[KimChee]

Very comfortable I listened to them for about 3 hours yesterday.  My whole ear is in the earcup.  I was afraid these would bore me, but I'm really enjoying them.

 

[CantScareMe]

That's a fair take on the ed8 i guess, electropop. There not astonishing in any regard to my ears, but I jusy feel, personally, they're always consistently good. I think uncle eric thinks of these as blinged up beats (err, like beats need more bling?!)

kimchee. Glad you like and find them comfortable but not surprised! Believe me, the more you use the more comfortable they become up till the point where every other headphone is simply nasty on your head (except a few- d7k or k271 for me).

 

[headed]

Hi,
I have had the AKG K550 for some two weeks now. I had the Beyer DT770 pro, still have it, by it has been put away. The K550 are so more refreshing and open in sound. I never thought that I would give in to use another headphone than the 770 pro, but ...
 
Regarding "Anyone else with K550 revelations..?", the headphone just continue to impress and surprise you in a happy way. But it does not mean it is perfect. In fact, if something is to be mentioned that is not at its best, it is what CantScareMe discussed above. In complex passages (plenty of instruments simultaneously) it does not resolve as much as the dt770 pro. It can sound a little "distressed" then. Well, I always listen at loud volumes, it is perhaps only noticeable then. The 770 pro has always been know as a resolving can, but really, this is the only area I can come up with that is not perfect with the K550. Otherwise Í have never heard its like. Remember it must not leak - make sure it is fit properly. (Do you have plenty hair and/or beard - shave it off    Just press the cans firmly a second or two, then I think the main leakage is gone). You will immediatel hear the difference. A very nice feature with this can is that it stays at the angle you fix it at. Very nice.
 
//Cheers

 

[Robn13]

Hello Can't Scare Me and thank you for your informative, professional, and helpful posts. Being willing and patient enough to deal with noobs 

 says a lot about your quality as a person, whatever about the 550.
 
I think I killed a big thread on these forums

, the one on the Shure 940s. My posts can be read starting on Pg. 218. I was responding to another excellent poster, dweaver, and his impressions of the 940. He was very calm and humorous, yet highly intelligent and informative.  YES, as a noob I look for guys like you as you seem to be unbiased and realize that it is ALL subjective. Thanks again.
 
Here is what I put in my first post. I am looking for a "bright, dynamic, energizing, and FUN" headphone. I thought there might be a consensus view of what this might be in the under $500-600 range. Like you, for reasons of isolation and public use, I am confining myself to closed cans now. It makes fiscal sense to have a good headphone do double duty as a portable rig too if this is possible. And yes, the Senn Sig Pro could be in my near future if I have a physical experience usually associated with another activity when I listen to them.
 
I also realize that because of our inability to control source material and the unique nature of our individual ears, what sounds good to you might not sound good to me. For that reason I am not in search of the perfect "neutral" grail, I want what I described above. I don't CARE if the sound is colored or engineered, IF it sounds good and (very important) is not fatiguing. I used the "TOP GUN" example. Having listened to the real thing MANY times, I can tell you the frequencies and db level make it a seriously distressing auditory experience. Yet  with good home theater speakers playing loud enough to literally vibrate the walls, the opening sequence in the movie made the hair on the back of my neck stand up (on my hair cells too 

).
 
So what do you think. Is the 550 for me or, like Carlos, you would recommend the Denons or something else?
 
Cheers Mate and thanks again! 

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

I am looking for a "bright, dynamic, energizing, and FUN" headphone.

 
So what do you think. Is the 550 for me
 
 

 
Dynamic, energizing and fun are not the words I'd use to describe K550's.  I'd rather use words like analytical, cold, flat and boring.
 
Denon D2000's would probably be a better choice under 500$. Or Grado RS2.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

 
Dynamic, energizing and fun are not the words I'd use to describe K550's.  I'd rather use words like analytical, cold, flat and boring.
 
Denon D2000's would probably be a better choice under 500$. Or Grado RS2.

Boring and cold? Eh, we might not appreciate music the same way.
 
D2000 are second to the most boring headphones I've ever heard. Coloration and hash like that makes everything sound monotonic and flabby. That's sound you're getting, not music.
 
Must also depend on the music... I could never imagine myself listening to prog, jazz and the sorts with a Denon, since they do have some serious issues distinguishing crucial musical information. 
 

 

[Robn13]

Quote:

 
Dynamic, energizing and fun are not the words I'd use to describe K550's.  I'd rather use words like analytical, cold, flat and boring.
 
Denon D2000's would probably be a better choice under 500$. Or Grado RS2.

This is exactly what I was afraid I would hear. Thanks. The RS2 is open and Cant scare me says the Denons may as well be. If I'm ONLY going to use the phones at home, fine, open is ok, but then I want around the ears for greater comfort than an on ear can provide. It seems like anybody can do a good open can.
 
 What about the Senn Amperior? Tyll says it's a worthy upgrade and flat out the best he has heard, quite a statement given ljokerl's excellent reviews on the subject. Again, an analytical "professional" phone. So what (closed) will suck me in and put a smile on my face?

Or, it just doesn't exist yet in a closed can?

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

Boring and cold? Eh, we might not appreciate music the same way.
 

 
I don't know, for me, K550's are just too flat and cold sounding for anything else but acoustic or female vocals. Maybe boring is the wrong word to describe, analytical would be a more accurate term to use, people can then decide whether that's boring or fun. But they're definitely not "dynamic" or "energizing". I could never use them for rock, metal, pop, classical, electronic, jazz. They just lack the punch and body to sound good. Luckily, I have Ultrasone HFi2400's for those genres now.
 
For me, K550's have the typical AKG syndrome. They sound like a piece of equipment that want's to be used a monitoring tool in the studio, not like something you'd use sitting next to a fireplace in a cozy sofa listening to some tunes.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

 
I don't know, for me, K550's are just too flat and cold sounding for anything else but acoustic or female vocals. Maybe boring is the wrong word to describe, analytical would be a more accurate term to use, people can then decide whether that's boring or fun. But they're definitely not "dynamic" or "energizing". I could never use them for rock, metal, pop, classical, electronic, jazz. They just lack the punch and body to sound good. Luckily, I have Ultrasone HFi2400's for those genres now.
 
For me, K550's have the typical AKG syndrome. They sound like a piece of equipment that want's to be used a monitoring tool in the studio, not like something you'd use sitting next to a fireplace in a cozy sofa listening to some tunes.

 
People often confuse dynamics with serious coloration or thump. The K550 are actually very dynamic. You can distinguish differences in volume quite easily, whether it was a crash cymbal or background harmonics by a piano played (lower in volume). There's no hash to mask the low level information. I can listen to a sax solo and hear all sorts of squeaks and otherwise non-relevant information as well, that in relative is low in volume. 
 
It energizes me to hear differences in timing, those fast 32 notes, differences in pitch... All of these are something you find in melodically and rhythmically rich music, all of which are often (some always) masked by a D2000 or Ultrasones (I have experience with an ED8 and ED9 and quick listens to some of the lower end ones). It would never energize me NOT to hear that information, the fundamental of music. 
 
Regarding your last paragraph: they're exactly the kind of headphones I'd be listening there, since I want to hear the music but smoothly. These are wicked smooth, amazing for male vocals and distinguish a lot of musical information. Studio has headphones for many different purposes: vocal tracking (vintage Fostex are common), "hash" tracking (colored often bright studio headphones), reference (usually a balanced and articulate headphone), "grot-box" like reference (sound utterly horrible to give a taste what the majority would be hearing)... To name a few. 
 
Sorry to come on like this, but I just disagreed on everything you said 

 

 

[CantScareMe]

 



Quote:

Hello Can't Scare Me and thank you for your informative, professional, and helpful posts. Being willing and patient enough to deal with noobs 

 says a lot about your quality as a person, whatever about the 550.
 
I think I killed a big thread on these forums

, the one on the Shure 940s. My posts can be read starting on Pg. 218. I was responding to another excellent poster, dweaver, and his impressions of the 940. He was very calm and humorous, yet highly intelligent and informative.  YES, as a noob I look for guys like you as you seem to be unbiased and realize that it is ALL subjective. Thanks again.
 

 
That is very very kind of you to say that. Thank you.
 
I'm probably a noob in loads of areas in the eyes of many headfiers as well. I've stayed well clear of open cans (except a few demo's with the senn hd600/650) and i've always lived on a small desk, so my amp and dac experience hasn't been particularly high end either-  no room for large sized dac's, amps and the sort.
All that's important really is that one, like yourself, asks questions after achieving a satisfactory level of background knowledge- so you know which questions to ask, know of an idea on what you're looking for and so on. 'Noobs' really, in my eyes anyway, post on page 250 of a thread say about the fiio e9 driving the shure 840's really well, with the question 'does the e9 drive shure 840's??!!'
 
Lol, i read the shure thread. You didn't kill anything....don't worry...!!

 
 
Quote:

Here is what I put in my first post. I am looking for a "bright, dynamic, energizing, and FUN" headphone. I thought there might be a consensus view of what this might be in the under $500-600 range. Like you, for reasons of isolation and public use, I am confining myself to closed cans now. It makes fiscal sense to have a good headphone do double duty as a portable rig too if this is possible. And yes, the Senn Sig Pro could be in my near future if I have a physical experience usually associated with another activity when I listen to them.
 
I also realize that because of our inability to control source material and the unique nature of our individual ears, what sounds good to you might not sound good to me. For that reason I am not in search of the perfect "neutral" grail, I want what I described above. I don't CARE if the sound is colored or engineered, IF it sounds good and (very important) is not fatiguing. I used the "TOP GUN" example. Having listened to the real thing MANY times, I can tell you the frequencies and db level make it a seriously distressing auditory experience. Yet  with good home theater speakers playing loud enough to literally vibrate the walls, the opening sequence in the movie made the hair on the back of my neck stand up (on my hair cells too 

).
 
So what do you think. Is the 550 for me or, like Carlos, you would recommend the Denons or something else?
 
Cheers Mate and thanks again! 

Let's take direct from amazons storefront as todays guideprice. At the minute the k550 is on for £185. The denon d7000 £620. The ultrasone ed8 £1150. 
 
I have all three here. Which one am I listening to right now- for pure musical enjoyment by the way. Yep, the k550.
 
I'll also say from the outset that I don't believe that you can have a true opinion of a headphones sound quality unless you've used it with more than one half decent amplifiers/dacs and have used it in a quite environment for at least a hundred hours (after burn in), with a decent mix of music. For me that means to own it or have it as an extended demo for home use. Even more important is comparing in a/b comparisons to other headphones that you're familiar with. Headphones are a strictly 100% comparitive based market. The beats pro has the best bass definition, treble, natural timbre, accuracy, speed, headstaging and all else if every other headphone ceases to exist!! It's very important to realise that all properties of a headphone in terms of sound quality are only so as they have been compared to what else is out there. Strictly relative. Anyway....
 
...based on the info you've given let's see how the k550 stocks up. Again i'm comparing it to all that i've heard in my experience. There may be some killer closed headphones out there for 100 bucks that may satisfy all that i've looked for that i've never come across.
 
I'll give the k550 rough percentages on how they fit your needs
 
''bright, dynamic, energizing, and FUN" 
60-70%
-Fun- means nothing in reality, but most associate it with plenty of bass. I mean PLENTY. K550 isn't one of those. Neither is the shure 940.
 
-bright- well the k550 isn't dark. I won't say it's overly bright either. as it has nothing resembling to a bumped up high range. There are no real spikes that i can detect. The ed8 has more of a treble emphasis. The denon d2k have even more. Yet, even more (after 100hr burn in) are the d7000. These are collecting dust at the miniute as their treble is pretty unbearable. Thin, tinny and sharp, agressive, sibilant prone- but this may change with burn in or with use. Actually quite similar to the dt770 which i loath by the way. I'd take a bose ae2 over these any day of the week. The shure 940's and the t5p's had noticable spikes that made the high range/bass range sometimes quite funny. In conclusion on the scale of bright and dark, the k550 leans towards the brighter side.
 
-dynamic/energizing- the denon's are really good at this. Especially the d7000. The ed8 is a close second. You see the main thing that may be taken to be as a disadvantage to the akg is it's thinner presentation. So it may be percieved to suffer in these respects and not always deliver the true tone and timbre of what's in the music. For me the akg satisfy that criteria AWESOMLY. I'll keep the reason very very simple. Fatigue. If you are going to be listening for more than 3 hours a day, an initially dynamic/energizing, unneautral, v shaped can would become something that you despise. The k550 i find unfatiguing no matter how good or aweful the recording is. Regardless of price that is..    
 
'do double duty as a portable rig too'
60%
I've commented on this before (I think on post 2 in this thread). Whilst the k550 can't be used in the general manner of a portable headphone, they certainly are transportable- driven off a decent mp3 player, folding flat, closed, isolating, non leaking.... Just use them whilst sitting, or standing. Stationary really.
 
 
'I thought there might be a consensus'
0%
Welcome to headfi
 
'Like you, for reasons of isolation and public use, I am confining myself to closed cans now.'
90%
Forget the denons. The d5k and the d7k have the best comfort around but they are not that special where their sq supercedes what is the first most important consideration when buying headphones. What comes first to sound quality/ comfort and all else:
FORM FACTOR.
This is where you divide all the headphones around into categories that may look like:
earbuds
universal iems
custom iems
portable closed supraaural
portable open supraaural
full size closed circumaaural
full size open circumaaural
 
I guess your definiton of close would include a decent serving of isolation. You won't get this with the denon's as testified unanimously by the thousands. It's a very low level- like i buds or something.They don't leak out that much though (compared to open headphones) so i guess that's why i've spent time with them
 
 
'what sounds good to you might not sound good to me........I don't CARE if the sound is colored or engineered, IF it sounds good and (very important) is not fatiguing. 
85%
That's very specific. This is the final thing that makes me recommend the k550 to you. A colored sound will become fatiguing. I've mentioned many times in the past and the other's with vast experience with headphones also comment on the k550s' flatness. 
 
 
Last points:
- Some slight effort needs to be taken with the k550 to achieve a fit. I did this whilst burning in- so i didn't measure any burn in effect. Perhaps burn them in for 50hrs or something for the sake of it. Can't hurt can it..?
 
-Also, a decent enough amplifier needs to be used. The samsung galaxy s with voodoo kernel installed (using stock rom- don't trust alternative ones) is a beast. Compared to say the mstage and the hrt music streamer or nfb 12, it is outperformed but not by that much. 
 
-have a look around what other closed headphones you may like. Shure 840 might be quite a good one actually. Better than the 940 in my opinion. Even try to demo some if you cans if you can. 
 
 
 
 
Okay, hope that helps. 
I'm spending less time on headfi now (or trying to) as my exam period starts soon- so I might not be able to give fast responses at the minute, so sorry for that
 
But thanks again for your kind words

 

[CantScareMe]

derbigpr
 
I mean completely no offense by what i'm going to say- so it shouldn't be taken in that manner. But it's just an observation:
 
I assume you are using both the k701 and the k550 out of the project headbox/ little dot mkv. I think both have high impedance outputs and are only meant for hard to drive phones. Plus 200ohms. If one wants a standard amp, not too fussed about stellar sq and only out there to avoid problems- then a 'neutral' amp is always best:
fiio e9 and nfb12 are two main examples. A small change of the opamp brings the mstage to quite a flat level. I'd say the hdp is a tad on the brighter side, but still aiming towards a flat uncolored output.
 

 
Frequency vs impedance
The flatter this curve the better the response to a wide variety of amplifier output impedances.
 
To anyone wondering what this means, amplifier headphone outputs have an associated impedance value. (It can be measured manually, but i'm no good at electronic engineering, although i could get quite a few people somewhere to give me a frighteningly indepth explanation of what this all means. Or start from scratch- the mathematics (partial differential equations) of all this. Not interested.) Anyway, the headphone also has an associated impedance normaly given on the back of the box. The headphone impedance is meant to be at least 8 times more than the amplifier's impedance. Otherwise you could hear nasty effects of the impedance mismatch.
 
Any bumps you see on this graph highlight potential problem areas. The d7k show some of this in the bass range and the k550 (red curve) in the high range. From the graph the k701 would exhibit some serious problems in its high range, if impedance mismatched. Now all this is theory that's only meant to offer a prediction to what you see in real life. In other words there's always an associated probability involved induced from a massive range of other variables. I think this small mini model is rather good- based on my experiences which i haven't the time to go into now.
 
Quick output impedances:
m stage: 5 ohms
nfb 12: 2 or 3 ohms
fiio e9: 10 ohms (1/4 jack)
fiio e10: must be very low
objective 2: 0
nuforce hdp: 10 ohms
project headbox/ little dot mkv: over 30 ohms each i think. I would suspect the mkv to be actually higher than that.
 
Quick headphone impedances:
denon d2/5/7k: 25ohm
akg k550: 32 ohm
ultrasone ed8: 30 ohm.
akg k271: 55 ohm
 
You can see why I've kept my eye on this impedance stuff as my current crop of phones are all low impedance ones. And I have So with a fiio e9 or nuforce hdp a rule of thumb is that headphones with an output of more than 80 ohms is ideal to avoid mismatch issues. I haven't liked the fiio with the denons That is all that i'm saying. Not that the fiio e9 can drive perfectly 2000ohm vintage headphones. No inference can be made of the sort or of any other sort- I hope i didn't need to clear that!!
 
Anyway, that was a point i thought was worth making.
 
 
 
 

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

derbigpr
 
I mean completely no offense by what i'm going to say- so it shouldn't be taken in that manner. But it's just an observation:
 
I assume you are using both the k701 and the k550 out of the project headbox/ little dot mkv. I think both have high impedance outputs and are only meant for hard to drive phones. Plus 200ohms. If one wants a standard amp, not too fussed about stellar sq and only out there to avoid problems- then a 'neutral' amp is always best:
fiio e9 and nfb12 are two main examples. A small change of the opamp brings the mstage to quite a flat level. I'd say the hdp is a tad on the brighter side, but still aiming towards a flat uncolored output.
 

 
Frequency vs impedance
The flatter this curve the better the response to a wide variety of amplifier output impedances.
 
To anyone wondering what this means, amplifier headphone outputs have an associated impedance value. (It can be measured manually, but i'm no good at electronic engineering, although i could get quite a few people somewhere to give me a frighteningly indepth explanation of what this all means. Or start from scratch- the mathematics (partial differential equations) of all this. Not interested.) Anyway, the headphone also has an associated impedance normaly given on the back of the box. The headphone impedance is meant to be at least 8 times more than the amplifier's impedance. Otherwise you could hear nasty effects of the impedance mismatch.
 
Any bumps you see on this graph highlight potential problem areas. The d7k show some of this in the bass range and the k550 (red curve) in the high range. From the graph the k701 would exhibit some serious problems in its high range, if impedance mismatched. Now all this is theory that's only meant to offer a prediction to what you see in real life. In other words there's always an associated probability involved induced from a massive range of other variables. I think this small mini model is rather good- based on my experiences which i haven't the time to go into now.
 
Quick output impedances:
m stage: 5 ohms
nfb 12: 2 or 3 ohms
fiio e9: 10 ohms (1/4 jack)
fiio e10: must be very low
objective 2: 0
nuforce hdp: 10 ohms
project headbox/ little dot mkv: over 30 ohms each i think. I would suspect the mkv to be actually higher than that.
 
Quick headphone impedances:
denon d2/5/7k: 25ohm
akg k550: 32 ohm
ultrasone ed8: 30 ohm.
akg k271: 55 ohm
 
You can see why I've kept my eye on this impedance stuff as my current crop of phones are all low impedance ones. And I have So with a fiio e9 or nuforce hdp a rule of thumb is that headphones with an output of more than 80 ohms is ideal to avoid mismatch issues. I haven't liked the fiio with the denons That is all that i'm saying. Not that the fiio e9 can drive perfectly 2000ohm vintage headphones. No inference can be made of the sort or of any other sort- I hope i didn't need to clear that!!
 
Anyway, that was a point i thought was worth making.
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
I know about that and I am aware of a poor damping factor between low impedance headphones and my amps. I bought all my amps for HD650's, so I didn't care much about output impedance, and after I bought my lower impedance headphones, it was too late to change the amp.   But remember, I also I have Ultrasone Hfi2400, which are also low impedance, but they sound great out of both of my amps, nothing is lacking, sound is very controlled, very punchy and dynamic. Same with Sennheiser HD558's.  And, I also have a Asus Xonar ST card, and the headphone amp output impedance on that unit is less than 10 Ohm I think, but still, both the K550 and Q701 never sound engaging, and K550 never have more bass than Q701's, as they should apparently.  I actually find the bass impact of K550's to be very weak. The clarity of sound, mids, highs and sub bass are great, but impact of mid bass is lacking, and that is a big issue for me with any rock, pop, electronic, metal, etc.
 
I don't know, but honestly, I don't think my lack of enthusiasm when it comes to AKG sound is caused by amps. Its just a special sound. It works perfectly for some music, but for other it doesn't.  I mean, recently, I've been comparing Q701's and HFi2400's a lot, and I prefer the sound of Ultrasones with every type of music, with any of my sources. 701's just sound dull and flat in comparison, even unrealistic. In direct comparison to 2400's, both Q701 and K550 seem to have a weird tonality. It's not even about bass, because HFi's dont have much more of it, but the way the sound is delivered is very different. 701's take music away, it feels distant, and I absolutely dislike the unrealistic soundstage that they have,  no center image, sound always feels like its coming from left and right. K550 are slightly better in that regard, but Ultrasones are in another league.
 
In a few days I'll get my Asus Essence One  DAC/amp,  it should be pretty high end stuff, and it definitely has a low output impedance, so I'll see how the AKG's will act then.
 

 

[KG Jag]

Quote:

Hi,
I have had the AKG K550 for some two weeks now. I had the Beyer DT770 pro, still have it, by it has been put away. The K550 are so more refreshing and open in sound. I never thought that I would give in to use another headphone than the 770 pro, but ...
...
 
Remember it must not leak - make sure it is fit properly. (Do you have plenty hair and/or beard - shave it off    Just press the cans firmly a second or two, then I think the main leakage is gone). You will immediatel hear the difference. A very nice feature with this can is that it stays at the angle you fix it at. Very nice.
 
//Cheers

This is a serious design flaw and/or weakness.  I'm approaching 60, still have most of my hair and a beard.  This can would never had gotten to even first bass in the late 60's and 70's!  It appears to be a finicky as trying to find the right scuba mask if you have a beard or mustache.
 

 

[CantScareMe]

Them ultrasones are 70 ohms, so it's smallish I guess. I'm not sure if them ultrasones would be at optimal performance level, but if what one looks for is a hard, punchy bass line then impedance mismatching won't do no harm to the ultrasones (their headroom graph shows a sensitivity to impedance mismatch in that bass area). It's not about things lacking- it's more of a case of things getting messed up. Like the fiio e9 with the d7k. To me this gives a poor evaluation of what the fiio is capable of- as there are so many better pairings with different headphones. Ive never told anyone ever to go and get a super amp. Just a suitable one.
 
I looked into the asus stuff a lot when i first went on an amp/dac hunt. Never really appealed to me. I remember vaugely trying a headfi headphone off a pc's asus card. Made me laugh. I won't say no more as it does what it's meant to do, so I can't criticise it. But the essence one really looks promising. I'm not too sure on how good the in built amp is, but it must be a great dac. A nice, well designed all in one piece of kit, that hopefully isn't bugged with issues like many of the other ones are. Yulond d100 (headache to get this thing working. Didn't even hear its sound capability).
 
Just the dimensions and this, with the position of the headphone jack put me off it:
261.33 x 230 x 60.65 mm ( L x W x H ) from their website. Kind of like a chunky cuboid shape. If either the width or length were slimmer (like the nfb 12/11 or the m stage, then it'd probably be in front of me now!) 

 

[Kosmikat]

Just wanted to say thanks for an excellent read. I'm coming from a pair of Grado SR80i and need something that isn't going to tell everyone I'm listening to some old fogey '70s prog at my new job. I'd got things down to the Denon 2000 (5000 if I could run to the extra) but I'm definitely putting the 550s on the audition list now. To be honest, even if they're not quite as good as the Denons, the leakage issue and the fact that I'll need to transport them to and from work I think will give them an advantage. Going to be running whatever I go for through an iPod classic/Fiio E17 combo.
 
Anyway, thanks again for an informative read.