[JerseyD]

BTW, to answer your other post above: the HP8 is a tube amp that really nails it with the Caldera. That is a great combination. Maybe it's because the HP8 is transformer-coupled, not OTC ... not sure why, but it's a killer planar amp.

Slip of the keyboard there @Pharmaboy , HP8 is transformer-coupled (OTC), not output transformerless (so, not OTL). Glad to hear the HP8 works well with the Caldera, just in case I succumb to the Caldera at some point! I'm very happy switching between the Atrium and Verite for different genres. Would Caldera replace one if those?

 

[Monsterzero]

based on my experience, that Caldera pairing depends largely on what you're listening to.

For electronica & modern productions, solid state provides a precision and slam that tubes cannot matc

For classical, jazz, acoustic, etc, you'll get a wider more airy sound from tubes, but with less precision. Again, the effect is way more pronounced than it is with dynamic drivers.

+1

@ChJL have you considered a tube based DAC? I used to own a Lampizator TRP, which is big dollars, but there are other companies making tube DACs for far more reasonable prices. It added a quite large tube flavor injection to the sound, which should not be taken for granted.
I've heard quite a few amps, DACs and preamps that are tube based, and the results were a bit underwhelming.

 

[chrisnyc75]

+1

@ChJL have you considered a tube based DAC? I used to own a Lampizator TRP, which is big dollars, but there are other companies making tube DACs for far more reasonable prices. It added a quite large tube flavor injection to the sound, which should not be taken for granted.
I've heard quite a few amps, DACs and preamps that are tube based, and the results were a bit underwhelming.

lol Yeah, as I was typing it I was thinking "this could really be said of tubes vs solid state in general". lol But I really do find the effect with Caldera substantially more pronounced than with Utopia, Verite, or Arya.

Yes, I considered tube DACs when I was researching, but really wanted to give myself a solid state vs tube option, but putting tubes in the DAC inserts them into whatever I listen to no matter the amp. I may explore that in the future, though.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Slip of the keyboard there @Pharmaboy , HP8 is transformer-coupled (OTC), not output transformerless (so, not OTL). Glad to hear the HP8 works well with the Caldera, just in case I succumb to the Caldera at some point! I'm very happy switching between the Atrium and Verite for different genres. Would Caldera replace one if those?

Right you are @JerseyD ... I must have been thinking of OTC stocks or drugs when I typed that. Just changed it to OTL.

I own a silkwood VO (my favorite dynamic HP ever) and at one time owned & reviewed an Atrium Open, another rather amazing dynamic. Would a Caldera replace either of them? Not really. The Caldera differs from each one in myriad subtle ways.* My advice would be to add a Caldera to those two, if you can manage it. The Caldera would contrast the VO and Atrium extremely well.

* Plus the Caldera is a planar & the others are dynamics. I've always heard distinct differences between planars and dynamics.

 

[Pharmaboy]

lol Yeah, as I was typing it I was thinking "this could really be said of tubes vs solid state in general". lol But I really do find the effect with Caldera substantially more pronounced than with Utopia, Verite, or Arya.

Yes, I considered tube DACs when I was researching, but really wanted to give myself a solid state vs tube option, but putting tubes in the DAC inserts them into whatever I listen to no matter the amp. I may explore that in the future, though.

MHDT Labs Orchid DAC with buffer tube ... just sayin'.

 

[G8torbyte]

BTW, to answer your other post above: the HP8 is a tube amp that really nails it with the Caldera. That is a great combination. Maybe it's because the HP8 is transformer-coupled, not OTL ... not sure why, but it's a killer planar amp.

I mostly use the Caldera with the Vio 222 or the Homage but just recently been pairing it to the Icon HP8 and really enjoying it. The multi-tap output transformer on the HP8 works well with a few other planars I've tried on it whereas an OTL tube amp can cause that floppy bass response on planars but not with dynamics.

FWIW, I now have a TOTL solid state and TOTL tube amp and I would suggest, based on my experience, that Caldera pairing depends largely on what you're listening to. A reasonably powerful tube amp will drive Caldera just fine, but what you get from it is markedly different than what you get from ss + Caldera. For electronica & modern productions, solid state provides a precision and slam that tubes cannot match - this effect is way more pronounced than it is with dynamic drivers IMO. For classical, jazz, acoustic, etc, you'll get a wider more airy sound from tubes, but with less precision. Again, the effect is way more pronounced than it is with dynamic drivers. YMMV.

Agree with this too. Modern electro music to me seems to synergize better on SS/planar combos and ZMF dynamics sound wonderful with older recordings and bring new life to them.

 

[Pharmaboy]

an OTL tube amp can cause that floppy bass response on planars but not with dynamics.

That's interesting. I only have experience with one OTL amp IMS, the Woo WA3. For me it's the reverse:

• Planars work well w/the WA3. The bass is not boomy, but doesn't hit as hard as it does on the HP8 or SS amps
• But low impedance dynamics have their bass greatly altered on the WA3, becoming quite boomy and uncontrolled

(mysteries)

 

[G8torbyte]

That's interesting. I only have experience with one OTL amp IMS, the Woo WA3. For me it's the reverse:

• Planars work well w/the WA3. The bass is not boomy, but doesn't hit as hard as it does on the HP8 or SS amps
• But low impedance dynamics have their bass greatly altered on the WA3, becoming quite boomy and uncontrolled

(mysteries)

My experience is limited to lower cost OTL's. It was the Xduoo TA-26, RAAL-Requisite PTD-1a and an older Little Dot that did not work with my Audeze and DCA planars.
The RAAL even has "planar & dynamic" printed on the amp but the planars were not responding well at all. ZMF dynamics sounded awesome on it as did other dynamic drivers. One of the 6N6P driver tube channels on the RAAL keeps red-plating now so need to see if I can find a shop nearby to help troubleshoot that. The TA-26 also did fine with dynamics but I sold it after acquiring the HP8.

 

[ChJL]

What's your budget?

HA-300MKII

I try to find a handful of possible options first without limiting myself thinking about money as primary exclusion criteria... probably no US import amp
thought about that unit, would be in range but 300B's are out of my focus. If big tubes more likely 2A3 amp.

For electronica & modern productions, solid state provides a precision and slam that tubes cannot match

Right, my use case. Also have SS because of that, but want to add character for more liquid, smooth, "umami" flavoured electronica! for Planars first and foremost.
If I set my mind to adding a dynamic HP then best go for OTL amp...
but I don't quite understand if the difference between OTL and OTC tube amp will be as crucial when used as pre into SS? again for planars with Caldera's driveability!

So what about "dedicated HP tube amp as pre" vs "dedicated active tube stage" like hattor? more a 2 channel choice?

Just make sure the tube on the front end, to which the headphone is connected, has low output impedance and reasonable power.

How low?
and couldn't I get too much power/(gain) when using f.e. Trafomatics Head2 SE which has fixed 26dB gain?

have you considered a tube based DAC?

Yes, also DSD but went for R2R having replaced X26pro.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________


When ordering a limited Caldera offered right now... does one really have to get one "included stock" and one "included OFC" cable even if I only wanted 1 upgrade cable? I mean why buy 3 if I only need one?

 

[BassicScience]

If I set my mind to adding a dynamic HP then best go for OTL amp...
but I don't quite understand if the difference between OTL and OTC tube amp will be as crucial when used as pre into SS? again for planars with Caldera's driveability!

If the tube amp has preamp outputs, then they'll usually (or perhaps, always) be tapped before the output transformers. In such case, the distinction between OTC and OTL goes away.

So what about "dedicated HP tube amp as pre" vs "dedicated active tube stage" like hattor? more a 2 channel choice?

If you already have a volume control somewhere in your chain, you can get by with a tube buffer. OTOH, using a dedicated tube headphone amp with preamp outputs allows for more flexible configuration of your chain for different headphones.

 

[goldwerger]

How low?
and couldn't I get too much power/(gain) when using f.e. Trafomatics Head2 SE which has fixed 26dB gain?

Output impednace impedance <10 ohm should be great (pretty much all SS and OTC amps have low single digital output impedance at most). The Trafomatic Head 2 seems to have impedance setting at 50 ohm among there. I'd start there and see how it sounds (the setting isn't what the actual output impedance of the amp is at that settting, which will be much lower; it's what the manufacturer believe is optimized for a 50 ohm load). Generally, it is safe and advisable to play with you routput impedance switch and just find the setting the sounds best to your ears..

high gain means the amplitude of the signal is increase, but you need the current to drive the headphone well. Caldera actually doesn't need much but scales very nicely. It's sufficient and more helpful to just look at the power output rating at the headphone load impedance (60 ohm). The Trafomatic Head to seems to provide 2W into 50 ohm and should have no problem driving the Caldera (though I have no idea whether synergy is good and how well that amp design is; never tried it myself, and can't have an opinion on something I didn't try..).

 

[Nimzerz]

+1

@ChJL have you considered a tube based DAC? I used to own a Lampizator TRP, which is big dollars, but there are other companies making tube DACs for far more reasonable prices. It added a quite large tube flavor injection to the sound, which should not be taken for granted.
I've heard quite a few amps, DACs and preamps that are tube based, and the results were a bit underwhelming.

As someone that has been using tube DACs for quite a while, I wholeheartedly agree with the suggestion to go down this path. I just acquired a Lampizator Golden Atlantic TRP with volume control so that I can feed this directly into my SIT-3 and the clarity, timbre, soundstage, and overall PRAT with this kind of setup is what I've always been looking for:

My last DAC, the Musical Paradise MP-D2 MK1, is now discontinued but is incredible at the price point of ~$1000 USD. It was a more colored sound profile and of course was not as detailed, but very musical (as the brand name would suggest). The soundstage on that was quite incredible as well.

 

[Roasty]

As someone that has been using tube DACs for quite a while, I wholeheartedly agree with the suggestion to go down this path. I just acquired a Lampizator Golden Atlantic TRP with volume control so that I can feed this directly into my SIT-3 and the clarity, timbre, soundstage, and overall PRAT with this kind of setup is what I've always been looking for:


My last DAC, the Musical Paradise MP-D2 MK1, is now discontinued but is incredible at the price point of ~$1000 USD. It was a more colored sound profile and of course was not as detailed, but very musical (as the brand name would suggest). The soundstage on that was quite incredible as well.

I've always dreamt of having a lampizator.. congrats man! how long does it take to warm up and sound best?

 

[Nimzerz]

I've always dreamt of having a lampizator.. congrats man! how long does it take to warm up and sound best?

Given that the DAC keeps the digital section warm even when the tubes are off (standby), I find it takes less time to reach a *good* operating point than my previous DAC. However, I do still find it to sound better after a few hours. It is somewhat hard to say, because I won't have my SIT-3 turned on unless the DAC is turned on... so there are too many factors.

 

[sp33ls]

Given that the DAC keeps the digital section warm even when the tubes are off (standby), I find it takes less time to reach a *good* operating point than my previous DAC. However, I do still find it to sound better after a few hours. It is somewhat hard to say, because I won't have my SIT-3 turned on unless the DAC is turned on... so there are too many factors.

I have an "upgraded" SIT-3, and that alongside my Yggdrasil already sounds like it's gotta lot of "sugar." Does the Lampizator add more sweetness?

I bet your Caldera sounds amazing through that stack.