[Questhate]

@CantScareMe -- This is getting ridiculous and way off-topic. You're trying to disprove acoustic theory armed with nothing but faulty logic. Just because enclosure damping is a much bigger factor in orthodynamic drivers because of the backwave does not mean that enclosure resonances are not a factor in dynamic drivers. 
 
If you want measurable proof, take a look at this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/596028/joe-grado-hp1000-modifications
 
Notice the HP1000 is a dynamic driver. Notice the resonant energy around 2K-3K (resonance in this area causes that "midrange shout" to vocals). Notice the damping using foam. Notice the post-mod measurements. Notice that there's much less resonance after the damping. Also, please note that this dramatic, measurable effect can be seen on an open headphone where enclosure resonances are less problematic than closed headphones.
 
If you want to discuss further, can you please start a thread in the Sound Science forum to bring this thread back on topic? This thread was locked once, let's not get it locked again. 
 

---

 
Back on topic -- I don't really have anything to add to this thread since I haven't heard this headphone yet. But I am planning on getting a pair very soon.
 
Part of the reason is because of RD's impressions on it. Even though he has issues with it overall, and even though I trust his ears, there seem to be enough redeeming qualities, and he and I don't necessarily have the same priorities (ie. he hates Grados and teases me for liking them, and that does not diminish their appeal to me). Know thyself. 
 
The other reason is because these things just LOOK gorgeous. I've always loved the way AKGs looked (go ahead and call me shallow 

), and that's enough of a reason for me to give it a shot. 
 

 

[Katun]

Quote:

The other reason is because these things just LOOK gorgeous. I've always loved the way AKGs looked (go ahead and call me shallow 

), and that's enough of a reason for me to give it a shot. 

 
I think that's the biggest reason I gave it a shot too. But it turned out I really liked the sound.

 

[CantScareMe]

'faulty logic.'
 
not really. Carry on via pm if you think it's faulty. Because I can't see it.
 
What got me going was that RD claimed he could basically see with his eyes if a headphone is going to sound bad, just by looking at the cups. If you've followed these last few pages- that's literally the only thing that annoyed me. That's what them statements and logic were about- I don't believe that by seeing the cups alone one could deduce that resonance is going to be an real issue on a headphone. Nothing more, nothing less. It's this very very specific point in his acoustic theory that I'm trying to explain to everyone why i don't believe it. That's all. I just wanted to explain my viewpoint that i'd mentioned previously and logic/proof by contradiction seemed the only other way to do it in. Nothing more, nothing less.
The stuff about ortho's suffering from resonances is very separate from them statements. I even give it in a different color.
 
Note, by 'nothing more, nothing less' 
- I've never said that you can't hear affects of modding the cups. It may be better, it WILL be different
- I've never said that resonance as an entity does not exist. Mathematically that would be completely false given what goes on in systems as such.
- I've only concerned myself with trying to explain why I, my ears, can't detect bad resonances. And i haven't seen convincing evidence from those who say their ears clearly, in a big way, can. Remember, manifest resonance presence in akg's k550 was the main reason rythmdevils gave for it being trumped by the m50's. Remember also that these large adverse resonance reports came from headphone evaluation without using it from a suitable setup (amp/dac. especially amp), presumably without even a mild burn in, not to mention other very likely at play factors such as anti-akg feelings.
 
 
'Thread off topic?.......'
Fair enough. 
 
It was locked- looking around now it's presumably because of the stuff from a couple of insulting posts yesterday night (?). I didn't know that- but as I've said I try my very best not to respond to insults or dish explicit ones out myself. 
 
I'm not going to talk anymore about this sound science stuff. I've always seen them sound science thread as kind of a lost cause- the scientific (in this case basic mathematical/logical) training of headfiers discussing in these threads just varies too much. I'm not going to say what I think about the validity of these graphical representations. You probably could guess what line i'd take.
 
Obviously though, this is not entitled as a physics/maths/logic forum so the science being like this is only a normal thing. I have regular discussions at a very very high (the university would say it's the highest) level on maths/ statistical and mathsy physics topics and I certainly don't come to headfi as an extrapolation to this series. 
I and fortunately many others simply use what's inbetween the left and right cups of our headphones when we listen to them- our ears along with our brains.
 
 
.........So me too, back on topic
Questhate, I look forward to reading your impressions.

 

[Curly21029]

If I can be so bold, a few thoughts concerning this (somewhat ludicrous, in my opinion) K550 flareup:
 
My arrival to Head-Fi precedes the establishment date of this account by a few years.  In my time here, I've come to learn that criticisms are often overblown and are more likely to be perpetuated by the community at large than praise.  That isn't to say that contrasting opinions aren't helpful and persistently immediate consensus would be a more desirable trend, because they are and it wouldn't be.  Differences in preferences, hearing capabilities, complimentary equipment and content will ensure that absolute unanimity will thankfully never exist.  That being said, RD's opinions of this headphone are certainly valid as are CSM's... and Tyll's.
 
Back to my original point, I do find it concerning that some are actively choosing to write off the K550 or are seemingly allowing their own opinion to be heavily influenced by RD's assessment.  He's a tenured member of the community and has gained deserved notoriety, but does his word carry more weight than Tyll's?  The latter published a rather glowing review and, in contrast to RD, made no mention of "plastic" tonality or excess resonance.  Furthermore, Tyll states that it presents "the upper mid-range/low treble beautifully and (gives) voices their full throat" and that they have "somewhat better upper-mid and low treble performance" than the D2000.  RD points to these frequencies as the K550's most problematic.  Two diametric opinions, both equally valid.
 
Continuing, the following statement is in no way intended to discredit or call out RD, but he and InnerFidelity have an established history.  I can recall at least two instances (the DIY measurements and the vintage AKG article from last year) where he was credited by Tyll within the article.  It's entirely plausible that he just happened to skip the K550 writeup, but the headphones are pictured with the cups disassembled within the review.  For someone with prior experience with the general tonal effects of damping and cup materials, perhaps there were predisposed "flaws" that were mentally fabricated upon seeing this and prior to actually auditioning the headphone...?  I bring this up as a possible example that the assessments of others, while helpful and worthy of proper reference, should always be taken with a large grain of salt and drawing from past parallels can be tricky as there are few certainties in the world of audiophilia.
 
Fortunately, our little hobby has gone somewhat mainstream and, because of this, accessibility to quality (and not-so quality) equipment is at an all-time high.  In the US, the K550 is available through a major retailer (Best Buy) that's established locally to nearly everyone and provides a money back, restocking fee-less return window.  I can't speak for international enthusiasts, but for most of those living stateside there's zero reason why they can't do a proper in-home audition of these and find out, first-hand, whether or not it's the right headphone for them.
 
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to get back to enjoying my "crap headphones" as they tear through this Bruno Pronsato track with top-notch transient performance. 

 

[draven5494]

I gave the 550s a quick listen at BestBuy yesterday and my overall impression was that they were very detailed but the sound was quite thin. I could hear the bass, it was tight. Ther just wasn't much of it. However, I noticed that the top of the ear pads weren't even touching my head. So, the fit may have been part of the problem here.

I also listened to the A900x headphones and they suprised me. They sounded quite good and definitely had a beefier low-end compared to the 550s... to my ears anyway. The overall sound of the A900x's was a bit less detailed but quite pleasing.

Of course I listened to these in a noisy BestBuy. So, conditions were less than ideal.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

It was locked- looking around now it's presumably because of the stuff from a couple of insulting posts yesterday night (?). I didn't know that- but as I've said I try my very best not to respond to insults or dish explicit ones out myself. 
 
I'm not going to talk anymore about this sound science stuff. I've always seen them sound science thread as kind of a lost cause- the scientific (in this case basic mathematical/logical) training of headfiers discussing in these threads just varies too much. I'm not going to say what I think about the validity of these graphical representations. You probably could guess what line i'd take.

 
I'm going to point this out once, after which it's not up for discussion, unless you want to PM me about it. This thread was locked while I removed some personal attacks and other bickering. It is not acceptable by anyone, ever, to try and attack people personally to win an argument.  I understand the views of everyone in these arguments. It is both possible to have serious criticism as well as strong appreciation of a pair of headphones (or anything else) on these forums when people have the sense not to take other people's negative opinions of a product as an attack against them personally.
 
 
Quote:

Obviously though, this is not entitled as a physics/maths/logic forum so the science being like this is only a normal thing. I have regular discussions at a very very high (the university would say it's the highest) level on maths/ statistical and mathsy physics topics and I certainly don't come to headfi as an extrapolation to this series. 
I and fortunately many others simply use what's inbetween the left and right cups of our headphones when we listen to them- our ears along with our brains.

 
As we used to say in elementary (primary) school: "Do you want a medal or a chest to pin it on?" I'm going to tell you now: Ditch the attitude. As special as you may think you are, you are just a member here like everyone else and you need to respect other people as you would expect in return.
 
Again, this is not up for discussion in this thread. If you want to discuss it, PM me. Any replies or further off-topic discussion will be removed.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

I gave the 550s a quick listen at BestBuy yesterday and my overall impression was that they were very detailed but the sound was quite thin. I could hear the bass, it was tight. Ther just wasn't much of it. However, I noticed that the top of the ear pads weren't even touching my head. So, the fit may have been part of the problem here.

 
Perhaps the K550 is too light with not enough clamping in order to keep a consistent sound. I have a bit of this problem with the Beyer DT770 Pro.

 

[litster]

I received my K550 2 days ago. The only comparison I have is a pair of HD 650 that is 1.5 weeks old.

The build is very solid and it looks good. I'd say it is a bit better built than HD 650 by a hair because it has more metal. K550's clamp force is much lower than the HD 650 though. K550's foam is very soft, more so than the 650's. The fake leather is also very soft.

Initially, when i listened for the first few minutes, I thought there was something wrong with my K550. But it got better quickly. I hope with more usage it will get broken in even better, like others have said earlier in this thread.

At the moment I am listening from just headphone out from my computer and my Zune HD, driven by a high gain 18v cmoybb for the 650 and a mid gain dual rail splitter 9v cmoybb for the K550.

Right now I like HD 650 more, but that is an unfair comparison. I do get good bass from K550 (without Bass Boost on). proper seal is very important. Without a good seal, it sounds is very thin, like IEMs-not-seated-properly thin. My head is medium sized (should measure it ), pushing in on the cups' edge in different places to get a good seal. Once seal achieved, they sound decent.

I will be receiving my ODAC soon. That should give me a better source than what I have now.

Question, how do you open up the K550? I want to open the cups to see inside, but I don't want to damage them. Thanks.

 

[Face]

Quote:

Question, how do you open up the K550? I want to open the cups to see inside, but I don't want to damage them. Thanks.

I'd like to know too.

 

[imackler]

Couple quick questions guys. I'm looking to buy something and get it ordered quick! 

1. How do the mids compare to the K702? I always thought the K702 just felt lifeless... 
2. Where is the best price on these? Is it me or has the price jumped flat-lined kind of high? 
3. What genre do they soar with? I'm personally a classical guy, lots of strings and quartets. But what is your favorite genre with them? 
4. Small enough to fit in a backpack? I know they don't fold but are they only portable if you get a carrying case for them? 

Thanks! 

 

[faverodefavero]

I've NOT heard the K550, but for classical and string trios/quartets you should consider Sennheiser HD600 ("warm/smooth" with emphasis on lower frequencies), also Grado RS2i ("warm/smooth" with emphasis on higher frequencies), at this price range. That would be my take, anyways.
 
Now, I also love  the AKG K702 with classical and it is regarded as a good headphone for classical music, but you should know that - while I DO NOT think it's lifeless - the K702 has a very dynamic and fast bass that sometimes is just not strong and/or extended enough to hear low frequencies at their fullness. If you do not care so much for bass and slam though I really recommend that you, by all means, go with the K702 for classical it's the most neutral (it's not "warm/smooth" as the HD600 and RS2i, which I prefer for classical generally) headphone I've heard at this price range and should be considerably more detail revealing than the HD600 without being as harsh on highs as Grados tend to sound.
 
In the end, it's all a matter of preferences! Good luck.
 
Buy from B&H photo:
 
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/
 
Quote:

Couple quick questions guys. I'm looking to buy something and get it ordered quick! 

1. How do the mids compare to the K702? I always thought the K702 just felt lifeless... 
2. Where is the best price on these? Is it me or has the price jumped flat-lined kind of high? 
3. What genre do they soar with? I'm personally a classical guy, lots of strings and quartets. But what is your favorite genre with them? 
4. Small enough to fit in a backpack? I know they don't fold but are they only portable if you get a carrying case for them? 

Thanks! 

 

[imackler]

Quote:

 

 
Thanks for the reply and appreciate the recommendations! 
 
Still looking for someone who has heard the K550 though and might have time to answer a few questions from a couple posts back. 

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

 
Thanks for the reply and appreciate the recommendations! 
 
Still looking for someone who has heard the K550 though and might have time to answer a few questions from a couple posts back. 

The K550 is less bright than the K701 I owned. It more warm and very easy to drive. It has a wide sound stage and is very natural mid range and has better bass than the K701. It is excellent for classical music also. I use it for every genre and it plays well on both my solid state amps and also my CSP2 OTL. Excellent headphones priced for real world music lovers and IMO is a better phone than the K701 I owned and sold. Hope this helps answer some of your questions. No regrets owning this fine headphone. This is not a lifeless headphone it is very musical and ipod friendly for sure,

 

[purrin]

Quote:

Still, if you can provide your modded samples to Tyll or purrin for measurements, that'll be awesome (and you will shut some people up in the process! )

 
There is something strange going on with these headphones. WhenI heard them at Headroom table T.H.E. SHOW: Upon a certain musical passage, I jumped off my seat and immediately ripped the headphones off my head. I had to put on the HD650s on the rig next to me to restore my sanity. I'm sure RD will be sending me this modded pair soon. However, I doubt however skilled he is, he is going to be able to fix these.

 

[Katun]

Quote:

There is something strange going on with these headphones. WhenI heard them at Headroom table T.H.E. SHOW: Upon a certain musical passage, I jumped off my seat and immediately ripped the headphones off my head. I had to put on the HD650s on the rig next to me to restore my sanity. I'm sure RD will be sending me this modded pair soon. However, I doubt however skilled he is, he is going to be able to fix these.

 
Was it a certain frequency in the sound, or it's very tricky sounding soundstage?