[discombobulation]

Quote:

Ok, just time for a quick A/B with the W4 (Björk - Crystalline, Elfterklang - Modern Drift, Hilary Hahn - Bach: Concerto for 2 Violins, Strings & Contino in D minor, Radiohead - Morning Mr Magpie) and the W4 aren't bad at all, but (who'd have guessed it?) the K3003 best them in many aspects: better bass texture and slightly more impact, better mids clarity and smoothness, better treble refinement and sparkle, but most of all better dynamics, depth, layering and transparity. The W4 sound significantly more like 2D, the K3003 almost holographic in comparison. There's virtually no aspect I can think of, in which the W4 have an upper hand, but don't get me wrong, I actually like these phones a lot. It's just that the AKGs are simply even better, and considering the price difference that shouldn't come as a surprise.
 
As for forgivingness, perhaps you could name me a few test tracks, I haven't had any glaring issues with my older recordings on either phone so far, but I think it would be best if you told me what to look for. Well and durability, I believe no one can answer this atm, since they've only just hit the market. Of course I would have preferred detachable cables and all, but at least they come with a 2 years warranty.
 
Oh, and btw as a student you shouldn't even be allowed in here, jm2c.

Anyway, falling back to your PortaPros (if the AKGs break) might actually be a good thing and finally show you the way to ultimate audio nirvana, but only if you have a drill nearby. 

Thank you so much for the added impressions. And simultaneously, damn you!! These are sounding more and more like the IEMs. I completely agree, as a student, it should be illegal for me to be on head-fi. I started off with Sony buds, got frustrated with their warbling, upgraded to CK7s, CK9s, and then a big jump to W3s, and now W4s. I'm studying medicine, so I can confirm that upgradeitis is a very real and very serious affliction

 
And I have done the Kramer mod (with a screwdriver and a lot of sweat because I don't have a drill haha), as well as putting on the inverted yellow foams (Grado foams IIRC). They are enjoyable, but certainly nothing compared with the W4. I used them when my W3 broke, mainly missed the isolation, and obviously the step down in sound quality on every front hahaha - don't get me wrong, still a very enjoyable phone at home. I do pop them on once in a while when I don't want to block out the world and am not listening critically.
 
Regarding test tracks, this one is one of the busiest tracks due to the mixing being a bit squishy. The highs can tend to be sibilant (though this isn't that bad on youtube), and the bass needs to be drawn out of the mix by the IEMs. The drums are fast and furious, but still need to be textured properly with the right note weight.
 

 
This track sounds terrible on most earphones. Highly susceptible to sibilance, bass only has impact if there is strong subbass presence, the mids are scooped heavily requiring some magical sort of earphone combination to make it sound even slightly warm (the W4 succeed in making this listenable IMO)
 

 
This track is a specific sub-bass test, again YouTube isn't ideal, but you get the ideal. Lots of texturing in the lower frequencies.
 

 
Autechre track, this requires frequencies around (and most likely even below 20Hz) to be recreated to properly create the mood. In fact the first time I even heard the sub-bass layers was with the W4 (due to the instrument separation, rather than subbass impact IMO)
 

 
And finally, a pure test of speed and spatial presentation by the true auteur, Ryoji Ikeda:
 

 
Apologies for wacky music taste in advance
 

 

[james444]

Will listen to these tracks, but it might take a while until I'm able to continue my A/B, so please bear with me...

Just noticed I forgot to cover isolation, well even with olives the W4 are not among the best isolating closed phones in my book, and the K3003 are maybe only about 10-20% worse. So here at last we have an aspect in which the W4 are (slightly) superior.

 

[discombobulation]

Quote:

Will listen to these tracks, but it might take a while until I'm able to continue my A/B, so please bear with me...
Just noticed I forgot to cover isolation, well even with olives the W4 are not among the best isolating closed phones in my book, and the K3003 are maybe only about 10-20% worse. So here at last we have an aspect in which the W4 are (slightly) superior.

Thanks a ton!
 
FWIW the W4 are the best isolating with earsonics triple flanges, and I find them great for longhaul flights. I haven't heard IEMs that isolate better, though obviously I heard most auditioned with the standard medium silicone equivalents.
 
I have three days before I go back to uni, and I believe one of the high-end audio shops here in Hong Kong has the K3003. I will try and make a mad dash to compare it with the W4 myself. If they truly are better for me, I will start saving up and selling things (including my small CD collection) so I should be able to afford them by summertime.
 
PS. being that they contain a dynamic driver, wouldn't there be the issue of burn-in? Do you notice any sound sig changes?

 

[dogears]

It's really very interesting to see the single driver fi-ba-ss taking on two multiple driver iems and the other being custom.
Would really love to audition the fi-ba-ss and k3003. But where

 

[ericp10]

Quote:

Will listen to these tracks, but it might take a while until I'm able to continue my A/B, so please bear with me...
Just noticed I forgot to cover isolation, well even with olives the W4 are not among the best isolating closed phones in my book, and the K3003 are maybe only about 10-20% worse. So here at last we have an aspect in which the W4 are (slightly) superior.

Hello james444, a bit off of topic, but I was wondering if you have heard the Hifiman RE262? If not, is there anyone around where you can get your hands on them for awhile? I am really curious what you think of them and a comparison with this and some other top tier IEMs... Happy listening sir!

 

[eke2k6]

I'm trying to fathom a world in which I would be able to afford these within the next 3 years... 
 
 
..nope

 

[james444]

Quote:

Thank you so much for the added impressions. And simultaneously, damn you!! These are sounding more and more like the IEMs. I completely agree, as a student, it should be illegal for me to be on head-fi. I started off with Sony buds, got frustrated with their warbling, upgraded to CK7s, CK9s, and then a big jump to W3s, and now W4s. I'm studying medicine, so I can confirm that upgradeitis is a very real and very serious affliction

 
And I have done the Kramer mod (with a screwdriver and a lot of sweat because I don't have a drill haha), as well as putting on the inverted yellow foams (Grado foams IIRC). They are enjoyable, but certainly nothing compared with the W4. I used them when my W3 broke, mainly missed the isolation, and obviously the step down in sound quality on every front hahaha - don't get me wrong, still a very enjoyable phone at home. I do pop them on once in a while when I don't want to block out the world and am not listening critically.
 
Regarding test tracks, this one is one of the busiest tracks due to the mixing being a bit squishy. The highs can tend to be sibilant (though this isn't that bad on youtube), and the bass needs to be drawn out of the mix by the IEMs. The drums are fast and furious, but still need to be textured properly with the right note weight.

This track sounds terrible on most earphones. Highly susceptible to sibilance, bass only has impact if there is strong subbass presence, the mids are scooped heavily requiring some magical sort of earphone combination to make it sound even slightly warm (the W4 succeed in making this listenable IMO)
 
This track is a specific sub-bass test, again YouTube isn't ideal, but you get the ideal. Lots of texturing in the lower frequencies.
 
Autechre track, this requires frequencies around (and most likely even below 20Hz) to be recreated to properly create the mood. In fact the first time I even heard the sub-bass layers was with the W4 (due to the instrument separation, rather than subbass impact IMO)
 
And finally, a pure test of speed and spatial presentation by the true auteur, Ryoji Ikeda:
 
Apologies for wacky music taste in advance

Haha, I thought your disclaimer was just a phrase, but this is so unlike everything I usually listen to, that I'm struggling for words to describe what I've been through during this last hour. You know what, I hardly feel qualified to judge IEMs by these tracks, because I don't even know how they're supposed to sound. Anyway, the most striking difference I heard was in subbass presence and texture, the K3003 deliver way more (too much?) of it, but without any loss of clarity in the mid and upper ranges. Next thing is dynamics and depth, the K3003 have noticably more of both, whereas the W4 sound shallower in comparison. That's pretty much all of what I feel confident to comment on, because in other aspects they're much closer (these tracks really show off the W4's meticulous separation!) and you'd really need to know how this stuff oughta sound to judge which phone renders it better.
 
Bottom line, as far as I can judge none of the tracks sounded bad on either the W4 or K3003, but given your (wacky

) music taste, please try to audition the AKGs and judge for yourself before jumping to any conclusions!

Quote:

PS. being that they contain a dynamic driver, wouldn't there be the issue of burn-in? Do you notice any sound sig changes?

My K3003 have about 25 hours on them now and I've never experienced significant change in IEMs after the first few hours, even with dynamic drivers.
 
Quote:

Hello james444, a bit off of topic, but I was wondering if you have heard the Hifiman RE262? If not, is there anyone around where you can get your hands on them for awhile? I am really curious what you think of them and a comparison with this and some other top tier IEMs... Happy listening sir!

Hello Eric, I'm afraid I haven't heard the RE262 (will check whether dfkt has them). Tbo I've somewhat lost interest in Hifiman IEMs after the RE0 and RE252. Out of the ones I've heard, I liked the RE1 best.
 
Quote:

I'm trying to fathom a world in which I would be able to afford these within the next 3 years... 
 
..nope

Don't know if it makes you feel better, but I didn't dare to take the K3003 outside today because of heavy rain, so I grabbed the next best IEM that was lying there and stuffed it into my pocket. Turned out it was the $10 Philips SHE3580 and for a second I thought about going back and fetching a better phone. Well I didn't and you know what, I honestly enjoyed listening to my music on this $10 phone during my morning commute. Sometimes I think this is more a disease than a hobby. Think of it as being immune to a severe infection.

 

[eke2k6]

Haha James. I have a system of checks and balances for my impulses. When I want to buy something, I think "How bad do I want it?" Then if I want it bad enough, "Is it worth the price?" If it is, then I ask myself "Do I NEED it?" That last question pretty much stops me from going broke on a daily basis.

 

[qawsedrf]

Haha James. I have a system of checks and balances for my impulses. When I want to buy something, I think "How bad do I want it?" Then if I want it bad enough, "Is it worth the price?" If it is, then I ask myself "Do I NEED it?" That last question pretty much stops me from going broke on a daily basis.

If blnDOIWANTIT = TRUE Then
   If blnWORTHTHEPRICE = TRUE Then
      If blnDOINEEDIT = TRUE Then
         blnWalletSafe = FALSE
      Else
         blnWalletSafe = TRUE
      EndIf
   Else
      blnWalletSafe = TRUE
   EndIf
Else
   blnWalletSafe = TRUE
EndIf


EDIT: damn html formatting.

 

[discombobulation]

Quote:

Haha, I thought your disclaimer was just a phrase, but this is so unlike everything I usually listen to, that I'm struggling for words to describe what I've been through during this last hour. You know what, I hardly feel qualified to judge IEMs by these tracks, because I don't even know how they're supposed to sound. Anyway, the most striking difference I heard was in subbass presence and texture, the K3003 deliver way more (too much?) of it, but without any loss of clarity in the mid and upper ranges. Next thing is dynamics and depth, the K3003 have noticably more of both, whereas the W4 sound shallower in comparison. That's pretty much all of what I feel confident to comment on, because in other aspects they're much closer (these tracks really show off the W4's meticulous separation!) and you'd really need to know how this stuff oughta sound to judge which phone renders it better.
 
Bottom line, as far as I can judge none of the tracks sounded bad on either the W4 or K3003, but given your (wacky

) music taste, please try to audition the AKGs and judge for yourself before jumping to any conclusions!

My K3003 have about 25 hours on them now and I've never experienced significant change in IEMs after the first few hours, even with dynamic drivers.
 

Hahaha this is hilarious. Thank you so much for going out of your comfort/knowledge zone and giving them a listen. My music taste has been expanding more and more, reaching the fringes of what is actually out there. I still need to dive deep into classical and jazz, however. I do believe that getting metal and electronic music presented well in one earphone is the ultimate test, as all frequencies get a thorough workout / soundstaging / instrument separation / speed / clarity are all required to the highest level.
 
Anyway, K3003 do sound like exactly what I'm looking for. The subbass impact and presence is the major thing lacking in the W4, at least for me. If they added subbass impact alone without invading and muddying up the other areas of the sound signature, I suspect I would be extremely satisfied. But if you mention added dynamics and depth - they are sure to be superior. Regardless, I doubt I will lay down that much cash without hearing them first. I scoured all of Hong Kong to try and find someone who had them - none had them in stock, only one said they were arriving today at 6PM, but I fly back to the UK at 11PM. Hard luck haha.
 
At this price point, you could even go for headphones (without a (good) amp)...but headphones will only be used at home, making them pretty bad value for me.
I am definitely going to start saving up, however. By the time I have enough cash, there may be new toptier players on the market. Whatever, this disease has to be fed, sooner or later!

 

[Uchiya]

How do we in the States get one of these?

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

I do believe that getting metal and electronic music presented well in one earphone is the ultimate test.

 
I couldn't disagree more.

One of the problems with some of the tracks you posted is that there are no dynamics in the music. This is particularly true of the first two tracks where the quality of the recordings (and masterings) does not help - this is quite important and an aspect that is often overlooked when discussing gear. On the first link, the drummer almost completely fills the entire 'musical' canvas. He shows no restraint whatsoever. Yes, he can play fast, BUT there's no breathing, absolutely no dynamics, everything is loud and TOO busy. Someone once said: "Any fool can play fast" - I would say: any fool can play fast AND loud. While most of the people featured in the first two tracks can certainly play their instruments, that alone does not make them musicians. And the two singers… well, what can I say? I personally find a band like Tool much more interesting musically, and with excellent musicianship.

I get the impression you have a misconception of what sibilance means. People who enjoy the type of music you enjoy will likely prefer different phones because they, like you, will be looking for a particular type of sound they enjoy. Now, add to that experimenting with different eartips, ear canal differences, different sources, and so on…well, you get the idea.

Although rap & hip hop are definitely not my favourite types of music (not by a long shot), Kanye West's My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is one of the best albums (of any genre) I've heard in the last 5 years. It often happens that people who like hip hop & rap, for instance, say they are looking for bass-heavy phones. Low frequencies in this type of music have already been boosted, and wanting a bass-heavy phone will make bass-driven music even more so. If anything, in this case, I believe a phone should be rather neutral (though not necessarily boring) to keep things as the artist and/or recording engineer intended.

I think the K3003 is a better phone than the W4. HOWEVER, I don't think you need to spend £1000/$1,500 to get a very good sounding phone. You can spend far less, even, than what you paid for the W4s and get very, very good sound that might actually work for you better, perhaps, than the W4.

 

[fatpooh]

I have just auditioned the K3003 for approximately 30 minutes today and I have to agree with most of what you guys are saying regarding its transparency, clarity and sense of instrumental separation. However on certain tracks I find the K3003 slightly sibilant and harsh on my ears especially during certain tracks (Ie. female vocals). Im not sure if some of you have experienced this. O btw, I was using the default filter and switched between the different filters too. The default filter seems to be the most balanced to my ears. The "high" filter exacerbates the degree of "harshness". 
 
I have also compared the K3003 to W4 and I would say that it does outshine W4 on many aspects. The K3003 is more detailed and quite airy while W4 seems to be warmer and thus more "intimate" sounding. Well, personally I do prefer the K3003 but my friend is in love with westone's sound signature so I guess it really boils down to a matter of personal preference. But still, for $1,000+ the K3003 threads into the realm of customs and there are so much more alternatives at that price range!
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

How do we in the States get one of these?

http://www.jr.com/akg-acoustics/pe/AKG_K3003I/
 
Any owners notice any driver flex at all upon insertion?  I'm trying to get a sense of how open or vented they might be.

 

[dogears]

^Heya chief Anax, have posted your impressions on the K3003 already? TIA.