[PetFju]

There exists such info out there - I dug it up when I started looking for 12xx7 headphone amps - before I decided on the Xduoo TA-20 and that info helped me decide on the Xduoo TA-20. It'll take me a little while to pull it together again, but I'll drop some as I find it

I'm sure there are a bunch of others out there with a TA-20 that would be able to contribute their favorites

@Audiophile PT

On this note; I just picked up my Philips Miniwatt E180CC SQ tubes (https://www.ebay.com/itm/133642391945?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649) 12AT7 equivalents to be used in my TA-20.
First impression (probably no surprise here..) is that i could have just not bothered buying any of the other tubes i have for this amp.
I would have saved (quite a bit) of money just buying these in the first place. So to anyone looking for the best starting point although somewhat pricey (100$ + - depending), it'll probably save you in the long run if you're the type to "set and forget" tubes, as opposed to a rolling fanatic.
If you're in it for the game, to roll tubes and just have a marry old time doing so, then start with whatever you fancy.
But if you want to spend once, and be happy with the fact that it probably doesn't get much better for a reasonable amount; then these should be it.

Obviously this is my glaringly subjective opinion, and must be understood as such. But to me this is going to be "endgame" for this amp. Simple as that.
Also worth mentioning is that this is paired with Hifiman Sundara balanced in my case, and obviously YMMV as far as your taste in sound signature.

Compared to the TA-26 This is now a in a kind of strange place, as it sounds more detailed and "cleaner", however i guess it can be percieved as bright in comparison. The TA-20 still has that tubey "space, glow and glare" which is so fascinating. I guess the TA-20 with these tubes sound more "high end"?
It's hard to describe really, but it's just a little more dynamic than with any of the other tubes i've tried with it, that includes the Mullard 12AT7's, which are a bargain buy for this amp in my opinion (about 50$ or so) and a great pairing as well.

Again; my opinion/experience with my setup and my points of reference. But i now have quite a few spare pairs of 12AU7's ..

 

[Audiophile PT]

@Audiophile PT

On this note; I just picked up my Philips Miniwatt E180CC SQ tubes (https://www.ebay.com/itm/133642391945?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649) 12AT7 equivalents to be used in my TA-20.
First impression (probably no surprise here..) is that i could have just not bothered buying any of the other tubes i have for this amp.
I would have saved (quite a bit) of money just buying these in the first place. So to anyone looking for the best starting point although somewhat pricey (100$ + - depending), it'll probably save you in the long run if you're the type to "set and forget" tubes, as opposed to a rolling fanatic.
If you're in it for the game, to roll tubes and just have a marry old time doing so, then start with whatever you fancy.
But if you want to spend once, and be happy with the fact that it probably doesn't get much better for a reasonable amount; then these should be it.

Obviously this is my glaringly subjective opinion, and must be understood as such. But to me this is going to be "endgame" for this amp. Simple as that.
Also worth mentioning is that this is paired with Hifiman Sundara balanced in my case, and obviously YMMV as far as your taste in sound signature.

Compared to the TA-26 This is now a in a kind of strange place, as it sounds more detailed and "cleaner", however i guess it can be percieved as bright in comparison. The TA-20 still has that tubey "space, glow and glare" which is so fascinating. I guess the TA-20 with these tubes sound more "high end"?
It's hard to describe really, but it's just a little more dynamic than with any of the other tubes i've tried with it, that includes the Mullard 12AT7's, which are a bargain buy for this amp in my opinion (about 50$ or so) and a great pairing as well.

Again; my opinion/experience with my setup and my points of reference. But i now have quite a few spare pairs of 12AU7's ..

Thanks for the info @PetFju
I'm looking for a set of TA-20 Tubes that could smooth the accentuated treble signature of the Meze Liric.
For this particular purpose perhaps those Philips are not enough.
Could you please give me some more insight about the difference between the Mullard's and the Philips.
Thanks.

 

[PetFju]

Thanks for the info @PetFju
I'm looking for a set of TA-20 Tubes that could smooth the accentuated treble signature of the Meze Liric.
For this particular purpose perhaps those Philips are not enough.
Could you please give me some more insight about the difference between the Mullard's and the Philips.
Thanks.

I see. If you want tubes that will shave off some highs you might want to look into some version of 12AU7 Mullard NOS tubes. Exactly which ones i am not sure of as there are a few different versions with different plates, getters and pins, and i am not well versed in them, but there is much info to gain by a simple google search on the topic.
That said the Mullard 12AT7's i refer to in my previous post are more similar to the E180CC tubes, and as such are considered more detailed and "clear" sounding. If your goal is to shave off some highs you want something different. Someone else will have to chime in here, as i have little experience with Mullard 12AU7's.

BTW; did you look into some simple EQ'ing for that purpose? I mean with tubes it could be a bit "hit or miss", but with eq you can hone in on your target sound a bit more easily and get exactly what you're after.
Anyways, just a thought there. I use a RME adi-2 dac with a very good built in digital eq option, which is great if needed. Or one can use Schiit Lokius (?) which i believe is an analog eq, or PEACE software if you want to do it in the digital pc-realm.

 

[hmscott]

Yup, the E180CC of various makes/factories/years are "end game" for the TA-20 in many ways, but give it some time as you may find as you get more rounded tubes for the TA-26 that the E180CC's are a bit sharp/bright/edgy, or not, it all depends on your own personal preference. One persons perfect tube choice may not be yours.

Also headphones play a big role in what we hear from our tubes. The Sennheiser's roll off the High's, so you may not be hearing the "sharp high's" I was hearing on the TA-26 stock tubes I was hearing through the Hifiman Ananda and sensitive IEM's with treble extension. On those the sharpness was quite annoying, that is why I moved to the Sennheiser HD660s's - I could still tell it was sharp, but it wasn't as annoying. When the GE 6AS7G Straight wall tubes arrived the sharpness slightly reduced, but I stayed with the HD660s until the first Sylvania VT-231 arrived, and the sharpness was completely gone. Now I'm listening to sensitive IEM's on the TA-26, and they sound great!

@Audiophile PT - There are more rounded tubes for the TA-20, like the Tungsram 12AU7 "Black Glass" - those were "end game" for me, found after my previous "end game" tubes, the 6201 Sylvania's, and after both of those the Brimar 6060's (12AT7) were yet another notch up further in the "end game" territory.

I found the Mullard's of the 50's/60's to be not as sharp as the E180CC Mullard, while not being as dynamic - yet at the time I was enjoying them, before the E180CC - those 12AT7/M8162/CV4024 Milspec Mullards of the 50's were also "end game" tubes. Are we seeing a pattern here?

But, I do agree with @PetFju - a TA-20 owner could save money overall by simply jumping the line of progression many of us have traveled right to a pair of 12AT7 / ECC81 / E180CC, or E80CC tubes made in Heerlen Holland, or Mitcham England, as a first upgrade pair, and be quite happy for a long time, but there will always be that itch to find something better. How does one know those are the "best" for you without having heard the progression of subsequently better and better tubes along the way?

There are E180CC's that a pair will cost well under $100, if you keep a vigil eye for good prices / sales. And, if you put those in your cart - a bunch / all of the available options - and wait patiently, likely as not some seller eager to meet their monthly payments will Make an Offer with a discount for 10%/20% even 50% off!

If you look back at my posts here on head-fi - search for TA-20 by hmscott - and on ASR, same hmscott username, I have posted a number of TA-20 tube feedback for my own purchases, and I also posted some of that early info as well... I'll get around to posting it here too, but a simple search on those 2 sites should find what I have posted so far.

Update: I've been watching a Movie on DVD with Cyberlink PowerDVD and it has that TrueTheater Surround, set to Living Room + Full Dynamic Range , and moving from the TA-20 with Mullard '68 M8162 Copper Posts Mitchem Factory, which sounds awesome, plugging into the TA-26 with GE 6AS7G Straight Wall Tubes + Sylvania 6SN7GTA Chrome Top Tall Boy's, and Wow! There's a huge increase in space and dynamics! No contest the TA-26 is much more involving in this particular sound track.

Update: I switched to the E180CC Mullard Heerlen Holland tubes, and Wow again!, the jump up from the Mullard Mitchem M8162's is clear, but still not as wide dynamic and deep as the TA-26 with the same GE/Sylvania tubes.

Also, a neat trick I finally figured out on the TA-20! The black metal guard tube cages can fit *over* the tips of the E180CC's! That's right, the cage top is *Hollow* at the tube apex, and the tips of the E180CC tubes fit right up into the guard, nice.

 

[cirodts]

i have a sennheiser hd 650 "300 hom" new version with silver drivers, what do you recommend between a ta-20 and a ta-26? and why?

 

[hmscott]

i have a sennheiser hd 650 "300 hom" new version with silver drivers, what do you recommend between a ta-20 and a ta-26? and why?

Well, I haven't used an HD650 nor a 300 ohm headphone on the TA-20 nor TA-26, so I would only be sharing what I have heard from others experiences with the HD600/HD650 300 ohm headphones on Tube and Tube/Hybrid amplifiers.

In my experience the TA-26 in general does better than the TA-20 with higher impedance headphones, my 600 ohm Beyerdynamic headphones sound much better on the TA-26 vs TA-20, but I had no problems enjoying my Beyerdynamic 600 ohm headphones on the TA-20 before I got the TA-26.

I do enjoy my HD660s 120 ohm headphones on both the TA-20 and TA-26 with both having installed each the best tubes I've found so far. The TA-26 edges out the TA-20 only so much, but going back to the TA-20 I have no problem listening there for hours.

I will say that there are also definite differences between the Tube/SS sound vs Tube only sound, and it isn't so much that one is better than the other, as the characteristics of both the TA-20 and TA-26 are engaging to me. Neither are perfect, but both are engaging and enjoyable to listen with my headphones.

I think after hearing both, you'll probably want both, as I am finding too - I can see there will be times I'll want to switch back to the TA-20 to change up the sound characteristics - and then back to the TA-26; as our ears can get too much of a good thing and all that goes with it.

I have had the 300 ohm Sennheisers on my radar for a long time, but I've got enough headphones for now, as I need more tubes more than more headphones...

 

[PetFju]

In my experience the TA-26 in general does better than the TA-20 with higher impedance headphones, my 600 ohm Beyerdynamic headphones sound much better on the TA-26 vs TA-20, but I had no problems enjoying my Beyerdynamic 600 ohm headphones on the TA-20 before I got the TA-26.

I do enjoy my HD660s 150 ohm headphones on both the TA-20 and TA-26 with both having installed each the best tubes I've found so far. The TA-26 edges out the TA-20 only so much, but going back to the TA-20 I have no problem listening there for hours.

I will say that there are also definite differences between the Tube/SS sound vs Tube only sound, and it isn't so much that one is better than the other, as the characteristics of both the TA-20 and TA-26 are engaging to me. Neither are perfect, but both are engaging and enjoyable to listen with my headphones.

I think after hearing both, you'll probably want both, as I am finding too - I can see there will be times I'll want to switch back to the TA-20 to change up the sound characteristics - and then back to the TA-26; as our ears can get too much of a good thing and all that goes with it.

I couldn't agree more. I've spent the majority of my time since purchase using my TA-26 with a pair of HD-58X which are 150 ohms. The TA-26 has zero issues running them to what i believe is their limits and far beyond as far as sheer volume goes.
The last day or two i've spent some time using the Beyer DT880 600ohms as well, and the same goes for those really. Depending on what output gain i push from my dac i either end at max 3 o'clock or 1 o'clock. So no issues. And it drives them with control and plenty of dynamic headroom for my listening levels. Way better than the TA-20 does for the Dt880.
The only other amp i have that come close to the TA-26 is the Atrox V2 (solid state), which outputs approximately 500mw (2x500mw single ended according to specs) at 600 ohms, and 20w at 8ohms. You could basically run a pair of speakers with that thing, so that should tell you something.
Anyways; Great amps, both the TA-26 and the TA-20. Btw i tried running my Sundaras with the TA-26. That was a complete folly, just killed the dynamics of the planars completely, even at full tilt. So that was a futile exercise. So the stated 60-600 ohms load suggestion from Xduoo should at least be kept in mind when pulling the trigger on the TA-26. The TA-20 on the Sundaras on the other hand; To say that they are a superb match would be an understatement

 

[kibot]

I couldn't agree more. I've spent the majority of my time since purchase using my TA-26 with a pair of HD-58X which are 150 ohms. The TA-26 has zero issues running them to what i believe is their limits and far beyond as far as sheer volume goes.
The last day or two i've spent some time using the Beyer DT880 600ohms as well, and the same goes for those really. Depending on what output gain i push from my dac i either end at max 3 o'clock or 1 o'clock. So no issues. And it drives them with control and plenty of dynamic headroom for my listening levels. Way better than the TA-20 does for the Dt880.
The only other amp i have that come close to the TA-26 is the Atrox V2 (solid state), which outputs approximately 500mw (2x500mw single ended according to specs) at 600 ohms, and 20w at 8ohms. You could basically run a pair of speakers with that thing, so that should tell you something.
Anyways; Great amps, both the TA-26 and the TA-20. Btw i tried running my Sundaras with the TA-26. That was a complete folly, just killed the dynamics of the planars completely, even at full tilt. So that was a futile exercise. So the stated 60-600 ohms load suggestion from Xduoo should at least be kept in mind when pulling the trigger on the TA-26. The TA-20 on the Sundaras on the other hand; To say that they are a superb match would be an understatement

Privet! ✌
What do you mean about "That was a complete folly, just killed the dynamics of the planars completely, even at full tilt" ?
When i used TA 26 with Takstar HF580 planars thats was very dynamic,but with some distortions i high volume (i think that was cuz of broken transformer )
So i will wait my TA 26 and will try it again with HF580

 

[PetFju]

Privet! ✌
What do you mean about "That was a complete folly, just killed the dynamics of the planars completely, even at full tilt" ?
When i used TA 26 with Takstar HF580 planars thats was very dynamic,but with some distortions i high volume (i think that was cuz of broken transformer )
So i will wait my TA 26 and will try it again with HF580

Sorry if i was unclear What that means is simply that the Sundaras didn't sound right, or dynamic, even when the TA-26 was at full volume output. It did get loud, but at one point it was like the TA-26 simply ran out of power, and it didn't get any louder, even when turning the volume wheel. Also there was just lacklustre bass and bad dynamics.
Btw; all planars are different, so "your miles may vary", and it may well be that the Takstar you mention will work just fine For your sake i hope they fare better than the Sundaras!

 

[cirodts]

Sorry if i was unclear What that means is simply that the Sundaras didn't sound right, or dynamic, even when the TA-26 was at full volume output. It did get loud, but at one point it was like the TA-26 simply ran out of power, and it didn't get any louder, even when turning the volume wheel. Also there was just lacklustre bass and bad dynamics.
Btw; all planars are different, so "your miles may vary", and it may well be that the Takstar you mention will work just fine For your sake i hope they fare better than the Sundaras!

I have never understood why there is so much fuss for the sundara, it has a thin sound and is often too bright and it is very difficult to pair it with an amplifier that makes it sound good.

 

[kibot]

Sorry if i was unclear What that means is simply that the Sundaras didn't sound right, or dynamic, even when the TA-26 was at full volume output. It did get loud, but at one point it was like the TA-26 simply ran out of power, and it didn't get any louder, even when turning the volume wheel. Also there was just lacklustre bass and bad dynamics.
Btw; all planars are different, so "your miles may vary", and it may well be that the Takstar you mention will work just fine For your sake i hope they fare better than the Sundaras!

ah i understand now great thanx!!

 

[PetFju]

I have never understood why there is so much fuss for the sundara, it has a thin sound and is often too bright and it is very difficult to pair it with an amplifier that makes it sound good.

That is your opinion. There are many like it, but that one is yours
Anyways, i guess it depends on many factors whether you like them or not. They are not in any way, shape or form the be all and end all of headphones, but for me they have a place in my setup. They aren't the ones i use the most, or least.
They are quite neutral, but thin? That is not my experience. Well, that is to say that with the right pairing of source and amp they sound great with a lot of music, i'll even go as far as to say most music. At least my pair, with my gear. But i will end this post like i started it; That's my opinion. There are many like it, but that one is mine. Cheers

 

[cirodts]

That is your opinion. There are many like it, but that one is yours
Anyways, i guess it depends on many factors whether you like them or not. They are not in any way, shape or form the be all and end all of headphones, but for me they have a place in my setup. They aren't the ones i use the most, or least.
They are quite neutral, but thin? That is not my experience. Well, that is to say that with the right pairing of source and amp they sound great with a lot of music, i'll even go as far as to say most music. At least my pair, with my gear. But i will end this post like i started it; That's my opinion. There are many like it, but that one is mine. Cheers

yes, in fact, it is a simple impression of mine, being extremely neutral the sundara never gave me that sense of fullness of the instrument I was looking for despite having combined it with different amps.

 

[PetFju]

yes, in fact, it is a simple impression of mine, being extremely neutral the sundara never gave me that sense of fullness of the instrument I was looking for despite having combined it with different amps.

Gotcha. Sorry to hear that, as i find it to be quite a good value, as many others have concluded before me. However, i see how one could come to the same conclusion as you.
It's the same way with speakers for me. I have had quite expensive hifi-speakers, which were great neutral and linear sounding. However, i always seem to have come back to Klipsch (examples of Klipsch's i've owned are RF-7's, RF-5's and Cornwall 3's, Heresy 3's) who for some reason just sound more musical, and pleases me more. They make my feet move, and just engage me in a different way than a lot of "hifi" speakers do (did).
The most engaging and fun setup i've ever owned was a McIntosh MA8000 integrated amp running Klipsch Cornwall 3's split at the bottom at 80hz to a pair of Ken Kreisel subs. Not my most expensive setup, or even close to most hifi "correct", but by far the most enjoyable and as such most utilized.
Just goes to show how things both change (now i enjoy the sundaras..lol) and are quite subjective.
There are no "right answers", and as long as we're enjoying our music all is well in the world as far as i am concerned
Edit: Sorry for the OT btw

 

[cirodts]

Gotcha. Sorry to hear that, as i find it to be quite a good value, as many others have concluded before me. However, i see how one could come to the same conclusion as you.
It's the same way with speakers for me. I have had quite expensive hifi-speakers, which were great neutral and linear sounding. However, i always seem to have come back to Klipsch (examples of Klipsch's i've owned are RF-7's, RF-5's and Cornwall 3's, Heresy 3's) who for some reason just sound more musical, and pleases me more. They make my feet move, and just engage me in a different way than a lot of "hifi" speakers do (did).
The most engaging and fun setup i've ever owned was a McIntosh MA8000 integrated amp running Klipsch Cornwall 3's split at the bottom at 80hz to a pair of Ken Kreisel subs. Not my most expensive setup, or even close to most hifi "correct", but by far the most enjoyable and as such most utilized.
Just goes to show how things both change (now i enjoy the sundaras..lol) and are quite subjective.
There are no "right answers", and as long as we're enjoying our music all is well in the world as far as i am concerned
Edit: Sorry for the OT btw

I understand you ... I also have klipsch.