Xiaomi Hybrid IEM Thread (Piston successor)
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TwinACStacks

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Sorcery?
 
I've been accused of worse. Now where did I leave that pesky Hat and Wand......
 
TWIN
 
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ClieOS

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Here is some measurement of the burn-in test I have done - was planning to do a total of 96 hours, but gave up after 72 hours since the result is pretty obvious. It is ran on what I call a 'unhealthy listening volume', which is basically loud enough to degrade hearing if you listen to it for more than a few minutes.
 

 
This is just showing the left side, though the right side has pretty much the same result. Each curve is averaged out of 4 measurements. The small variation between each curve isn't the result of burn-in, but caused by the slightly different fitting between each measurement. If it is burn-in, we would have seen some consistency, which is not found on these measurement.
 
As far as my opinion goes - if you like the hybrid, whether it is before or after burn-in, don't let the above discourage you. If you don't like it however, don't let the above discourage you either

 
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DaveLT

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  Here is some measurement of the burn-in test I have done - was planning to do a total of 96 hours, but gave up after 72 hours since the result is pretty obvious. It is ran on what I call a 'unhealthy listening volume', which is basically loud enough to degrade hearing if you listen to it for more than a few minutes.
 

 
This is just showing the left side, though the right side has pretty much the same result. Each curve is averaged out of 4 measurements. The small variation between each curve isn't the result of burn-in, but caused by the slightly different fitting between each measurement. If it is burn-in, we would have seen some consistency, which is not found on these measurement.
 
As far as my opinion goes - if you like the hybrid, whether it is before or after burn-in, don't let the above discourage you. If you don't like it however, don't let the above discourage you either
Exactly what it corresponds to my findings with the Hybrid. There is NO manufacturing tolerance NO burn in difference and certainly very dark. Just look at it. It's not so much V as it is to hell with the treble.
 
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stephanNL

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  Here is some measurement of the burn-in test I have done - was planning to do a total of 96 hours, but gave up after 72 hours since the result is pretty obvious. It is ran on what I call a 'unhealthy listening volume', which is basically loud enough to degrade hearing if you listen to it for more than a few minutes.
 

 
This is just showing the left side, though the right side has pretty much the same result. Each curve is averaged out of 4 measurements. The small variation between each curve isn't the result of burn-in, but caused by the slightly different fitting between each measurement. If it is burn-in, we would have seen some consistency, which is not found on these measurement.
 
As far as my opinion goes - if you like the hybrid, whether it is before or after burn-in, don't let the above discourage you. If you don't like it however, don't let the above discourage you either
So basically you very politely proved TwinACStacks is full of ****?
 
 
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post-12197256
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ClieOS

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  So basically you very politely proved TwinACStacks is full of ****?
 
 
What a person believes in can change what a person is hearing, that much science has already proven. I am not trying to disprove that.
 
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TwinACStacks

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What a person believes in can change what a person is hearing, that much science has already proven. I am not trying to disprove that.
 
It all Good.
 
You can pretty much pick apart any test conducted with less than laboratory grade ASTM, ISO, or SAE certified equipment not conducted in a specialized acoustically inert / Anechoic environment, with Repeatablity. Apparently there are certain scientific, electrical and mechanical principles that can't be ignored, that apply to Every piece of mechanical and electrical equipment on the Planet,
 
with the exception of IEMs and Headphones?  Plus, add in variances in Human hearing and ear canal structure.
 
Not to mention That Tyll found Larger discrepancies in his test Graphs of this burn-in phenomenon, but EVEN MORE noticable changes with his ears when listening to the same. I maintain that human hearing / Brain function is complex enough that it can pick up minutia that electronic test equipment cannot.
 
I concede. According to your graphs You are right , I just have a good imagination.
 
But ALL-IN-ALL It very simply comes down to: Do You like it, or Don't you like it? It's still personal preference.
 
As I'm Treble sensitive, I LIKE THEM.
 
TWIN
 
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vetsin

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Well, I'll just brace myself for some disappointment then. Or just pray for good units? Feedback from early users are very inconsistent. It's possible that there's some quality control issue.
 
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Well, I'll just brace myself for some disappointment then. Or just pray for good units? Feedback from early users are very inconsistent. It's possible that there's some quality control issue.
More likely it's supply or manufacturing phenomenon. Asian manufacturers source from many places.
 
TWIN
 
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stephanNL

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Well, I'll just brace myself for some disappointment then. Or just pray for good units? Feedback from early users are very inconsistent. It's possible that there's some quality control issue.
I'd probably say that's down to differences in personal preferences, expectations and how quickly people pass judgement on an IEM.

I have to concede that even after a good couple of hours of listening they do stay quite dark. Something that is directly noticeable when you have 3 sets of in-ears on rotation. Having said that, if you take away the expectation of great detail or a fairly neutral'ish sound (for Pistons at least) like the Piston 3, these still can be an enjoyable listen. Especially with certain genres such as Electronic dance music, Hip Hop and other low end heavy music. I was listening to the Jack U album the other day and it was a banging listen on these Hybrids.
 
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vetsin

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:cool: More likely it's supply or manufacturing phenomenon. Asian manufacturers source from many places.

:cool: :cool: TWIN

I was hoping I could expect higher standards from Xiaomi. Anyway, I'll post my own feedback when I get them. I'll read up on how to do a proper review so I can give a better comparison of the burned-in vs out of the box unit.
 
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KERBY

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hey clieos, are these hybrids better sounding compared to 2.1/3 cause id like to gift them to my gf after testing maye
 
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FSTOP

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I've been watching this thread for some time and haven't said a word. Mostly because i just wanted to get an overall impression of the sound signature of this IEM to see if it would even suit me at all. I've decided that it probably would be a waste of money for me, as i generally like my IEMs to be articulate and neutral overall. That said, i love deep, punchy, satisfying bass and very airy highs. Just seems that MR is usually lacking or suffers if the two extremes are handled well. I wrote some glowing reviews of the Piston3's, and still think they are one of the best bargains out there for an overall good-sounding and fairly neutral IEM that is available for under $20.
So it seems the "hybrid" does not exactly follow in the same succession. And knowing that "dark" is just not what i am looking for, i will move on.
 
Not to try to stir the can of worms further, but i just don't understand the passion of those that don't "believe in" the possibility of 'burn-in' phenomena. I'd say that after building dozens of speaker systems from scratch, if my initial listen was my only criteria, i'd probably have thrown away thousands of dollars immediately. Raw drivers certainly do seem to sound much differently after a period of use. Having training as a recording engineer, i certainly do not throw away science either. And i also absolutely believe that your ears/brain can re-tune/calibrate itself to sound. But maybe the biggest problem is that not only do we all have different tastes and favorite sound signatures, we all have different ears and hearing anomalies, so we all hear differently, regardless of whether the IEM changes sound with use or not. 
My personal experience over decades of listening to many devices and recordings, is that SOME speakers (as well as dynamic headphones, IEMs) seem to drastically change over some initial use. For me, this is almost always within just a few hours though. I've had speakers whose bass was just boomy, bloated, with slow attack that changed drastically to tight, deep, punchy bass literally overnight. Having studio equipment, i have used 31-band EQs to flatten out the sound, as well as using mics to calibrate a room. Within hours, having to readjust drastically (for not just my own perceived change in the sound), but the fact that the speakers' excursion properties seemed to change, with distortion and speed of the cone movement being much different (such as dropping the EQ in the 20 to 150 Hz range with very sharp curves, and still having too much bass--to hours later, being able to re-adjust those curves to much higher ranges with very little distortion). 
Personally, if i "burn in" a device, i many times to do not listen to it from the initial listen to the later listen, so my ears/brain have not become accustomed to the signature, and this change seems quite noticeable to me. But then again, some devices do not seem to change at all, so i don't feel that i necessarily have a bias one way or the other.
Just to add, many manufacturers/designers of sound equipment have mentioned such phenomena, including John Grado, Val Kolton, and others, so i tend to think they might know more about their equipment and how it responds more than I. 
Basically there are so many factors that could change, even with testing/listening environments, and for that matter the equipment that is doing the testing, to be able to definitively prove or disprove such perceived variances. But my ears seem to hear them (sometimes), so i choose to "believe" its possible at least. 
 
All that said, enough of you have described this particular IEM as having a "dark" signature that i also believe and trust the entirety of ALL of your ears/perceptions, and for that i thank you.  :wink:
 
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I've been watching this thread for some time and haven't said a word. Mostly because i just wanted to get an overall impression of the sound signature of this IEM to see if it would even suit me at all. I've decided that it probably would be a waste of money for me, as i generally like my IEMs to be articulate and neutral overall. That said, i love deep, punchy, satisfying bass and very airy highs. Just seems that MR is usually lacking or suffers if the two extremes are handled well. I wrote some glowing reviews of the Piston3's, and still think they are one of the best bargains out there for an overall good-sounding and fairly neutral IEM that is available for under $20.
So it seems the "hybrid" does not exactly follow in the same succession. And knowing that "dark" is just not what i am looking for, i will move on.

Not to try to stir the can of worms further, but i just don't understand the passion of those that don't "believe in" the possibility of 'burn-in' phenomena. I'd say that after building dozens of speaker systems from scratch, if my initial listen was my only criteria, i'd probably have thrown away thousands of dollars immediately. Raw drivers certainly do seem to sound much differently after a period of use. Having training as a recording engineer, i certainly do not throw away science either. And i also absolutely believe that your ears/brain can re-tune/calibrate itself to sound. But maybe the biggest problem is that not only do we all have different tastes and favorite sound signatures, we all have different ears and hearing anomalies, so we all hear differently, regardless of whether the IEM changes sound with use or not. 
My personal experience over decades of listening to many devices and recordings, is that SOME speakers (as well as dynamic headphones, IEMs) seem to drastically change over some initial use. For me, this is almost always within just a few hours though. I've had speakers whose bass was just boomy, bloated, with slow attack that changed drastically to tight, deep, punchy bass literally overnight. Having studio equipment, i have used 31-band EQs to flatten out the sound, as well as using mics to calibrate a room. Within hours, having to readjust drastically (for not just my own perceived change in the sound), but the fact that the speakers' excursion properties seemed to change, with distortion and speed of the cone movement being much different (such as dropping the EQ in the 20 to 150 Hz range with very sharp curves, and still having too much bass--to hours later, being able to re-adjust those curves to much higher ranges with very little distortion). 
Personally, if i "burn in" a device, i many times to do not listen to it from the initial listen to the later listen, so my ears/brain have not become accustomed to the signature, and this change seems quite noticeable to me. But then again, some devices do not seem to change at all, so i don't feel that i necessarily have a bias one way or the other.
Just to add, many manufacturers/designers of sound equipment have mentioned such phenomena, including John Grado, Val Kolton, and others, so i tend to think they might know more about their equipment and how it responds more than I. 
Basically there are so many factors that could change, even with testing/listening environments, and for that matter the equipment that is doing the testing, to be able to definitively prove or disprove such perceived variances. But my ears seem to hear them (sometimes), so i choose to "believe" its possible at least. 

All that said, enough of you have described this particular IEM as having a "dark" signature that i also believe and trust the entirety of ALL of your ears/perceptions, and for that i thank you.  :wink:

FSTOP, burn in is always and will always be a hotly debated subject. I'm one of the biggest supporters of the concept and yet In some cases even I have experienced little or no change. Having come from an electrical and testing background I pretty much have to agree with you. The laws that govern cone and spider networks also apply to mini and micro drivers as does any device that is electro-mechanical.

:innocent::innocent: TWIN
 
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post-12201869
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FSTOP

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@TWIN, 
As you said, you don't ALWAYS experience a change with all devices either. Which is why i'd conclude you ARE hearing a difference SOMETIMES, and you don't just "believe" or imagine you are with everything. 
 
That's one reason in sound recording/mixing you always A-B stuff, and use multiple monitors to hear differences in how the recording will sound to different listeners, on a variety of sound systems.
 
But i didn't like the personal attack on you for mentioning "burn-in"--even though i would probably not personally like this particular IEM as much as you either! :wink:
 
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TwinACStacks

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@TWIN, 
As you said, you don't ALWAYS experience a change with all devices either. Which is why i'd conclude you ARE hearing a difference SOMETIMES, and you don't just "believe" or imagine you are with everything. 

That's one reason in sound recording/mixing you always A-B stuff, and use multiple monitors to hear differences in how the recording will sound to different listeners, on a variety of sound systems.

But i didn't like the personal attack on you for mentioning "burn-in"--even though i would probably not personally like this particular IEM as much as you either! :wink:

:smiley: Yes but what they missed was the fact that Initially I found them dark as well until There was a fair period of burn in, THEN Another poster who experienced the same drastic treble increase in his pair as well coroborated exactly what I heard. I'm of the distinct impression that there ARE manufacturing differences in these phones.

:smiley::innocent: TWIN
 
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