ALO The Continental
Aug 25, 2011 at 3:18 AM Post #166 of 456


Quote:
 
I wish you had a Conti to AB as well, I would like to know how they compare
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Same. Based on impressions sound sig wise they appear to share similar traits. However, some mentioned the Portatube's soundstage to be a tad cramped. I can tell you the sound stage on the Continental is brilliant. Very spacious and dynamic. Wider than both the SR-71A (by a very healthy margin) and JDS cMoy.  A few things that I also really like about it. Far as I can tell it also has zero noise, completely black on silent (though I'll test again to confirm) add to that, unlike my other portable's, the pop on turn on is very small and almost in-audible. On turn off there isn't one.
 
Only things I'd want more from this amp are longer battery (10 hours please Ken!) and if it's possible, a smaller form factor. As is, it's just about portable but not exactly small. Size isn't a big concern though, especially given the power and SQ.
 
Aug 25, 2011 at 4:01 AM Post #167 of 456
 
Here you essentially omitted key aspects of the equation and missed out some key points. As Ken cleared up (power consumption being one of them).


 
 
Here you run with the idea of sloppy bass (when those who have used it have said otherwise) and a complete cut off at the 40hz disregarding the idea of just the small drop off (or increase).



 
More conjecture. The tube as stated by others and in the data sheets, was testing under extreme circumstances, not ordinary one's. The 100,000 hour figure is an estimation (perhaps a bold one). In the same way car manufacturers will extreme test an engine and then calculate the final life span to be however many times the actual test period. You need to understand this.
 
It is not 25% of the power of an iPod. You just did an underestimation of the figures provided.
 
There is no cut off at the 40hz mark. You are running with sensationalist assumptions yet again.


 
 
Even more conjecture and false claims. With your very little and flawed understanding of electronics, testing methodology and heat (as can be surmised by your posts) you jump to the false conclusion that the tube is used as little more than 'decoration' and that the tube isn't actually 'working'. You really seem to have it in for ALO and this amp.
 

 
 
Then how do other portable amps do it? With magic and fairy dust?
 
 
 
The first bolded part is just  laughable. Perhaps with your very flawed, ignorant theories and understanding of these things yes. Second bolded part, we're getting closer.
 
The last bolded part is just pure trolling if you ask me. Even more shocking considering it's from a mod. 
 
 

 
It is completely feasible. The manufacturer tested at extreme conditions and mentioned that these should not be taken as the norm, yet you are ignoring this and running with the extremes.
 
Also, in response to your post about the cut off at 20hz to 40hz I responded by testing every frequency for you, a post that you completely blanked (not un-expected). You are choosing to ignore facts and posts from people who  actually own the device and are  instead running with flawed theories or inaccurate comprehension of the details outlined. The 20-40hz response is + and/or -, so it's not necessarily even a cut off, it could be an increase. Even then, 1db is trivial.
 
----
 
 
No disrespect to you Eric, as I do appreciate some elements of the aforementioned posts, but based on all the above and more, if I was Ken I honestly would not bother to even respond to any of your posts further on the discussion. One question I have for YOU right now is, are you even going to buy one of these amps? Because it almost seems like you've had it in for the amp/ALO from the start of this thread and have no personal interest in the amp itself.
 
There is literally no reason why he should have to post frequency graphs to satisfy your negative curiosity. It is absurd. You can take the opinions and statements of mine, Ken's and other people (who are actually using the amp), that there's no cut off. I posted a results of a basic test, I honestly think at this point anything further is getting in to the realm of obtuse and unnecessary. 
 
This is turning in to a sensationalist merry go round of epic proportions.
 
 
The truth is some of you may never be satisfied with the answers and have countless more every time. I would argue that it is now time to end this hyperbolic tact, one that is taking the thread off tangent, and let the real discussions about the amp itself and impressions take precedent. Any further questions you (or anyone else) have, should imo, in the interests of removing clutter and conjecture, be taken straight to Ken via PM's or emails and then should you see fit, you can post a summary of his responses here at a later date. Anything further, as mentioned, is de-railing from the actual meritable elements of discussion.
 


Why the insults? Have I insulted you?

First, power consumption is only marginally relevant. I want to see the power output figures. My interest stems from claims that this will drive anything and will overpower IEMs. If that is true, some numbers would clear it up.

Power output is listed for other amps at the ALO site; why not this one?

Power output and frequency graphs are provided by almost every manufacturer for almost every product. Asking for them is not in the least unreasonable.

If you would like to perform your own tests, build a dummy load and use a DMM to measure the output. Run that through the power equation and you'll have an answer.

I sti take exception to the estimate of tube life. A hundred-fold increase is astonishing. Even if something might run for 2,000-3,000 hours under light conditions, you don't get 100,000 hours from it unless it is barely being run at all. If you barely run something, you don't get anything out of it. That's the point.

If you're keen on testing, open it up and measure what the tube produces. Find out for yourself. If you find a huge amount of power developed without consistent levels of heat, you might want to contact some scientific journals.

As for your other points:

1. Yes, I am quite frank with people and unafraid to ask questions. I'm a lawyer and a landlord; strongly opposing opinions come up daily. I have asked a number of manufacturers - in person - for stats on their amps. I've never seen one who acted insulted by those questions. Every one is immediately forthcoming and will talk for hours about their design, design philosophy, and you'll have an interesting conversation. Try it sometime. Most are really nice people who will tell you everything.

2. Forums are for public debate and discussion. If there are questions, criticisms, concerns, whatever, you talk about it openly. Amplifiers have always been discussed critically and technically here. Please look at the thread about the Objective 2, the design is fully picked through. Same with a few hundred others. There are loads of negative reviews and criticisms here. I wouldn't want it any other way. Just like how you openly criticize me. That's fine. I'll be happy to answer.

3. I started asking questions because I have an interest in tubes. I use them all the time, work on my projects and read about them. When I see claims going against everything I've read, heard from others and personally experienced from working with them, I'm going to ask questions. See points 1 and 2, above.

 
Aug 25, 2011 at 4:29 AM Post #168 of 456
Uncle Erik: While I agree it'd be nice to see a full set of figures for the amp (I myself am suspicious of manufacturers who don't provide any at all) I think the problem is you didn't spot it was clearly a hybrid amp, something which is obvious from the pictures where transistors are shown and thus the tube itself isn't singularly responsible for the power output. 
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Aug 25, 2011 at 5:43 AM Post #169 of 456
Currawong, the manufacturer's sales lit claims it is a tube amp, not a hybrid.

If the sales lit accurately describes a product, that's fine. The sales lit should give full measurements, as well. Especially if measurements are given for other devices sold by the same manufacturer.
 
Aug 25, 2011 at 6:22 AM Post #170 of 456
Aug 25, 2011 at 7:44 AM Post #171 of 456


Quote:
Currawong, the manufacturer's sales lit claims it is a tube amp, not a hybrid.

If the sales lit accurately describes a product, that's fine. The sales lit should give full measurements, as well. Especially if measurements are given for other devices sold by the same manufacturer.


I was always of the impression that the general term "tube amp" refers to an amp that uses tubes, not specifically whether it is OTL, transformer-coupled, hybrid or whatever. 
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Aug 25, 2011 at 9:39 AM Post #172 of 456
While people are flaming Uncle Eric I think his post brought forth some valid points. I for one have never heard a hybrid as being described as tube amp. When I hear tube amp I assume the amp is a tube design without transistors. The literature should describe the amp as such. I also have never heard any claims of any tube ever lasting a 100,000 hours either in all the years of having and owning tube amps. I think Uncle Erik is right on this issue. There needs to be clear cut answers and the questions he posed are not  out of line. Hybrid tell me that it is a tube pre amp section driving transistors and that the proper way to describe the amp. it may well indeed sound good but the facts need to be clarified further IMO. Insulting a respected member and moderator is not the way to get the facts out.
 
Aug 25, 2011 at 12:05 PM Post #173 of 456
The thing I don't understand is, Why the "personal" attacks on Uncle Erik. All of his questions were valid. Maybe he could have been a little nicer in the way he asked them, but not once did he personally attack anyone. He didn't even personally attack alo. The things he asked were not out of line, and he never stated anything that wasn't true. Now you may agree or disagree with him. But to attack him personally shows the immaturity of some of you. That's one of the things that bothers me the most about some of the people here. Once someone has a different point of view one person, that person then goes on to personally attack that person instead of debating them on what they may disagree about. If you love your amp, that's all that matters. There shouldn't be nothing Uncle Erik, or anyone else for that matter, could say that should ruin you enjoyment.
 
Aug 25, 2011 at 12:12 PM Post #174 of 456


Quote:
"The Continental encorperates a tube voltage gain section followed by a discrete transistor current output stage to drive headphones."
 
That sounds like an accurate description of hybrid amp to me, even if they misspelled incorporates.
 
 
 

 
 
 


 
Grokit Your post is misleading, that info has been recently updated. Of course now it's obvious that's it's a hybrid, but a couple of days ago that's not what the description stated. I was advertised as a tube amp, and like Frank said, I've never seen a hybrid advertised as a tube amp. Actually the description stated that it was tube powered. A hybrid is not tube powered. I'm glad they have finally updated the description. But it's still lacking, but at least a step in the right direction.
 
Aug 25, 2011 at 1:15 PM Post #175 of 456
All,
 
I received the Continental from Ken today.  I won't be able to test it's output power until tomorrow.   What loads do you want me to try?
I'll be using a TekTronics digital O'scope and will test output right before the point of clipping of the signal...
 
Vinnie
 
Aug 25, 2011 at 1:57 PM Post #177 of 456
I vote for 32, 50, 300 and 600 :)  Thanks Vinnie!
 
Aug 25, 2011 at 4:11 PM Post #178 of 456


Quote:
Currawong, the manufacturer's sales lit claims it is a tube amp, not a hybrid.

If the sales lit accurately describes a product, that's fine. The sales lit should give full measurements, as well. Especially if measurements are given for other devices sold by the same manufacturer.

 
I'm not well versed in head-fi, but how many "hybrid" amps are on the market?  I'm wondering how common are the hybrid designs? Just curious!
 
I've owned a Continental for several weeks and I have to say that it's an incredible amp. I examined the specs and took a chance based on my experience with my CLAS and was not disappointed!
 
 
Aug 25, 2011 at 4:18 PM Post #179 of 456
Firstly, I don't see any personal insults towards Eric, only people calling him out for some questionable tact and posts. I'm not particularly well versed with Eric, so have no idea if he is anti portable like others have mentioned. Based on a quick peak at his profile, I'm not sure if he does own any portable amps. Based on his comment earlier about heat problems even in solid state portables, I'm assuming he doesn't, others he'd know you can output sufficient power from a portable without needing gigantic heatsinks.
 
I post on a lot of forums (I'm a bit of a tech freak and geek), and generally from my experience, when someone is consistently questioning in a negative bias, or persistently posting with particular pessimism on a device or product, for example a person negatively questioning a game he has never played or has no intention of buying, an LCD fan opposing the technical merits of a Plasma TV and so forth, it's usually a pretty (obvious) bad sign.
 
If I'm being honest, initially I was curious and appreciative of Eric's comment on this amp, but then certain posts changed that. For one, the negative persistance (how many posts in this thread essentially bashing a product he's never used?). Second, ignoring the posts from users of the amp and blindly following a misinformed logic (complete cut off at 40hz, lack of power, supposedly 4x less than an iPod etc) but then what really surprised me, were these comments.
 

Quote:
The only possible conclusion is that the tube isn't really being run at all. It is mostly being lit up for show.
 
My guess is that there's enough current to light the filament so it looks like the tube is "working."
 
By the way, if anyone wants a decorative tube, I have a box of tubes that sadly had their identifying marks rubbed off. I'll send you a decorative tube for the cost of postage - about $4 in the US. I'll tell you how to make it light up, too, free of charge. For another $25 or so, you could build a CMoy around it. Heck, a CMoy will give you about 35mW of power. You could have an amp with five times the power and a decorative tube for about $30.


 
After reading the above, you have to question the questions, and the posters personal interests and technical acumen or knowledge on the matter, especially since the vast majority of us guessed it was a hybrid amp, and Erik instead, decided to support the notion that Ken was fooling us with a phoney product that used a tube for nothing more than "show". A bit of a bold and libel claim, more so considering it's towards one of the sites main sponsors. 
 
In any case, I'm not a fan of witch hunt type forum circles, so again, in the interests of the thread, I suggest we ignore all further personal attachments or posts directed at posters instead of the amp. It's getting a bit out of hand and off topic.
 
 
I'm glad Vinnie has the amp now to post the relevant tests. I'm with Skylab on voting for 32, 50, 300 and 600!
 
 
On a side note, I'm assuming all the recent (of which there have been quite a few) portable tube amps are actually hybrids.
 
Aug 25, 2011 at 4:30 PM Post #180 of 456
 
Quote:
Currawong, the manufacturer's sales lit claims it is a tube amp, not a hybrid.

If the sales lit accurately describes a product, that's fine. The sales lit should give full measurements, as well. Especially if measurements are given for other devices sold by the same manufacturer.

Quote:
"The Continental encorperates a tube voltage gain section followed by a discrete transistor current output stage to drive headphones."
 
That sounds like an accurate description of hybrid amp to me, even if they misspelled incorporates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moodyrn /img/forum/go_quote.gifGrokit Your post is misleading, that info has been recently updated. Of course now it's obvious that's it's a hybrid, but a couple of days ago that's not what the description stated. I was advertised as a tube amp, and like Frank said, I've never seen a hybrid advertised as a tube amp. Actually the description stated that it was tube powered. A hybrid is not tube powered. I'm glad they have finally updated the description. But it's still lacking, but at least a step in the right direction.

 
 
It's not misleading at all, I was merely following UE's post saying that the description was not accurate, when at the time he said that it clearly was, as you said for a couple of days. Also, well more than a couple of days ago I had asserted how obvious it was to me, a non-engineer with limited knowledge of amplifier technology, that this amp was incorporating hybrid technology.
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Now that the description has been updated, why can't we all move on to something more constructive like listening impressions.
 

 
 

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