 
 
EDIT: PS. 250 Ohms is an example, not the impedance of the LCD2s. 
EDITahnafakeef, The LCD2 and Audio-GD NFB 11 will be best bang for buck, as @jodgey4 pointed out. Also, you own the O2 + ODAC setup. You are not without amplification, so i would say go ahead and pull the trigger on the LCD2s.
Regards

 

[ahnafakeef]

@psgarcha92 now that you know that I have an O2+ODAC, what do you recommend?

Also, just came across this: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/littledot-tube-amp
 
Would it be better than the NFB 11 or worse?
 
Also, is the ODAC a "clean" enough DAC to complement an LCD-2?
 
If the MKIII is good enough and I can get it at that price, I can probably squeeze it in with the LCD-2.
 
Would that be a good enough setup?
 
Thank you.
------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: Also, my question remains - what is the ideal DAC+Amp setup that would drive the LCD-2 and any other headphone in existence with ease?

 

[psgarcha92]

  @psgarcha92 now that you know that I have an O2+ODAC, what do you recommend?

Also, just came across this: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/littledot-tube-amp
 
Would it be better than the NFB 11 or worse?
 
Also, is the ODAC a "clean" enough DAC to complement an LCD-2?
 
If the MKIII is good enough and I can get it at that price, I can probably squeeze it in with the LCD-2.
 
Would that be a good enough setup?
 
Thank you.

@ahnafakeef, dont rush into an amp, for now. Do your research.
Why I say this is, because, in a previous post, it was pointed out that OTL amps do not complement the LCD2s well. The LittleDot linked here, is an OTL. I havent heard it, but its a deduction from what people pointed out. 
 
The ODAC will be good enough or not, is really for you to decide. Why, because we don't listen to just one component in a system. We listen to the whole system. The LCD2s are dark. Put them in with a warm sounding DAC, and you will be disappointed if you wanted more sparkle. To me it sounded detailed on my RE272s, more detailed than my iPod Video 5G. TF10s were not affected by it in the chain, at least I could not detect a change.
What I think is this: You have an External DAC. This puts you leaps and bounds ahead the Laptop Audio scene. So don't bother yet.    
 
Also, NFB 11 is Solid State. It wont have the inherent distortion that Tube Amps have. I am not saying all distortion is bad. Tube distortion can sound good. 
Do more research on amps.
 
Regards

 

[ahnafakeef]

  @ahnafakeef, dont rush into an amp, for now. Do your research.
Why I say this is, because, in a previous post, it was pointed out that OTL amps do not complement the LCD2s well. The LittleDot linked here, is an OTL. I havent heard it, but its a deduction from what people pointed out. 
 
The ODAC will be good enough or not, is really for you to decide. Why, because we don't listen to just one component in a system. We listen to the whole system. The LCD2s are dark. Put them in with a warm sounding DAC, and you will be disappointed if you wanted more sparkle. To me it sounded detailed on my RE272s, more detailed than my iPod Video 5G. TF10s were not affected by it in the chain, at least I could not detect a change.
What I think is this: You have an External DAC. This puts you leaps and bounds ahead the Laptop Audio scene. So don't bother yet.    
 
Also, NFB 11 is Solid State. It wont have the inherent distortion that Tube Amps have. I am not saying all distortion is bad. Tube distortion can sound good. 
Do more research on amps.
 
Regards

Okay, so no tube amps.
 
I don't mean to seem like I'm rushing to buy an amp. I just want to know which amp and DAC would perfectly complement an LCD-2 so that I can get an idea of the expense I'm looking at. If the IDEAL amp isn't too expensive, I might just pull the trigger on both an amp and the LCD-2 and get the DAC later.
 
Also, slightly off-topic, would my O2+ODAC suffice for a Tesla T1?
 
Thank you for your patient guidance.

 

[psgarcha92]

Check out the Schiit LYR.
 
Please see, that I am not saying No to tube amps. The LYR and LYR 2, you can see, are sworn upon as  good performers for the LCD2. Out of your budget though. Was the same for me, but I brought one used, and god am I glad that I did. 
 
But. If you dont like the LCD2s and choose to go with another phone like the HD800, it might not pair well.
 
I would say, only High End amps can actually be expected to work like a charm with just about any phone on the market. They still would sound different. Power wise, they would be beautifully equipped. 
 
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gustard-h10
This pairs well with the LCD2 but dont know about other headphones. 
 
There wouldnt be a sure shot Universal solution amp for this, maybe the 2-3k USD amps. BHA-1 or the Violectric Audio HPA V281 show good promise on the specs.
Way out of your budget for now. 
 
EDIT: No idea about Tesla T1, brother. No experience with that at all. 
Regards

 

[Arnotts]

If you're looking for an amp that will drive almost everything, and generally sound very good while doing it (although not perfect, as perfection comes from achieving perfect synergy in your entire signal chain), then the Gustard H10 is a superb choice.
 
I owned it for 9 months and paired it with ALL of my headphones (including the LCD-2's and LCD-X's). I sold it because, although it's an excellent jack of all trades, I want to upgrade to the Schiit Mjolnir 2 or Cavalli Liquid Carbon.

 

[ahnafakeef]

  Check out the Schiit LYR.
 
Please see, that I am not saying No to tube amps. The LYR and LYR 2, you can see, are sworn upon as  good performers for the LCD2. Out of your budget though. Was the same for me, but I brought one used, and god am I glad that I did. 
 
But. If you dont like the LCD2s and choose to go with another phone like the HD800, it might not pair well.
 
I would say, only High End amps can actually be expected to work like a charm with just about any phone on the market. They still would sound different. Power wise, they would be beautifully equipped. 
 
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gustard-h10
This pairs well with the LCD2 but dont know about other headphones. 
 
There wouldnt be a sure shot Universal solution for this, else than 2-3K amps. BHA-1 or the Violectric Audio HPA V281.
Way out of your budget for now. 
 
Regards

I sincerely apologize for being so obscure. What I meant is, suggest the best amp and DAC setup for the LCD-2 when money is no object. Then I'll be able to judge the situation and proceed with my purchases accordingly.
 
Also, which of these would you recommend for the LCD-2?
 
a) Gustard H10: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/GUSTARD-H10-amp-high-current-Class-A-Headphone-Amplifier-AC115V-230V/32264637987.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.1YPzrm&ws_ab_test=201407_2,201444_6,201409_1
 
b) Schiit Lyr: http://www.amazon.com/Schiit-Lyr-Hybrid-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B004T335BK/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1441780986&sr=1-1&keywords=lyr
 
And what DAC would go well with it?
 
Thank you.

 

[x RELIC x]

Okay, so no tube amps.

I don't mean to seem like I'm rushing to buy an amp. I just want to know which amp and DAC would perfectly complement an LCD-2 so that I can get an idea of the expense I'm looking at. If the IDEAL amp isn't too expensive, I might just pull the trigger on both an amp and the LCD-2 and get the DAC later.

Also, slightly off-topic, would my O2+ODAC suffice for a Tesla T1?

Thank you for your patient guidance.

Specifically no OTL tube amps. I had the ALO Pan Am with the LCD-2 and it was a match made in heaven! I should never have sold it because they are discontinued now but if you can find a used one I highly suggest you grab one.

Also, for $599 the Cavalli Liquid Carbon, as suggested earlier, has a lot of Head Fi-ers excited including myself (I have one on order). The only issue with that one is parts are delayed so it won't ship until mid November. Cavalli Audio typically makes very excellent amps.

The Schiit Lyr 2 is also another good amp for the LCD-2. For a DAC to match it would make sense to get the Bifrost. Or if you really want to get a DAC that will last you a long time save some money to get the Gungnir multibit.

Edit: Or have a good look at the Audio-gd amps and DACs. Although they look cheap from their web page I can assure you that they produce world class leading gear at their price point.