[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Look, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I post graphs people say graphs are a bunch of elephant dung and what ultimately matters are subjective impressions. IMO, the K550 sound like an elephant crapped all over the place. They have the lean tonality of the early K701s but some odd Grado-esq oddities and peaks magnified several fold. For all we know, maybe I heard a bum unit. It happens from time to time. I don't mean to toot my horn, but as a DIY hobbyist, I've made speakers better sounding than most of the $30,000+ "high-end" mediocre sounding stuff displayed at shows. The only person who has measured more headphones than me is Tyll, and even then my approach is radically different from his. It doesn't take me (nor should it take anyone else) more than 20 seconds to identify show-stopping flaws of truly horrible and crappy headphones.
 
My sonic priorities are well known. I don't want to go deaf from treble peaks and ringing.

 
Ok, so you don't like the K550's sound signature..so move along and try something else. Don't make a big deal out of it. It's annoying when people on Head-Fi claim a headhone is crap yet don't even bother to say why or only heard it for 10 seconds or in a store demo. It makes you wonder what the heck the point even was.
 
If you're going to comment on a headphone at least leave better impressions or just don't even post.
 
Yeah, it's too bad the K550 doesn't have your perfect signature..some people actually like treble peaks or forward mids etc.
 
What's interesting is that I actually agree with some of the impressions you did finally post above. I kind of wish they were really as warm and full sounding as everyone claims. Mine certainly wasn't and this was on every amp I tried. I've been critical of the K550 too, but I tried to post the best impressions of them I could. I think I had them as soon as they were available. Kept my KRK KNS-8400 and sold the K550 immediately

 
My biggest complaint about the K550 is that $299 is a bit too high for the sound I heard. Figured many would love it, but just not my type of signature. I think the wholesale price is like $170 or something..that's crazy..I don't know if that's normal or what.

 

[Dyaems]

i agree if the k550 price is around 180 as well. they really don't sound like a 300usd headphone. no matter how many times i adjusted the k550 i still cant get any decent amount of bass in it, but i used a demo unit from the store so im not sure if it is already burned iin. and i still find that the k701 has more quantity bass than the k550. i used dx100 as source.
 
ymmv

 

[purrin]

Quote:

 
Not sure if you can answer this being the dedicated DIY'er you are, but is there a stock headphone you've heard that had treble you were satisfied with?
 
That question goes for RD too. I know he's around here somewhere...

 
The K701 treble is fine, although it has other issues such as being tilted upward and sounding too lean. SR007, SR009, HP1000, HD600, V-Moda M80 are also fine. HD650 is too laid back, but I'll take it anyways. The stock T50RP and HE500 have broad treble peaks near 10k which I find tolerable. DT990-600 treble is fine. I'm actually OK with HF2's wierd upper mids and lower treble, but its thick bass helps to mask these issues. Oddly enough, I also have no issues with the R10, W5000, SA5000, and W3000 treble.
 
I know RD is even more treble sensitive than me.
 
Honestly, I am wondering if there was something defective with the pair I listened to. I've seen these kind of disparities happen with headphones that tend to measure differently from unit to unit. For all we know, some unscrupulous manufacturer in China could have slipped in out-of-spec drivers. This stuff actually happens believe it or not.

 

[Katun]

Quote:

 
Ok, so you don't like the K550's sound signature..so move along and try something else. Don't make a big deal out of it. It's annoying when people on Head-Fi claim a headhone is crap yet don't even bother to say why or only heard it for 10 seconds or in a store demo. It makes you wonder what the heck the point even was.

 
What's even more annoying is when someone doesn't like a headphone and they go on and on about how much they hate it...

 

[Questhate]

Quote:

 
Ok, so you don't like the K550's sound signature..so move along and try something else. Don't make a big deal out of it. It's annoying when people on Head-Fi claim a headhone is crap yet don't even bother to say why or only heard it for 10 seconds or in a store demo. It makes you wonder what the heck the point even was.

 
FWIW, I don't have a dog in this fight since I have never heard these headphones. But as a neutral observer and prospective buyer, I find critical reviews especially valuable. Too often people that don't like headphones don't speak up, so these threads end up being 95% high praise by people who love to gush about their new toy. I've made my fair share of bad purchases based on the FOTM syndrome around these parts, so it's refreshing to see some "anti-hype" (to steal from purrin's signature) to balance the opinions. 
 
Not like I'm partial to any one side particularly either. I respect Purrin's CSD work and think they are a great contribution to the community. At the same time, I've read almost all of Katun's reviews (many of them multiple times) and highly respect his opinion -- and he likes these things. In the end, I just gotta let my own ears decide, which should go without saying.
 
I just find it interesting that people feel so personally insulted when someone else doesn't like a particular headphone that they like. I cringed while watching many people in this thread POUNCE all over Rhythmdevils a few days ago for taking the time to write his honest impression on these. Seriously, we're just having fun and talking headphones here. Not sure why everyone gets so worked up. 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
What's even more annoying is when someone doesn't like a headphone and they go on and on about how much they hate it...

 
I agree, sometimes people just do this just for the sake of bashing a headphone. It was always like this with the old K701 and DT-880. Now I guess it's the K550 (and M50 recently).
 
I actually would prefer that people constructively criticize a headphone. Some cannot take even the slightest criticism of their favorite headphone and I can't understand this! Nobody here ever agrees on what a headphone sounds like.
 
My favorite reviews are from those not afraid to post negative comments on a headphone, but not like the most recent comments found in this thread! Seriously, I think we can do better than post pictures of elephants pooping.
 
I love to pick apart all my headphones and very few of them are perfect. I'm pretty critical of my HD-598 and my old M50 at times, but I actually like them.
 
There's tons of headphones here people are raving about, but my impressions are basically like "how the heck can anyone like this crap". Maybe the K550 is that bad for a few rare people. I can't imagine it being THAT bad.
 
I bet Purrin's reaction to the K550 is like mine of the Kicker HP541. I actually gave it two chances though and even spent several hours modding it. What a waste! Even mods couldn't save it (for me). Lots of people love it though. Even a $20 headphone deserves more than 20 seconds IMO.
 
Maybe Purrin can try another pair and with his own favorite amps. I had an experience once where the first K240 Studio I had sounded like plasticy garbage(not resonance). Now the 2nd one is a headphone I've owned the longest and still like. The original one had to be a defect. It's possible someone's impressions can vary with different setups, so it's always worth another try. Or it could be that the K550 for Purrin is like a total opposite of his favorite sound signature. Mine is like the HD-650

 

[purrin]

Oh yeah, I did try the ATH-M50 next to the K550 too. No issues at all with the M50. But that's one of my favorite cheap closed cans.

 

[LFF]

tdockweiler, believe it or not, I have seen Purrin listen to a brand new headphone and within 10 seconds, draw a frequency response plot, give critical and accurate judgment of it's sonic qualities/flaws and THEN proceed to measure it. After processing his measurements on his uber-computer and measurement rig...guess what....the frequency response plot looked EXACTLY like the one he drew out.
 
There aren't many ears I would trust but I do trust Purrin's.
 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
FWIW, I don't have a dog in this fight since I have never heard these headphones. But as a neutral observer and prospective buyer, I find critical reviews especially valuable. Too often people that don't like headphones don't speak up, so these threads end up being 95% high praise by people who love to gush about their new toy. I've made my fair share of bad purchases based on the FOTM syndrome around these parts, so it's refreshing to see some "anti-hype" (to steal from purrin's signature) to balance the opinions. 
 
Not like I'm partial to any one side particularly either. I respect Purrin's CSD work and think they are a great contribution to the community. At the same time, I've read almost all of Katun's reviews (many of them multiple times) and highly respect his opinion -- and he likes these things. In the end, I just gotta let my own ears decide, which should go without saying.
 
I just find it interesting that people feel so personally insulted when someone else doesn't like a particular headphone that they like. I cringed while watching many people in this thread POUNCE all over Rhythmdevils a few days ago for taking the time to write his honest impression on these. Seriously, we're just having fun and talking headphones here. Not sure why everyone gets so worked up. 

 
I'm 100% for negative reviews too as long as they've given it a fair chance. Twenty seconds isn't. Two sentence reviews should just be ignored and not even posted. It's also best to point out in detail why they didn't like the headphone, what's wrong with it and describing it's signature is a must. If you read 100 HD-650 reviews though, almost everyone describes it differently. Heck, my HD-580 is described as having severely bloated bass and almost no mids. That couldn't be any more different than what i'm hearing...I actually think it's technically better than the HD-600(!)
 
These days when I get a new headphone it's based on it having my favorite signature, frequency graphs and then checking as many reviews as possible (as long as it's not amazon). Anything bass heavy I generally avoid. Good mids over everything else.
 
Believe it or not there's actually people on here that hear headphones the same as I do. This is extremely rare, but when you read their impressions of headphones you own, they're almost spot on. I think I only had this happen twice. Some of my friends on here I can rely on to have complete opposite impressions of headphones

 

[Grado77]

Quote:

tdockweiler, believe it or not, I have seen Purrin listen to a brand new headphone and within 10 seconds, draw a frequency response plot, give critical and accurate judgment of it's sonic qualities/flaws and THEN proceed to measure it. After processing his measurements on his uber-computer and measurement rig...guess what....the frequency response plot looked EXACTLY like the one he drew out.
 
There aren't many ears I would trust but I do trust Purrin's.
 

 
Holy cow..........need a video of that mastery...........even Kreskin was on TV for a while

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

tdockweiler, believe it or not, I have seen Purrin listen to a brand new headphone and within 10 seconds, draw a frequency response plot, give critical and accurate judgment of it's sonic qualities/flaws and THEN proceed to measure it. After processing his measurements on his uber-computer and measurement rig...guess what....the frequency response plot looked EXACTLY like the one he drew out.
 
There aren't many ears I would trust but I do trust Purrin's.
 

 
That's perfectly fine and dandy, but it looks like this is just a case of him just not liking the K550's signature. Hopefully he someday gets to try another pair to see if his impressions change. Probably not.
 
I mean a headphone having mild treble peaks, sounding too lean and bass light are not real issues or flaws. People claiming this is like some sort of defect makes no sense. I can understand it somewhat since the K550 is labeled as a "reference" headphone. These days that doesn't mean much. Just look at all those V-shaped headphones labeled as studio monitors.
 
I'm so glad not every headphone is perfectly flat. Of course I do prefer a headphone with a fairly neutral sound signature with somewhat forward mids (Sextett etc). I don't run a studio though.
 
It would be nice to know if any REAL issues (like this resonance RD supposedly heard) do exist in the K550. I don't think anyone has proven it yet. I think RD is the only one that has reported hearing it. Maybe there's others.
 
The HD-650 has bloated mid-bass, so I guess that's a flaw too right? It's not on a graph so I guess it's OK. Yet a K550 has serious issues because of treble peaks..

 

[LFF]

Quote:

 
That's perfectly fine and dandy, but it looks like this is just a case of him just not liking the K550's signature. Hopefully he someday gets to try another pair to see if his impressions change. Probably not.

 
I don't think Purrin hates the K550...he just hates bad headphones.

 

[Katun]

Personally, I bet "specific individuals" are sick and tired of reading all this K550 hype, especially from notable reviewers, and somehow want to prove, "Oh, I must have more critically accurate ears than you, because the K550 sucks, and you said it's awesome" by means of absolutely pointless, relentless bashing. Or perhaps it's because they hate fads and have to combat the surplus population by concentrating their efforts into over-exaggerating negatives to prove their ground? Regardless, talk about low class. You know, it's one thing to say a headphone has problems, even serious ones; but a lot that's been said here makes beating a dead horse look like an olympic sport. I mean, honestly, how the heck are you supposed to interpret elephants taking a crap on your head? Is there really an audible experience that can possible match that? (Not necessarily in a literal sense, obviously. Although, even THAT line has been blurred...) Personally, I wouldn't even resort to classifying stock earbuds as that. And of course, by saying that I'm sure some would think, "That's because he's just got easier parameters in judging headphones while I'm far more strict because I've got the better ear and/or am harder to please." Okay, whatever. But I honestly hope that one would realize that my (or anyone else's for that matter) interpretation of "awful" or "acceptable" or "awesome" is probably going to be different than another's. And in this case, it better be...
 
And no, I'm not defending the K550. Just thought I'd point out some of the lunacy that seems excessively prevalent.
 
EDIT: Due to the severe lack of comprehension. Please re-read if needed.

 

[purrin]

Quote:

It would be nice to know if any REAL issues (like this resonance RD supposedly heard) do exist in the K550. I don't think anyone has proven it yet. I think RD is the only one that has reported hearing it. Maybe there's others.
 
 
he HD-650 has bloated mid-bass, so I guess that's a flaw too right? It's not on a graph so I guess it's OK. Yet a K550 has serious issues because of treble peaks..

 

 
I haven't spoken with RD in detail about this headphone, but we are probably referring to the same thing. There is some driver resonance or ringing in the upper midrange or lower treble at where I think is around 6.5kHz. This is the effect that made my jump out of my chair. It's very serious IMO. I (and RD) tend to live day to day with very well behaved cans with no appreciable resonances and ringing, so it's likely we are more sensitive to this effect. I believe that RD was trying to work on stuffing the earcups in hopes that any damping material will dampen this ringing effect.
 
I don't think anyone has taken measurements of these headphones so far, but the proof should in the CSD plots (which are really good at showing stored energy in the drivers) once get my hands on these headphones.
 
As far the the HD650s slowish muddy undefined bass, it's because they have high second and third order non-linear distortion in the bass. This effect too can be measured and plotted. It's a simply matter of presenting and visualizing the data properly. It's actually very possible to correlate what we hear with meaningful sets (as opposed to a bunch of non-meaningful) of measurements.
 
In the end, the measurements don't really matter. Measurements are only a tool to communicate certain aspects of a headphone's sound to people who understand them and have seen many of them in relation to what they have heard. There is no guarantee that bad measurements will mean that a headphone will sound bad to most people. However, there is a stronger correlation with good measurements to good sound.

 

[ultrabike]

Hi guys. I can't say I have trained or great ears. But I can definitively tell the difference between a Stax 007 and an 009, an HD650 and an HE-500, a PS-500 and an SR-60, a Lambda 404 and a ESP950. And with the right recording, I can tell the difference in seconds. Purrin has heard more rigs and been around the hobby much longer than I, and I don't find it hard to believe that he can tell the differences even faster than me. I can also understand consumer frustration when manufacturers fail to address issues that have been voiced here and elsewhere in the form of measurements and subjective evaluations.
 
I can see some prefer more detailed and elaborate (maybe less humorous) reviews. That is not everyone's style though. As a consumer I can read from Purrin's impressions that this headphone is not neutral, and has resonance issues that may not be easily fixed with damping. I can read between the lines that the headphone is overpriced compared to its peers in his opinion, and in his mind it does not deserve further in depth evaluation (EDIT: maybe he will now with all this controversy). Have you seen Tyll's youtube review of the Beats? From that review I gather he didn't like them, and he didn't go into detailed elaboration there... Well Purrin doesn't like the K550.