[Silver Wolf]

I have the XS and TA-20, are you hearing this while music is playing or without and just rotating volume knob on the TA-20?

edit: just threw mine on to try out... silent..... tapped on chassis...silent...finger nail tapped tubes...nothing. Mind you these XS do sound very nice on the TA-20 (BAL or SE but then I think power is same on both with this amp) for my tastes.

Wonder if it's a tube, I did get a little something similar from one of my old Brimar tubes but only when I touched it, when just sitting back listening it was all good.

 

[PetFju]

I have the XS and TA-20, are you hearing this while music is playing or without and just rotating volume knob on the TA-20?

When music is playing it is inaudible unless the volume is all the way down, and is only audible when i am actually manipulating the amp in one way or another.
And its no issue when just playing music as the amp is placed on my desk, and on a little "platform" isolated from the desk surface with some rubber dampeners.
Another thing is that it the left channel is more heavily affected then the right (haven't tried swapping the tubes around yet tp see if it "follows" the tube)

 

[fonkepala]

Yes. I ordered (and received) two sets of matched tubes when I ordered the amp:
2 X GE JAN5654W's
2 X 6J1P-EV's

Still no update on my amp though. Ordered Jan.25th. If I had known that it needed to be shipped from China, I would have made other arrangements. Likely woukd have ordered the MT-604 that was in stock at Amazon.ca

Nice! Here's hoping you get your MT602 soon. And do let us know how it goes with those tubes you've ordered.

Have a look if you wish:

First time I'm getting to know about these. I'm assuming they're to lessen the chances of the vacuum tube sockets being damaged when doing frequent tube-swapping?

 

[hmscott]

I have a question to those of you out there with a TA-20. I just got myself a pair of HifiMan Edition XS, and they replaced my Sundaras on the TA-20 as my "planar setup".
However, i noticed now for the first time that microphonics is REAL real. Even turning the volume wheel makes audible noise from the driver in the headphones. And tapping lightly on the chassis or tubes is just a serious no-go. Is this normal? I have never ever had any issues of this sort nearly this evident before.
Obviously this issue came into my life alongside the Edition XS's, but still. I didn't think that they would be that much more sensitive than any other headphone i've ever tried out on the TA-20.
Any experiences and or opinions on the matter out there?

Microphonics are conducted and exacerbated by stiff headphone cables, and Hifiman's Classic "Medical tubing" sheathed cables are one of them

If your tubes are microphonic you want to find/use soft jacketed cables that won't conduct any vibrations, stiff coverings that can conduct the vibrations will make more noise when moving them around.

I replaced my Hifiman cables with GUCraftsman Silver plated cables for the Ananda and HE6SE V2, and also for my HD660S, HD598cs headphones:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/3879013
https://hifigo.com/collections/gucraftsman

For my IEM's I use KB Ear 16 Core Silver and 4 core 99% Pure Silver cables.
https://hifigo.com/collections/kbear
https://hifigo.com/products/kb-ear-...th-metal-2pin-mmcx-qdc?variant=31605483667505
https://hifigo.com/products/kbear-4...-with-2pin-qdc-mmc-tfz?variant=32250235322417

That said, most of my tubes aren't microphonic. I've been told that E180CC Pinched Waste tubes are *all* microphonic, but these weren't - at least on my TA-20 with soft cables:

NOS NIB PHILIPS HOLLAND PINCHED WAIST D FOIL GETTER E180CC 7062 12AT7 E81CC
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185162828671

I might have been lucky with those though... I just tapped on the top of both of them in my TA-20 and I had to hit the top of the tube pretty hard to hear anything.

I'm listening with my Sennheiser HD660S stock cable, which is a nice thick rubber like covering for the 6.35mm to 3.5mm converter, and even plugging in the Zip Cord cable that the long length of the cable is made from - still soft and rubber like covering.

BTW, that pair of PHILIPS HOLLAND PINCHED WAIST D FOIL GETTER E180CC sound phenominal, I mean it was so timely getting them along with this latest selection of tubes for the TA-26, as it put the TA-20 back in the "competition", they provide the most space and air of any previous tubes.
With these the TA-20 is "keeping up" with the TA-26

Give me a day or two and I'll run through my tubes / cables - including the stock Hifiman cables - to see which are making noisy from physical movement / tapping.

Which make/model of tube is doing this? Is it both tubes? Do you have a soft adapter extension you could use to interrupt the vibrations?

I haven't felt the need to get any, but there are "tube rings" made for each tube type, heavy metal and rubber, I don't recall where I saw them last, but those are used to dampen oscillations from bad microphonic tubes.

You could also try putting a soft cable converter like mine is between the headphone cable and amp...

 

[hmscott]

First time I'm getting to know about these. I'm assuming they're to lessen the chances of the vacuum tube sockets being damaged when doing frequent tube-swapping?

The TA-20 has recessed tube sockets...which I didn't think about too much, until I tried to use a "socket/tube saver"... then I thought about it a lot.

The Socket Saver is Short, too short to get a grip around it when plugged in to the TA-20 recessed socket. I tried to hold it down so I can pull out only the Tube, instead what comes out varies. If I am pushing down from the right direction, with the right angle, my forefinger's precisely cut fingernail can lock down the "Socket Saver", briefly - sometimes enough to pull out only the tube.

Perhaps there is some solution I am not thinking of. And, I did try Stacking Two Socket Savers, but it just looked silly - too tall, and it leaned a bit too, but it did work.

Good luck

 

[PetFju]

Microphonics are conducted and exacerbated by stiff headphone cables, and Hifiman's Classic "Medical tubing" sheathed cables are one of them

If your tubes are microphonic you want to find/use soft jacketed cables that won't conduct any vibrations, stiff coverings that can conduct the vibrations will make more noise when moving them around.

I am using a soft aftermarket cable already, and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with it.

The tubes are the Philips miniwatt E180CC SQ. So the tubes should be good? They sure sound good anyways.
Like i said; i can hear it even when turning the volume dial, so i am not sure the tubes are the only issue? However it is only audible with the Hifiman Edition XS, no other headphones. Which makes me think the sensitivity of the headphones are to blame. With that said there would be no noise if the amp was actually quiet.
Anyways; it's no big deal, as i don't usually hold, bump or in other ways touch my amp when listening to music other than turning the volume dial.

Btw i guess i need another set of tubes now, even if i did have the same type of experience of "keeping the TA-20 in the running" using the E180CC tubes

 

[hmscott]

I am using a soft aftermarket cable already, and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with it.

The tubes are the Philips miniwatt E180CC SQ. So the tubes should be good? They sure sound good anyways.
Like i said; i can hear it even when turning the volume dial, so i am not sure the tubes are the only issue? However it is only audible with the Hifiman Edition XS, no other headphones. Which makes me think the sensitivity of the headphones are to blame. With that said there would be no noise if the amp was actually quiet.
Anyways; it's no big deal, as i don't usually hold, bump or in other ways touch my amp when listening to music other than turning the volume dial.

Btw i guess i need another set of tubes now, even if i did have the same type of experience of "keeping the TA-20 in the running" using the E180CC tubes

Yes, the tubes are the only issue. When I have Microphonic tubes in the TA-20, any physical touch on the TA-20, Volume Dial, and depending on how sensitive the tubes are to vibration, even bumping the table the amp is on will caue the tubes to, make "the noise".

Sorry man, I know it's annoying, but you can work around it and still enjoy the tubes. Especially if you already stopped the headphone cable from triggering the noise.

If you have a soft cable, then you aren't getting headphone cable induced microphonics - which is great, as that is the worst part of it. Triggering the Microphonics by simply moving your head - moving the headphone cable - is the worst. So I'm happy to hear your cable isn't triggering the Microphonics.

For the most part we don't touch the TA-20 after plugging in and setting the volume, and as long as your headphone cable isn't triggering the sound, and you aren't bumping the table where the TA-20 sits, you are ok - until you need to adjust the volume.

That's when I use my Topping D90 MQA DAC Volume control in Preamp mode to adjust the volume of the TA-20, and it's even better using the D90 remote control!

Can you adjust the output of your DAC into the TA-20? So you never need to touch the TA-20 except to turn it on / off?

Yeah, well, I have a couple of microphonics tubes, and I still use them from time to time and I can make it work, so you can too. With some practice I've discovered how to find the operating an mode that doesn't trigger the noise.

Also, yes, you need more tubes. "More tubes" is always the most important part of any audio solution.

 

[PetFju]

That's when I use my Topping D90 MQA DAC Volume control in Preamp mode, with remote control!

Can you adjust the output of your DAC into the TA-20? So you never need to touch the TA-20 except to turn it on / off?

That is actually not a bad idea. I can use the ADI-2 as my volume control. The only issue i see with that is that there might be more noise induced in the amp itself when it is at "full gain" at all times?

BTW; Yes, as long as i leave it alone and don't touch it, it's quiet. Only when i adjust volume or touch it in any other way does it make the noise.

And yes, MOAR TUBEZ

 

[hmscott]

That is actually not a bad idea. I can use the ADI-2 as my volume control. The only issue i see with that is that there might be more noise induced in the amp itself when it is at "full gain" at all times?

BTW; Yes, as long as i leave it alone and don't touch it, it's quiet. Only when i adjust volume or touch it in any other way does it make the noise.

And yes, MOAR TUBEZ

OMG, please don't put the TA-20 at full gain! Yipe!

Well, it would be "fine", I've tested it a couple of times at 100% when testing new cables - to find the best shielded cable(s), and now I have no noise out of the TA-20 at 100% volume, but it's not necessary to run the TA-20 at 100%, in face you want to run the DAC closest to 100% for the best sound integrity.

Basically, you want to run all the "data source" device chain at 100% volume - ideally the PC (source) + DAC both run at a 100% fixed output voltage into the headphone amp for best signal to noise ratio, and the headphone volume is controlling the level heard in the headphones.

The way I do it is to set the DAC / Source output to 100%, and then find the normal maximum Volume setting on the Headphone AMP where I normally leave it set to listen to music/video, and then use the DAC variable output to lower the volume from "normal", to reduce the sound in the headphones.

This way I am not dropping the DAC output much - maintaining maximum source S/N ratio - and the Headphone AMP is at it's "optimal" Volume setting too.

Of course, we cannot increase the headphone output once we are at 100% on the DAC, so then we'd need to increase the volume on the TA-20... and eventually I found the optimal highest volume setting on the TA-20 that would in concert with the D90 remote control volume output, be satisfactory for hands off volume range control of the TA-20 output.
And yes, MOAR TUBEZ!

 

[PetFju]

@hmscott Ok, i see what you mean now. I thought you meant to use basically use the TA-20 as a "power-amp" and the dac as a "pre".
But yea, i think i optimized the output volume already, but there is some available adjustment in the DAC as it is atm, so i'll try that to see how it fares. There is also the option to use the windows volume more as well, even though it is sonically inferior.
I'll try some different things and find what i like the best.

 

[hmscott]

@hmscott Ok, i see what you mean now. I thought you meant to use basically use the TA-20 as a "power-amp" and the dac as a "pre".
But yea, i think i optimized the output volume already, but there is some available adjustment in the DAC as it is atm, so i'll try that to see how it fares. There is also the option to use the windows volume more as well, even though it is sonically inferior.
I'll try some different things and find what i like the best.

I went looking for tube dampers, and found this review of a bunch of options (at the time the article was written):

Herbie's Tube Damper Comparison
https://herbiesaudiolab.com/pages/herbies-tube-damper-comparison

Herbies Tube Dampers
https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/tube-dampers

Perhaps a note to Herbie to let him know what tubes you have and what the characteristics of the noise you are hearing would help him recommend single/double rings per tube, or? Plus other damping suggestions - Herbie would be the guy to ask, with all those years of experience designing, testing, and marketing real solutions.

This is the first I've seen of this site, never talked with Herbie, but a first read on the situation tells me he would be worth contacting

 

[PetFju]

I went looking for tube dampers, and found this review of a bunch of options (at the time the article was written):

Herbie's Tube Damper Comparison
https://herbiesaudiolab.com/pages/herbies-tube-damper-comparison

Herbies Tube Dampers
https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/tube-dampers

I already ordered some Audio research tube dampers from a local retailer (as shipping will be much quicker), but thanks for the tip
Especially interesting to have the list of different types for posterity (i might try different ones)

 

[hmscott]

I already ordered some Audio research tube dampers from a local retailer (as shipping will be much quicker), but thanks for the tip
Especially interesting to have the list of different types for posterity (i might try different ones)

The customer reviews are interesting too, with photo's of their tube amps + damping solutions.

What is the link to the product(s) you ordered - seller/manufacturer's product pages, both?

 

[PetFju]

https://www.mono.no/audio-research/9633126/audio-research--tube-dampers-pr-stk-2-stk-rør-dempere-anbefales-pr-rør

Don't have the manufacturers link unfortunately

Also, the site is in Norwegian (obviously) as the store is located in Norway.

 

[hmscott]

A thread elsewhere - I haven't even looked here on head-fi yet

"Best tube dampers that you have used"
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/best-tube-dampers-that-you-have-used

Note: I haven't used any of these dampers myself (yet?).