[goldwerger]

Worse is the presumption that his taste adheres to some sort of universal benchmark (from the end of his review, linked above):

Objectively it is clear that Caldera deviates significantly from what research tells us is highly preferred frequency response. That is fine but company needs to conduct its own research to see if their target is more performant."

Well, next time I’m having a great steak dinner and perhaps a nice glass of wine, I’ll make sure to ask him if they “measure well or deviate significantly from what research tells him is the highly preferred” taste. I need to some confirmation before I can decide for myself what is good taste, it’s clearly objective.

 

[robo24]

"deviates significantly from what research tells us is highly preferred frequency response."
Would only be written by someone with little understanding of human subjects research and study limitations.
For years the top selling car was the Ford Taurus, showing it's highly preferred. Therefore every car should strive to be the Ford Taurus. Just silly.

 

[yolosauce]

That ASR review is a waste of time like all of their other headphone reviews. If the Caldera had the harmon curve I wouldn't buy it because I think harmon sounds terrible. The people that bought the Caldera like the Caldera's frequency response. That's the only research ZMF needs.

 

[Lyssky]

Well, I definitely have a dog in this race, because I love the sound of the Caldera and see no need to EQ it to (possibly) "improve" it. And I am entirely unsurprised that Amir's suggested EQ results in bonkers, degraded sound.

(What follows are my opinions on Amir & ASR. Feel free to ignore every word)

Spoiler

I'm at the point where I won't click on any link with "audiosciencereview" in it. This isn't rank prejudice on my part. It's an informed decision that I formed over the past 2-3 years based on:

1. Amir's "reviews" that are little more than gear measuring sprees. They contain little if any commentary on how the "reviewed" item actually sounds. In these "reviews," it is often unclear whether Amir actually listened to the item at all, beyond measuring it
2. Some of those "reviews" harshly trash particular components that actually sound quite good to me & others. This leads me to wonder whether measurements matter less than Amir supposes they do; or that his measurements are (at least on occasion) incomplete or inproperly performed. IMHO it's likely both
3. Amir himself (I think it's a him) has been thoroughly debunked in writing by any number of tech reviewers and observers I would trust ahead of him any day. The general rap on him is that he fudges at least some of his data to push pre-ordained conclusions or to favor this or that audio mfr/brand/bud/ASR devotee
4. Having said all that, perhaps the most annoying thing about ASR is its discussion threads. These are typically stacked with full-on Amir acolytes obsessively discussing measurements made by Amir, their techno/spiritual leader; their own measurements (of unknown veracity & competence); or how reviews of this or that component by normal reviewers outside the ASR belief system, must be fallacious because those reviewers either didn't measure the gear exactly as Amir would, or they did measure the gear, with endless bloviation ensuing about perceived granular flaws with those measurements and any conclusions based on them
   • In these discussions, extreme contempt is often expressed toward those who listen to audio subjectively, for musical enjoyment, and who don't adhere to the ASR belief system. There are spit-flying diatribes along these lines. Particular bile is directed at any audio commentators who fail to conduct blind listening tests (per high ASR orthodoxy) of gear in question
   • The Us-vs-Themism of ASR is reminiscent of certain rabidly opinionated religious, cultural, and political websites I wouldn't waste a second of my lifespan consuming

For reasons of my own, in the past couple years I've done quite a bit of online research on class D amplifiers for 2-channel audio. This is a rapidly developing field undergoing a true paradigm shift as class D sheds its reputation for poor sound and vaults forward, technically & sonically. As it turns out, Amir has several class D "favorites," mfrs and models that measure plu-perfectly and therefore sit on the (ever-changing) ASR Pantheon of the Audio Gods. Conversely, a great many other mfrs and models do not meet with Amir's measurement-based approval. These mfrs and models are thoroughly (and frequently) reviled on various ASR discussion boards. Of course, to learn anything at all about the sound of class D amps, I have to go anywhere but ASR.

I conclude that ASR is the self-proclaimed Church of Audio Orthodoxy, the epicenter of audio "objectivism" in which sound matters not at all, while measurements (and endless technie design ephemera) are all that matter.

It is extremely weird to judge a subjective experience so adamantly by just putting it into some tests. I thought we listened music for amplifying our emotional and psychological needs. Many of the commenters gave their final verdict only depending on some data without even touching the headphones. It’s like going to an art gallery blindfolded and passing on final judgement depending on someone else’s comments on how the painting is not geometrically perfect. Respect for those who actually tried and didn’t like but this…talk about zealotry.

 

[Ciggavelli]

ASR is funny. I don't take it seriously at all. I don't want all of my headphones or equipment to sound the same. I mean, the whole point of the hobby is to find the sound signature you personally find best. Trying to put a circle into every square is meaningless to me

 

[jlbrach]

ASR is an iconoclastic site, they exist to essentially mock every high end expensive product ..basically anything more expensive then the Topping line is a rip off and cant possibly be better or sound better...personally I think they should be forced to review all gear without measurements because they start out with crazy bias to begin with

 

[chrisnyc75]

ASR makes some little bit of sense where it regards DACs and amplifiers, but applying objective measurement judgments to headphones is pure nonsense. There is no objective consensus what a "good" headphone measurement is - even Harmon is highly debated and based on subjective consensus. Putting this out there just shows how misguided the entire premise of that site is.

 

[number1sixerfan]

My goodness, ASR is a topic in every thread now lol. Unfortunately..

The only thing I wanted to add is that FR measurements and the Harman Curve mainly reflect tonality and the latter really only the general average preference across such. If all you care about is tonality, then sure, these are 'objective' ways to determine what is likely to be best for you. If you care about other aspects of the sound (which anyone investing in this hobby reasonably would) such as detail retrieval, dynamics, bass impact, soundstaging, imaging, etc. then it's just really erroneous to place any substantial value on that alone. I just don't get how it gets the traction it does to be used that way it is in the audiophile space with experienced users.

Rather, they should be tools to help someone understand if the general tonality and at a high level, presentation style, may be something that fits their potential preferences. The Harman Curve specifically I just absolutely cringe when people reference as some sort of high value scientific data point outside of a light indicator of something that could indicate a decent tonal balance.

 

[iamoneagain]

DCA Expanse "supposed" to be one of the best headphone ever measured (AFAIK). It's crazy that Caldera, with some resonances from wood housing, able to have similar result and even (partially) outperform Expanse for THD+N test at 94dB -114dB (who listen at 114dB!). Good measurement can sound great as well!

*I read asr just for fun only*

So for me it’s interesting because Amir says maybe it’s because we get broken in by a sound and even a bad headphone can sound good once you get used to. But when I first got the Expanse, I thought they were broken. The soundstage was completely collapsed. I thought I made a big mistake. After about 10 minutes or so the soundstage appeared and I was able to lock it in. But occasionally that collapsed sound would happen again. And with its bass, once I heard how it was boosted in just a certain spot I had trouble unhearing it, but sometimes with the right songs it’s worked great. It was also overtime that the soundstage really started to bother me because it always felt it started too close. So even though I tried to break myself in to fully liking this headphone, I had to return it. I started to feel a little suffocated by its closed sound.

But the first time I heard the Caldera, it just sounded right. It was airier and more open sounding. The bass wasn’t bloated in any spots and had a lush and euphoric midrange. I was led to believe that the Expanse and even more so that the Stealth were supposed to be the most accurate headphones due to the 3d printed damping system. So I just assumed the Caldera wasn’t accurate but just a fun, greatly enjoyable headphone and who cares about graphs. But you find out that Harman curve is based on a limited sampling of people’s preference on headphones from like 15 years ago. So for Amir to take the Caldera and try to turn it into the Harman curve and call the stock version full of issues is just misleading. It’s just tuned to Zach’s and many others preferences is all. The ZMF tuning is just another preference that many people love. How can it be wrong if it’s just one preference vs another and nothing more.

People who read Amir’s review will come away with the conclusion that Zach is a nice guy and makes great looking headphones but doesn’t know what he’s doing when it comes to tuning. I’ve was even aware of this opinion when I was looking to move on from the Utopia. ZMF may look great but don’t sound the best and not worth the money. It’s kind of shame since a lot of people end up missing out on such wonderful headphones. Luckily he’s at every CanJam and people get to hear for themselves what all the excitement is about. And yes, there will still be people who don’t care for the sound.

 

[goldwerger]

If you care about other aspects of the sound (which anyone investing in this hobby reasonably would) such as detail retrieval, dynamics, bass impact, soundstaging, imaging, etc. then it's just really erroneous to place any substantial value on that alone. I just don't get how it gets the traction it does to be used that way it is in the audiophile space with experienced users.

Not to mention harmonics and resulting quality of timbre which, at least, for me, is the most important foundation of sound. And as far as I know, these infinitely complex harmonic relationships aren’t measurable by anything we currently available.

It’s like measuring the height and weight of beauty contestants as the determining factors, while many comes in many complex shade.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Not to mention harmonics and resulting quality of timbre which, at least, for me, is the most important foundation of sound. And as far as I know, these infinitely complex harmonic relationships aren’t measurable by anything we currently available.

It’s like measuring the height and weight of beauty contestants as the determining factors, while many comes in many complex shade.

Yup, very good point. And timbre is as important as tonality to me, along with other top factors. Again, measurement is still very useful.. just over-relied on and overstated as a primary reliable data point to heavily weigh decisions upon.

 

[Pharmaboy]

It’s like measuring the height and weight of beauty contestants as the determining factors, while many comes in many complex shade.

you just triggered a memory: at CanJam NYC in February this year, I went into the ZMF booth (naturally) and there was confronted by the greatest number of colorful stabilized headphones I've ever seen in one place. There was a 3 or 4 shelf case covered with stabilized headphones; several large tables covered with dozens of stabilized headphones: Calderas, Auteurs, VOs, VCs, AOs, ACs, etc. These headphones weren't garish, color-for-the-sake-of-color: they were perfectly finished ZMF wooden headphones, drop-dead beautiful. It was overwhelming.

My immediate thought was: "This is a beauty contest, but instead of women in bathing suits, it's wooden-earcup headphones in every stabilized shade possible." I still haven't quite recovered...

I was never that taken w/stabilized headphones. I liked the pictures well enough, but never actually thought I might get one. But after that day...I think of it often. Once you've seen a greenish/brownish/bluish Caldera or Atrium Open, you're never quite the same again.

 

[goldwerger]

Once you've seen a greenish/brownish/bluish Caldera or Atrium Open, you're never quite the same again.

https://media.tenor.com/ds7wnEqD_oIAAAAM/What-is.gif

 

[JackarlTwo]

Well, I definitely have a dog in this race, because I love the sound of the Caldera and see no need to EQ it to (possibly) "improve" it. And I am entirely unsurprised that Amir's suggested EQ results in bonkers, degraded sound.

(What follows are my opinions on Amir & ASR. Feel free to ignore every word)

Spoiler

I'm at the point where I won't click on any link with "audiosciencereview" in it. This isn't rank prejudice on my part. It's an informed decision that I formed over the past 2-3 years based on:

1. Amir's "reviews" that are little more than gear measuring sprees. They contain little if any commentary on how the "reviewed" item actually sounds. In these "reviews," it is often unclear whether Amir actually listened to the item at all, beyond measuring it
2. Some of those "reviews" harshly trash particular components that actually sound quite good to me & others. This leads me to wonder whether measurements matter less than Amir supposes they do; or that his measurements are (at least on occasion) incomplete or inproperly performed. IMHO it's likely both
3. Amir himself (I think it's a him) has been thoroughly debunked in writing by any number of tech reviewers and observers I would trust ahead of him any day. The general rap on him is that he fudges at least some of his data to push pre-ordained conclusions or to favor this or that audio mfr/brand/bud/ASR devotee
4. Having said all that, perhaps the most annoying thing about ASR is its discussion threads. These are typically stacked with full-on Amir acolytes obsessively discussing measurements made by Amir, their techno/spiritual leader; their own measurements (of unknown veracity & competence); or how reviews of this or that component by normal reviewers outside the ASR belief system, must be fallacious because those reviewers either didn't measure the gear exactly as Amir would, or they did measure the gear, with endless bloviation ensuing about perceived granular flaws with those measurements and any conclusions based on them
   • In these discussions, extreme contempt is often expressed toward those who listen to audio subjectively, for musical enjoyment, and who don't adhere to the ASR belief system. There are spit-flying diatribes along these lines. Particular bile is directed at any audio commentators who fail to conduct blind listening tests (per high ASR orthodoxy) of gear in question
   • The Us-vs-Themism of ASR is reminiscent of certain rabidly opinionated religious, cultural, and political websites I wouldn't waste a second of my lifespan consuming

For reasons of my own, in the past couple years I've done quite a bit of online research on class D amplifiers for 2-channel audio. This is a rapidly developing field undergoing a true paradigm shift as class D sheds its reputation for poor sound and vaults forward, technically & sonically. As it turns out, Amir has several class D "favorites," mfrs and models that measure plu-perfectly and therefore sit on the (ever-changing) ASR Pantheon of the Audio Gods. Conversely, a great many other mfrs and models do not meet with Amir's measurement-based approval. These mfrs and models are thoroughly (and frequently) reviled on various ASR discussion boards. Of course, to learn anything at all about the sound of class D amps, I have to go anywhere but ASR.

I conclude that ASR is the self-proclaimed Church of Audio Orthodoxy, the epicenter of audio "objectivism" in which sound matters not at all, while measurements (and endless technie design ephemera) are all that matter.

You pretty much nailed it. I have absolutely nothing against Amir. I can respect his measurements and views etc and that's fine. What really bugs me is the "objectivist vs subjectivist" mentality. Music isn't a sine wave. Audio isn't black and white all the time. And the bandwagon commentary that comes with that when a headphone doesn't "measure as good as the research says it should" is completely ridiculous.

Anyways, back to listening to music with subjectively awesome headphones

 

[Lyssky]

People in audio would spend 3500 on headphones just because they think the owner is a nice guy. I am not saying he is not, I just like Amir more.

That's pretty much current state of industry after reviews moved from paper magazines to "independent" youtubers. Makes me laugh like hell. "Buy xxxx because CEO is a nice guy". Ohh

And this.
So we are all mindless beasts just salivating over some zestful colors and going after anyone who pets our heads. What an insult. These people have a lot of courage of ignorance.