[jc9394]

Quote:

Apparently it competes with a B22 which I believe is quite insane for a small portable amp that costs $140 .....

I will compare it to my beta22 once I get around to order one.

 

[Kremer930]

Since people are talking portables that represent good value, how about the ibasso PB2 balanced portable?  It has good power and is cheap and can roll opamps to tune to your preferred sound and can even drive the HE6 to a reasonable level.  I am impressed with how much fuller the bass is and how good the dynamics are.
 
 

 

[obazavil]

Quote:

I will compare it to my beta22 once I get around to order one.

Please post the review

 

[khaos974]

Quote:

Remember, don't panic.
 
the host's wife actually thought it sounded better than his Apache with her limited listening experience + "

"

On the other hand, that could also mean she has no idea of the price of the Apache and compared them more fairly

 

 

[brasewel]

Quote:

On the other hand, that could also mean she has no idea of the price of the Apache and compared them more fairly

 

When I meant limited, it was listening to headphones and music critiquing in general. But you might be right since she didn't have any price bias.
 
 

 

[voodoohao]

Hi guys I've heard a lot about the Meier concerto and stagedac combo with the lcd2s and there's a lot of positive reviews and such. I have found a local seller for this combo for 700 usd, should I go for it? Knowing that the concerto has been discontinued. I currently own a dacmagic and x can v8p amp, but would be looking to sell them if the performance of the Meier combo is good
 
Edit* the Meier combo is used. Not new forgot to mention that haha

 

[Argo Duck]

@voodoohao - It may depend what you listen to. I have a positive regard for Jan Meier's work; some others don't.
 
There's a "rule of thumb" the LCD2 needs 2W (peak? rms?) to deliver its best. I don't know what this is based on exactly; call it the wisdom (or the delusion) of crowds if you like. Concerto can deliver 2W peak into rev 1, about 1.8W into rev 2, given a 4V input. However, the StageDAC delivers 2.2V rms or a little over 3V peak. With 8dB gain (2.5 x), we're talking 1W peaks or slightly more, dependent on rev.
 
To be sensible these figures, while short of the 2W rule, would yield ear-shattering SPL levels. On most of the material I listen to the Concerto is more than enough. Perhaps if you listen to a lot of orchestral (high dynamic range) material, it may not be - IDK, I listen to that kind of material on my speaker rig! I have gained the impression some feel power is needed - think Schiit Lyr territory - to get satisfactory "kick" and "slam" in the bass/sub-bass. I confess the reasoning escapes me, and I can't hear this difference [see my sig!], but it may be true.
 
It seems to me Jan Meier values neutrality and clean sound. The Concerto (and Stagedac) certainly achieve this. That means it gets really close to getting out of the way of the music, adding little or no excitement or euphony. Compared to the Schitt Lyr with suitable tubes, for example, the Concerto can sound a little dry in the lower mids.
 
It 'compensates' for this - if compensation is needed - with deep blackground and terrific attack throughout. Added to this it is highly detailed and has extended, nice highs (slightly sweet, as Skylab remarked).
 
Personally, I wouldn't hesitate. The combo functions as a reference point for me - whatever else I get, I hope/plan to hold on to this (or possibly the Stagedac/Classic) combo for a while. But that's just me.
 
I am sure others will chime in with opposing views, which will help you get a balanced (

) picture.

 

[Red Jacket Mike]

I owned the Concerto and Stage DAC for nearly a year, and used them with my LCD-2s (rev 1s and 2s).  The combination worked very well, and there was plenty of power.  I eventually sold both units, and upgraded to the W4S DAC-2, and a Violectric V200.  The Concerto was a very clean, neutral sounding amp.  Dead quiet background, and very well built.  I would recommend it highly.  The same comments would apply to the Stage DAC; I didn't really use the cross feed features, though.
 
I did like the dual outputs on the StageDAC, since I keep two different amps connected (the other being a Woo WA2).  The W4S also has that capability.
 
I upgraded because I was looking for a solid state amp that was a shade on the warm side of neutral, and something with even more available power; thus the V200.  This amp is considerably more expensive, as well.
 
For 700 USD, I can't think of an amp/DAC combo with more bang for the buck then the Meier units, though.  Very nice pieces of gear.

 

[voodoohao]

Thanks AiDee and Mike for the replies! I listen to a mix of alternative and indie music, dipping into mainstream youtube videos occasionally so I guess I can't go wrong with the Meier units. Will probably will be getting them next week or so.
 
 
@Aidee: What does blackground mean? haha I'm not very good at jargon

 

[Argo Duck]

Just exactly what Red Jacket Mike said: "Dead quiet background". You might think 'so what?', but it adds noticeably to the perception of dynamics. Stands out most when there is a beat or two of silence followed by a loud burst, but makes a difference generally IMO. Possibly  contributes to the perception of fast attack as well.
 
The Violectrics RJM mentions are noted for this too.
 
Quote:

@Aidee: What does blackground mean? haha I'm not very good at jargon

 

 

[Girls Generation]

I used to think lowly of black background... until I actually heard it.

 

[GeorgeNapalm]

Hi guys,
 
I stumbled upon a headphone amp review in one of the Russian audio magazines. The choice of amps is strange for us, but that's probably what you can get in Moscow. There was Meier Corda Concerto among the amps. And in contrast with the consensus here, its sound with LCD-2 was described as pretty bad:
 
"Heavy" LCD-2 demonstrated extremely lazy, flat and slow sound with non-existent bass structure. There was no proper
dynamics and micro-dynamics to speak of.

With that, their experts liked how HD-800 sounded with Concerto.
 
You can read the full review here: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.salonav.com%2Farch%2F2011%2F03%2F034-meier.htm
 
 
 

 

[FSonicSmith]

 
 
Quote:

@voodoohao - It may depend what you listen to. I have a positive regard for Jan Meier's work; some others don't.
 
There's a "rule of thumb" the LCD2 needs 2W (peak? rms?) to deliver its best. I don't know what this is based on exactly; call it the wisdom (or the delusion) of crowds if you like. Concerto can deliver 2W peak into rev 1, about 1.8W into rev 2, given a 4V input. However, the StageDAC delivers 2.2V rms or a little over 3V peak. With 8dB gain (2.5 x), we're talking 1W peaks or slightly more, dependent on rev.
 
To be sensible these figures, while short of the 2W rule, would yield ear-shattering SPL levels. On most of the material I listen to the Concerto is more than enough. Perhaps if you listen to a lot of orchestral (high dynamic range) material, it may not be - IDK, I listen to that kind of material on my speaker rig! I have gained the impression some feel power is needed - think Schiit Lyr territory - to get satisfactory "kick" and "slam" in the bass/sub-bass. I confess the reasoning escapes me, and I can't hear this difference [see my sig!], but it may be true.

 
The concept I quote above (and I don't mean to pick on the author) is something I see repeated again and again here and elsewhere-that power requirements are a matter of reaching a certain decible level. As much as I respect a lot of the technical info on the Anedio website, when it comes to headphone usage, the guy behind Anedio does the same thing; talks in terms of reaching a given loudness level;
 
Quote:

 

1. How much power is needed to drive a headphone?
   The sensitivities of the headphones vary widely, as much as 30 dB SPL, for a given power, and it is impossible to cite a single number. For a moderately sensitive headphone, such as the Sennheiser HD600 (97 dB SPL/mW, 300 ohms), it would require about 20 mW (2.4 Vrms into 300 ohms) to reach 110 dB SPL. For the Audeze LCD-2, it would be 79 mW (2.2 Vrms into 60 ohms), and for the HifiMan HE-5LE, about 178 mW (2.6 Vrms into 38 ohms). The D2's default output level (4 Vrms) is more than sufficient to drive all these headphones to 110 dB SPL with extremely low distortion. However, extended listening at such a high level is strongly discouraged, as sound-induced hearing loss is irreversible

 
 

1. Just as medicine is both an art and a science, music reproduction is both. Cliche as it might be, it's true. It's no surprise that an engineer who focuses on DAC technology (largely objective and prone to measurement) comes at headphone amp design from the engineering angle only. I do not come from a headphone background, but from a general audiophile background-25 years worth. In my view, amplifiers sound different from one another in ways that can not be easily measured. I subscribe to the philosophy that measurements are not all that matters and that not all things that matter can be measured. How fast an amp sounds-dynamics, slam, release and decay, these things are not easily measured. Headphones are inherently limited in their ability to convey many things we like about music reproduction-soundstaging, imaging, and visceral slam chiefly. What most headphone enthusiasts are really looking for in a headphone amp-though they often fail to come right out and say it-is the missing excitement factor. Due to the lack of soundwaves reverberating in a room, headphones often sound dull and lifeless. A very well designed head amp, IMHO, goes further than most amps in conveying speed and dynamics. It's more than just a matter of voltage and current and spls. When a large number of people agree that certain amps are fun to listen to with headphones (amps like the Zana Deux, Cavalli LF, Cary CAD300 sei, Leben 300sx, Violectric V200) I suspect that the design and implementation is far more nuanced than just looking at voltage and current into various loads.

 

[Argo Duck]

@FSonicSmith - good post. Agreed. Btw, my mention of power was merely defensive! There's a history here of observation and rebuke, as so often is the case when discussing gear. My sig (Art of hearing wrongly, which I wear proudly btw) arose directly from one such exchange 

 
@GeorgeNapalm - I don't think there is a consensus at all about Concerto with LCD2. On the contrary, it tends to polarize listeners into love it or hate it!
 
To be fair to Jan Meier, he designs - I don't think it is a stretch to say this - for phones like the Beyerdynamic T1 and Sennheiser HD800. Both are phones about which he seems enthusiastic. Or, willing to recommend is probably more accurate. Last time I discussed it with him - about 7 months ago - he hadn't heard the LCD2. Most certainly, therefore, he had not designed for it 

 

[GeorgeNapalm]

I would say a black background is to a greater degree a property of your listening environment. My cans and amps sound dramatically different when I listen to them at work, with high ambient noise from computers, air conditioning, people talking and at home in a quiet room. And indeed, in a quiet  room you get a better perception of dynamic range. Closed headphones might reduce this difference, but not completely.
 
Quote:

Just exactly what Red Jacket Mike said: "Dead quiet background". You might think 'so what?', but it adds noticeably to the perception of dynamics. Stands out most when there is a beat or two of silence followed by a loud burst, but makes a difference generally IMO. Possibly  contributes to the perception of fast attack as well.