[Setmagic]

i found a good deal for zishan DSDs (dual ESS), should i just pick it instead of Z4?

or did anyone here ever compare both DSDs (dual ESS) vs Z4?

All depends of real price of DSDs in my opinion and how would You use it.

As stock:
Z4:
- better audio performance in balanced and 2 times of power
- better sound quality (direct coupling)
- way better with IEMs and 32ohm headphones
- BT and true USB DAC

DSD:
- better navigation
- better modifications potential
- solid build quality
- no interference because separate audio and digital boards

I will make comparison of modded DSDs and Z4 in similar way I need some time.

 

[Setmagic]

DSDs Dual AK4497 Burson V5i + AD8620
VS
Z4 Dual ES9038 TI opa1622 + AD8620
All modded is same way.

1) 3,5mm single ended with Focal Listen 32 ohm - portable over ear headphones.

My DSDs in have better soundstage. Amount of microdetails and clarity is noticeable higher compared to Z4.

Space in DSDs forming triangle in big 3D space. Vocal is closer on the front and single highest female voices sparkles in space surround me. Vivid sound stage is situated far L/R for all instruments. Bass line are presence with good control and can goes deep.

Z4 is polite with a round bubble like smaller space closer to listener. Mid bas is stronger but subbase can't goes as deep as DSDs. Overall darker sound signature Z4 with rolled off treble creating impression of smoother but it's just noticeable less detail and resolution.

Overall fidelity is on side of DSDs.
Z4 is really not recommended for single ended headphones becouse he is working only in a 1/2 of audio rail.

2) Beyerdynamic DT150 250Ohm balanced 4.4mm. There is no reason to listen this from 3,5mm on Z4.

Space have same oval shape but it's bigger than Z4 on 3.5 SE
Control and clarity looks like "2 times" better as well.

Difference with modded DSDs:
Resolution increase without sibilance as sometimes can apire in DSDs in bad or specific recordings.
Sparkles in vocals and hi-hats have more polite character.
Soundstage is closer to listener, especially vocals are places on the front, on DSDs vocal is more around you.
Instrument placement is not as vivid in left-right channel. Fast switching between players sometimes courses "wow" effect on DSDs becouse of space and microdetails. But Z4 is smoother not rolled off like from 3.5mm just softer with nice energy.
Control of subbase is better on Z4 but it's still not as much amount of this as V-shaped DSDs. Z4 have darker signature and it's easier in long listening sessions becouse of linear sound signature and warmth in mids. Z4 have nice amount of mid-base who is missing on DSDs. Just need give a try Burson V5i in Z4.
I'm really don't know how to set up "easy" convertion from VSON10 to DIP8 adapter.

Conclusion.
For 32ohm full size portable 3.5 headphones I would pick up modded DSDs over Z4.
For desktop headphones espacially with big sound stage from factor I go for Z4. For my power hungry designed in late 60's DT150 Z4 is more suitable.
IEMs with wide sound stage sounds better on Z4 as well due to bad for them high output impedance in DSDs.
I'm really need try it with V5i.

There is no clear winner.
Both devices with similar mods have some strong and weak spots.
DSDs can be modified even more in end amp section. In Z4 opa1622 can replaced for DIP8 opamp, but this is difficult and I'm not sure if it's good idea

Without mods I would pick Z4 over DSDs but with mods situation is not as clear.
Good to have both ones.

 

[ExTubeGamer]

DSDs Dual AK4497 Burson V5i + AD8620
VS
Z4 Dual ES9038 TI opa1622 + AD8620
All modded is same way.
Tested using Focal Listen 32ohm over ear headphones.

1) 3,5mm single ended:

My DSDs in have better soundstage. Amount of microdetails and clarity is noticeable higher compared to Z4.

Space in DSDs forming triangle in big 3D space. Vocal is closer on the front and single highest female voices sparkles in space surround me. Vivid sound stage is situated far L/R for all instruments. Bass line are presence with good control and can goes deep.

Z4 is polite with a round bubble like smaller space closer to listener. Mid bas is stronger but subbase can't goes as deep as DSDs. Overall darker sound signature Z4 with rolled off treble creating impression of smoother but it's just noticeable less detail and resolution.

Overall fidelity is on side of DSDs.
Z4 is really not recommended for single ended headphones becouse he is working only in a 1/2 of audio rail.

2) Beyerdynamic DT150 250Ohm

I might buy a DSDs with the ES9038 chip.

 

[Setmagic]

I might buy a DSDs with the ES9038 chip.

I'm still reviewing DSDs and Z4 with mods.
Stock Z4 is better than DSDs - I'm sure.

It's not as simple choice
But You will be happy with DSDs becouse have better navigation.

 

[ExTubeGamer]

I'm still reviewing DSDs and Z4 with mods.
Stock Z4 is better than DSDs - I'm sure.

It's not as simple choice
But You will be happy with DSDs becouse have better navigation.

The only mod I'm planning is opamp rolling. That's my reason for getting the DSDs.

 

[Setmagic]

The only mod I'm planning is opamp rolling. That's my reason for getting the DSDs.

Only one who can fit in DSDs is that type:


You can't fit Burson V5i without serious modification of Burson or SO8/VSON10 adapters with direct soldering to PCB instead DIP8 socket.

 

[Unolord]

How does the DSDs compare to the Z4 when it comes to heat? Sometimes I feel like the Z4 could cook an egg sunnyside up.

 

[Setmagic]

How does the DSDs compare to the Z4 when it comes to heat? Sometimes I feel like the Z4 could cook an egg sunnyside up.

DSDs have few versions and they are complete different by DAC and power design.
Zishans are hotter in general compared to well known brands.
From hot to coldest:

DSDs AK4499 in turbo mode and AD3 tube amp are is extremely hot. They shouldn't be use in any pocket! AK4499 in normal mode (only half of DAC is working) can be use in very lose (open) coat pocket in "20°C" outside.

DSDs Dual AK4497 is similar to normal mode in 4499. Not recomended to use in tight pocket close to body. Loose one in coat shouldn't be a problem.

Z4 Dual ES9038 is very warm but can be use in most of pockets even with balanced mode. Still don't recommend very tight to body on heat. It's depends more on material of pants and temperature outside. In SE is colder and I think is not a problem in most situations.

Zishan U1 Single Cirrus Logic can be little warm same as Fiio X3. Fiio BTR3K are cold.

 

[Leonne]

DSDs Dual AK4497 Burson V5i + AD8620
VS
Z4 Dual ES9038 TI opa1622 + AD8620
All modded is same way.

1) 3,5mm single ended with Focal Listen 32 ohm - portable over ear headphones.

My DSDs in have better soundstage. Amount of microdetails and clarity is noticeable higher compared to Z4.

Space in DSDs forming triangle in big 3D space. Vocal is closer on the front and single highest female voices sparkles in space surround me. Vivid sound stage is situated far L/R for all instruments. Bass line are presence with good control and can goes deep.

Z4 is polite with a round bubble like smaller space closer to listener. Mid bas is stronger but subbase can't goes as deep as DSDs. Overall darker sound signature Z4 with rolled off treble creating impression of smoother but it's just noticeable less detail and resolution.

Overall fidelity is on side of DSDs.
Z4 is really not recommended for single ended headphones becouse he is working only in a 1/2 of audio rail.

2) Beyerdynamic DT150 250Ohm balanced 4.4mm. There is no reason to listen this from 3,5mm on Z4.

Space have same oval shape but it's bigger than Z4 on 3.5 SE
Control and clarity looks like "2 times" better as well.

Difference with modded DSDs:
Resolution increase without sibilance as sometimes can apire in DSDs in bad or specific recordings.
Sparkles in vocals and hi-hats have more polite character.
Soundstage is closer to listener, especially vocals are places on the front, on DSDs vocal is more around you.
Instrument placement is not as vivid in left-right channel. Fast switching between players sometimes courses "wow" effect on DSDs becouse of space and microdetails. But Z4 is smoother not rolled off like from 3.5mm just softer with nice energy.
Control of subbase is better on Z4 but it's still not as much amount of this as V-shaped DSDs. Z4 have darker signature and it's easier in long listening sessions becouse of linear sound signature and warmth in mids. Z4 have nice amount of mid-base who is missing on DSDs. Just need give a try Burson V5i in Z4.
I'm really don't know how to set up "easy" convertion from VSON10 to DIP8 adapter.

Conclusion.
For 32ohm full size portable 3.5 headphones I would pick up modded DSDs over Z4.
For desktop headphones espacially with big sound stage from factor I go for Z4. For my power hungry designed in late 60's DT150 Z4 is more suitable.
IEMs with wide sound stage sounds better on Z4 as well due to bad for them high output impedance in DSDs.
I'm really need try it with V5i.

There is no clear winner.
Both devices with similar mods have some strong and weak spots.
DSDs can be modified even more in end amp section. In Z4 opa1622 can replaced for DIP8 opamp, but this is difficult and I'm not sure if it's good idea

Without mods I would pick Z4 over DSDs but with mods situation is not as clear.
Good to have both ones.

sorry i dont understand the 'only working in 1/2 audio rail', is Z4 only employ 1 DAC and 1 amp for SE?

 

[Setmagic]

sorry i dont understand the 'only working in 1/2 audio rail', is Z4 only employ 1 DAC and 1 amp for SE?

Yes, according to my information from Zishan. SE is working only partially and saves energy. I'm not sure of it's only one DAC/AMP or half DAC/AMP on both sides.

 

[londere]

Z4 do not power off like U1, just a power save, but it's not a big deal with ~1s sound restart start delay.
If Z4 and T1 sharing same MCU/CPU it is possible but better don't brick device by myself.
How about BT and USB DAC in Rockbox devices?

Hi there, I took some days off, From my point of view Zishan need to do this, as you mention @Setmagic the problem is the CPLD/FPGA delivery from the OS (ZishanRTOS/Rockbox). Maybe can be emulated (or sort of) the USB or the BT since both are I2S and the decode part are from the CPLD to DAC

 

[Setmagic]

Hi there, I took some days off, From my point of view Zishan need to do this, as you mention @Setmagic the problem is the CPLD/FPGA delivery from the OS (ZishanRTOS/Rockbox). Maybe can be emulated (or sort of) the USB or the BT since both are I2S and the decode part are from the CPLD to DAC

Only firmware without big problems so far is V0.1 + BT FIX.
We have 3 versions od V0.2 and all have something wrong like reversed L/R or mono sound in different connections.

You are right everything is emulated by software from I2S connection Player, USB DAC and BT have separate lines and so far we are waiting with @Mr.HiAudio for good V0.2 or higher version

Maybe it's possible to check if Rockbox is working on Z4 but I'm afraid of permanent brick device.
I don't have any developer tools from Zishan. I have contact with him but translating from Chinese is really inaccurate.

Rockbox firmware creator cant recognize Z4 under charge / DAC mode I don't have any experience with this software.

 

[londere]

Only firmware without big problems so far is V0.1 + BT FIX.
We have 3 versions od V0.2 and all have something wrong like reversed L/R or mono sound in different connections.

You are right everything is emulated by software from I2S connection Player, USB DAC and BT have separate lines and so far we are waiting with @Mr.HiAudio for good V0.2 or higher version

Maybe it's possible to check if Rockbox is working on Z4 but I'm afraid of permanent brick device.
I don't have any developer tools from Zishan. I have contact with him but translating from Chinese is really inaccurate.

Rockbox firmware creator cant recognize Z4 under charge / DAC mode I don't have any experience with this software.

I think they don't like to be I don't know how to say it (corrected) since they are doing stuff than others can't do free or by lowered cost, I was trying some things but work it's absorbing me....

 

[Setmagic]

I think they don't like to be I don't know how to say it (corrected) since they are doing stuff than others can't do free or by lowered cost, I was trying some things but work it's absorbing me....

That's true - no one likes
In general V0.1 + BT Fix is safe firmware for now. V0.2 is in still under develop.
They try to fix 3,5mm under balanced mode on new Firmware but it causes problems with polarity and channels.

 

[libertz]

hello.
I updated my z4's firmware to v0.2
but It's still had a on/off popnoise like a bomb(poop..pzZz...pzz..pup) .
pls,help.thanks