[rnros]

Have you ever read around in the Sound Science section of this forum? If you have then you know that all;
DACs
Amps
Cables
Inter-connects

Sound absolutely the same,and tubes,oh my god! The bane of audio equipment. All tubes do is add distortion to the sound,therefor are trash.i
Burn-in? Are you kidding?!? The only thing burning-in is your brain.

Yeah,I read over there when im bored out of mind just to see how delusional these sound scientists clearly are,

I know you recognize the value of both sides of the argument, but yes, the ultimate value and judgement lies in the actual human experience.

Think you would like this book. As the book flap says "For music lovers, musicians, and music critics."
Also, of course, "For architects and acoustical practitioners." But something for everyone who loves music.
Worth $87? You can get a kindle sample from Amazon to get a sense of the content.
But if interested, get the book, not the kindle version. Beautiful quality book.

Spoiler: Bookcover:

 

[Phantaminum]

Have you ever read around in the Sound Science section of this forum? If you have then you know that all;
DACs
Amps
Cables
Inter-connects

Sound absolutely the same,and tubes,oh my god! The bane of audio equipment. All tubes do is add distortion to the sound,therefor are trash.
Burn-in? Are you kidding?!? The only thing burning-in is your brain.

Yeah,I read over there when im bored out of mind just to see how delusional these sound scientists clearly are,

If that was the case we’d all be using Topping amps/dacs to run all of our audio gear. I like the general sweeping statement for burn in. Smh..

 

[Monsterzero]

But if interested, get the book, not the kindle version. Beautiful quality book.

Is the Kindle version significantly inferior? I can no longer read actual books as my eyes wont allow it. I can read a backlit Kindle though.

 

[rnros]

Is the Kindle version significantly inferior? I can no longer read actual books as my eyes wont allow it. I can read a backlit Kindle though.

Ah, OK. I was referring to the pleasure of having the beautifully printed book available to enjoy.
Haven't looked at the kindle version, my copy predates kindle, but I'm sure it is fine for the actual content. Sometimes the graphic content can get a little shuffled with kindle.
But good place to start is with the kindle sample, although don't know how far it goes into the book content.

Discussion is basic to civilization, some needs to be more specific and disciplined.
This is an introduction to the common ground in language and concept that professionals require.

 

[rnros]

Hi attmci,
When I started tube rolling some ten years ago I was very skeptical about so called burn in. However, over time I have been convinced that it is true, both about electronics in general and tubes in particular.
Different tubes require different burn in time - perhaps the longest takes with tubes that do not get hot in use such as the EL3N, EL11, EL32 etc with upwards of 400 hours for some.
Many tubes seem to stabilize after 30-50 hours in my experience.
To my surprise, solid state equipment may need time as well to sound their best. I just got a Jotenheim from the St company (don't worry, I haven't defected to the ss camp - somebody gave it to me), and it needs several days of staying on until it sounds it's best. Maybe it is something about stabilizing the operating temperature - I just don't know. All I know is that it sounds better after being on for a while; something that has been corroborated by others.
I aware that there are people who claim that the tubes sound the way they sound right away and that the sound does not change, but this has not been my personal experience.
Come to think about it, I am questioning people that roll new tubes in rapid succession and then instantly proclaim which one sounds the best. As far as I am concerned, it takes quite a long time to formulate an opinion, especially if the tubes sound similar to each other.
I have even read about people who claim that all tubes sound the same which just proves that we hear things differently. IMHO there is plenty of room for all opinions - the main thing is to enjoy the music......

Well said.

Just got around to trying a few of the metal jacket 6N7s, thanks to your previous recommendation.
Damn! Thank you.

 

[mordy]

Thanks

 

[L0rdGwyn]

I don't know how I haven't rolled the Chatham 6AS7G until now, it's like I completely forgot I had them. Really like them with the ECC32, and it makes for a nice photo.

My Auteur comes back to me tomorrow, I had no idea how much I'd miss it, so excited. I need my sub-bass back.

 

[Xcalibur255]

@Xcalibur255 interesting and helpful info. on Hexfreds. From your description sounds like I may go with Hexfreds too, especially the sound having better bass control and speed, and resolution... but doesn't that change depending on how good of rectifier tubes you're comparing it with?

For the next questions, excuse me for sounding like a noob but I'm coming from the simple 4-tube OTL Feliks Audio amp with drivers/powers of the same socket type.
- Does the Hexfred option even apply to a new GEL3N amp, or is it only for OTL amps?
- Can someone PLEASE post a photo of the Hexfred? For the life of me I can't decipher which photo on Google Images resembles one. (I have no idea what it looks like)
- Is there such a thing as Hexfred rolling, such as op-amp rolling? If so, what is the terminology of the removable component?
- Which is more recommended for low-z cans, either the Hexfred or tube rectifiers, and 1 or 2 tubes?

The adapters basically look like socket savers with a solid top. Nothing fancy.

Maybe we're getting too technical here and overwhelming you, but I think you're worrying a little too much about the impact of the choice. To clarify, when we refer to HEXFRED we're referring to solid state diodes. HEXFRED is a specific brand and type of diode. For your last question for example, the rectifier choice won't have any impact at all on the output impedance of the amp or change it's ability to drive a certain type of headphone in any way. The rectifier's job is to convert AC into DC for the other tubes in the amp. There are several electrical voltages inside an amp that have different purposes, but this particular one is referred to as the B+ and it is the one that the actual musical signal is carried in. This is why the rectifier can impact the sound. Take for example you switch from a 5AR4 to a 5U4G. Because of the way these different tubes work this swap will have the effect of lowering the B+ voltage in your amp by, oh let's say around 20-30 volts. This changes the bias and operating points of your driver and output tubes. Different bias means a change in performance from those tubes. The point is that it's important to keep in mind what is going on electrically and mathematically when we make these changes. Both a tube rectifier and a Hexfred solid state rectifier are the same thing and are doing the same job: they are diodes rectifying current. But just like a 5U4G and a 5AR4 have different amount of losses when performing that job, so does a solid state diode.

Your question about Hexfred rolling is an interesting one. Technically what you're thinking of here is diode rolling. This is exactly what you are doing when you swap tube rectifiers, you are changing to a different set of diodes. The answer here, technically, is yes. There are other kinds of solid state diodes that can be used for this job. Like I mentioned above HEXFRED refers to a specific type and brand of diode. Schottkey diodes come to mind right away as an alternative. The reason we're focused on HEXFRED is because a lot of people feel they are the best choice out of what is currently available. It's hard to really explain why without getting really techical, but it mostly comes down to the HEXFRED having a fast recovery time while at the same time closely mimicking some other behaviors of tube diodes. The theory goes this is why the HEXFRED pulls off this weird ability to sound both detailed and dynamic, and yet mellow and relaxed sounding all at the same time.

You can pretty much any tube amp with solid state diodes instead of tube ones. This is actually fairly common in commercial tube amps these days where you won't see a rectifier tube. That job still has to be performed, so they are using solid state diodes to perform it. Maybe they have HEXFREDs in there, maybe something else. So you can definitely have an EL3N built using HEXFRED diodes in it's power supply if you wanted it that way.

I hope that makes sense. It's been a while since I've thought about it.

 

[Xcalibur255]

Many thanks for your detailed answer. One last question, if we add the transformer type to this equation, is there any advantage or disadvantage in combining the rectifier socket with a Lundahl transformer? What I read and found out, thanks to @L0rdGwyn was that the Lundahl transformer version with octal rectifier socket has also 2 x Hexfreds inside and the rectifier is basicly wired to the positive polarity.

I think (hope?) my previous rambling post should help answer this. Your choice of power transformer doesn't really directly connect to whether your not you want to use HEXFRED diodes instead of a tube rectifier. The reason we prefer the Lundahl transformer is because they give the amp a lower noise floor which helps with low level detail and resolution and will lower the chance of there being static or other noise if your headphones are very high sensitivity. Because of the way the Lundahls are Glenn has to do a few things differently for the power supply design of the amp. I honestly would not worry about the datails of that other than to know that they are simply necessary and aren't going to really change the character of the amp's sound.

 

[Xcalibur255]

You know I was going to stop putting the 3DG4 option in my amps. I usually give one with the amp but nobody uses them.
Guess I will leave it in now that everyone in using the 4 volt rectifiers with a 3DG4 adapter

I tried to talk people into using them, but nobody was having it. I have had the same 3DG4 rectifier in my OTL for years now. Long enough that the tube has that dark grungy look all 3DG4 tubes seem to get when they get some decent hours on them.

edit: In case this statement confuses anybody, I use the HEXFRED adapters in my 45 amp. I've never had a HEXFRED adapter for my OTL. My OTL is the old style anyway and Glenn doesn't make them like that anymore.

 

[Xcalibur255]

Glenn, I will be using the 3DG4. It has the lowest voltage drop. So keep a shiny looking one for me.

If Glenn doesn't have any I can help you. I have spares.

 

[UntilThen]

If Glenn doesn't have any I can help you. I have spares.

Thanks mate. You're extremely helpful.

The pair of Siemens EL11 arrived. I've not seen a more pristine looking tubes. Same construction as my Telefunken EL11s.

And something else arrived too... a day earlier.

The Pheasantwood Verite. It's a jaw dropping moment when I opened the Seahorse case housing it. Pure class in looks and construction. You won't get any sound impressions from me till much much later after I've given the transducers a good workout.

until then....

 

[Zachik]

And something else arrived too... a day earlier.

The Pheasantwood Verite. It's a jaw dropping moment when I opened the Seahorse case housing it. Pure class in looks and construction. You won't get any sound impressions from me till much much later after I've given the transducers a good workout.

Photos, or it didn't happen...

 

[2359glenn]

Bummer one of my GEC 6AS7s died yesterday. I only had them about 8 months What paid $430 for them.
Have Brimar 6080s in the amp now they sound pretty good. Not sure who really made them.
Almost bought that single GEC 6AS7 on E-BAY for $419 then came to my senses.
The 6080 sounds good enough and is totally quiet.
I had it with expensive tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[m17xr2b]

Did it die at power up or just while listening? Any bangs or destroyed headphones? I assume this wasn't just a loss of emissions.