[dweaver]

^
I would agree with this analysis as well. I have heard HD600 from better rigs than mine and they scale very nicely and sound even better but they sound darn fine with my lower cost amp and sound pretty darn sweet even from my Auzentech Forte card. The HD595 on the other hand are really designed to be used on lower impdence systems and do not change alot in the way they sound if the OP gets a better amp down the road.

BTW the Nuforce amp HeadphoneAddict is recommending will balance out the sound of the HD600 quite well since it's a colder amp (something I get from my amp as well) and as he has said if you get an even better amp later you can still use the Nuforce amp as a USB based DAC. You get decent sound today without throwing away your investment tomorrow.

 

[hentai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif HAVE YOU HEARD THE HD600 WITH EITHER OF THE TWO $100 AMPS I RECOMMENDED? I agree a good amp will squeeze the most out of the HD600, and many portable amps wont cut it, nor will unamped. But a few inexpensive amps do a nicer job than others. The original poster asked if the HD600 are worth it with a $100 DAC/amp. I mentioned TWO DAC/amp that could drive them well enough that I can enjoy even though I have an $8000 electrostatic rig and a $5000 dynamic headphone rig. If he doesn't like the HD600 out of the uDAC or Vivid V1, then he probably wont like HD600 with anything. If he does like them, he'll be thrilled to hear them with a better amp later when/if he upgrades. But if he gets the HD595 and likes them from a $100 rig, I suspect he wont like them a whole lot better even if he upgrades to a $1000 rig. I'm out.

Though I have no experience with the amps you have recommended in the thread, I don't think I am wrong in saying that in 'general' $100 amp/dacs don't do any justice to it. To be at the safe side of things, its better to avoid hd600 if the ts wants enjoyment in this budget and doesn't have any intention to upgrade in future. My two cents.....

 

[Ham Sandwich]

What kind of music do you listen to? What do you listen for or what kind of sound do you like? Is tone and smoothness and pleasantness more important than dynamics and aggression?

Keep in mind that the HD580 is over 15 years old and is essentially the same as the HD600. Back then the hi-fi headphone amps that we know now didn't really exist. The big rigs and balanced amps that we have now that some people claim to be needed to make the HD600 shine didn't exist. Yet people listened to the HD580 and enjoyed them. Most people were listening to the HD580 plugged into integrated home stereo amps. It was good. The people who say you need $600 minimum of dedicated headphone amplification now just to enjoy the HD600 are ignoring how much the HD580 and HD600 were enjoyed in the past with much lesser amplification.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dweaver /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^ I would agree with this analysis as well. I have heard HD600 from better rigs than mine and they scale very nicely and sound even better but they sound darn fine with my lower cost amp and sound pretty darn sweet even from my Auzentech Forte card. The HD595 on the other hand are really designed to be used on lower impdence systems and do not change alot in the way they sound if the OP gets a better amp down the road. BTW the Nuforce amp HeadphoneAddict is recommending will balance out the sound of the HD600 quite well since it's a colder amp (something I get from my amp as well) and as he has said if you get an even better amp later you can still use the Nuforce amp as a USB based DAC. You get decent sound today without throwing away your investment tomorrow.

Small note - it's the Nuforce Icon Mobile that is colder sounding and it wont drive the HD600 that well. The uDAC is warmer sounding, but it still will drive the HD600 much better than the portable Icon due to more power. The uDAC even sounds good with HD800.

The Vivid V1 that I recommended seems to have even more power (belying it's 5v power supply, so it must have a voltage multiplier or something). But the V1's DAC is not nearly as detailed and spacious as the one in the uDAC, although V1 can be used with an iPod and the uDAC is computer only. The V1 just has nice synergy with HD600 and can pound out the bass lines. I would not use the V1 as a DAC to feed a nicer amp later, but the uDAC's RCA out into a high end amp sounds wonderful.

PS: Nankai's HD580 at RMAF sounded like my HD600, not much different.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hentai /img/forum/go_quote.gif Though I have no experience with the amps you have recommended in the thread, I don't think I am wrong in saying that in 'general' $100 amp/dacs don't do any justice to it. To be at the safe side of things, its better to avoid hd600 if the ts wants enjoyment in this budget and doesn't have any intention to upgrade in future. My two cents.....

As a general rule, true. But as I said, there are a few exceptions.

Another general rule is don't drive HD600 with portable amps; but something like the 3MOVE can come close to desktop amps at the same price, while including a DAC, crossfeed, and portability. So, there are exceptions. The $99 V1 is not as good as the 3MOVE, but it's decent and has got great power to pound out some infected mushroom and make your face vibrate with HD600 (and still do classical/jazz/rock/acoustic).

 

[Melanter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hentai /img/forum/go_quote.gif Though I have no experience with the amps you have recommended in the thread, I don't think I am wrong in saying that in 'general' $100 amp/dacs don't do any justice to it. To be at the safe side of things, its better to avoid hd600 if the ts wants enjoyment in this budget and doesn't have any intention to upgrade in future. My two cents.....

So if I am not really planning to upgrade my amp etc down the line, but probably stick with this $100 combo for a while, I'm better with the 595?

If I sometimes want to listen straight out of my iPod I'm better with the 595?

Quote:

What kind of music do you listen to? What do you listen for or what kind of sound do you like? Is tone and smoothness and pleasantness more important than dynamics and aggression?

The sound I'm looking for is a full, immersive, warm sound yet with a great deal of clarity, so I guess tone and smoothness. I listen to a lot of different kinds of music. Classic rock, recently alternative stuff, hip hop, and here and there a bunch of other things.

 

[Melanter]

(Double post)

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melanter /img/forum/go_quote.gif So if I am not really planning to upgrade my amp etc down the line I'm better with the 595? If I sometimes want to listen straight out of my iPod I'm better with the 595? The sound I'm looking for is a full, immersive, warm sound yet with a great deal of clarity. I listen to a lot of different kinds of music. Classic rock, recently alternative stuff, hip hop, and here and there a bunch of other things.

As for me, I wont buy the HD595 or HD555. I spent some time with well broken-in demos at the local hi-fi store on several occasions, and their almost fresh out of the box Denon D2000 destroyed them sonically. Maybe those would be better for you, since they don't require an amp.

Have you actually heard any of these headphones? Can you get to a local meet to hear more headphones?

 

[Melanter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for me, I wont buy the HD595 or HD555. I spent some time with well broken-in demos at the local hi-fi store on several occasions, and their almost fresh out of the box Denon D2000 destroyed them sonically. Maybe those would be better for you, since they don't require an amp. Have you actually heard any of these headphones? Can you get to a local meet to hear more headphones?

I've only heard the 595, it was the only one my store had. I don't know if there's a meet anytime soon in my area (Toronto?)
And I'm pretty eager to get something.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melanter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've only heard the 595, it was the only one my store had. I don't know if there's a meet anytime soon in my area (Toronto?) And I'm pretty eager to get something.

Stay on top of the meets forum Local / Regional Head-Fi Meets, Parties, Get-Togethers - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio and watch for one in your area, and if one hasn't been done in a while and isn't posted as planned yet, maybe you could organize a meet. Look up local hi-fi stores within 1-50 miles and go listen to some gear.

I still would rather have the HD600/V1 amp (to use it with iPod and computer USB) than a HD595 with any amp or no amp.

You didn't even say what you thought about the HD595. It sounds like if you liked them a lot you'd already have them.

 

[Mr.Sneis]

IMO the hd600 is in a completely different league than the hd595.

I liked the hd595 for watching movies which it was very good at, but not for serious listening.

If you can't afford a nice amp I would still recommend to stick with the hd600.

 

[dweaver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif Small note - it's the Nuforce Icon Mobile that is colder sounding and it wont drive the HD600 that well. The uDAC is warmer sounding, but it still will drive the HD600 much better than the portable Icon due to more power. The uDAC even sounds good with HD800.

DOH! my apologies in regards to which Amp you were talking about. I thought uDac was a short version for USB Dac my bad...

BTW how is your RW Audio Amp1 review coming along?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melanter /img/forum/go_quote.gif So if I am not really planning to upgrade my amp etc down the line, but probably stick with this $100 combo for a while, I'm better with the 595? If I sometimes want to listen straight out of my iPod I'm better with the 595? The sound I'm looking for is a full, immersive, warm sound yet with a great deal of clarity, so I guess tone and smoothness. I listen to a lot of different kinds of music. Classic rock, recently alternative stuff, hip hop, and here and there a bunch of other things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Sneis /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMO the hd600 is in a completely different league than the hd595. I liked the hd595 for watching movies which it was very good at, but not for serious listening. If you can't afford a nice amp I would still recommend to stick with the hd600.

I want to stress to Melanter that I have listened to HD600 on dozens of amps - some inadequate, some okay, some nice, and others very nice. The HD600 can challenge or compete with more costly headphones when used with a good DAC and amp. With a $200 APS v3 cable, my $250 (used) HD600 can sound as good or better than my Grado RS-1 and APS V3 cable that cost 2x as much.

With inexpensive amps for the HD600, one can be left wishing for more power, warmth, detail, sparkle or impact IF you choose the wrong amp. Some $400-500 portable amps can have great sonic balance with HD600 but lack the power to rock out with them or experience good bass impact. Some portable amps will stand out as being HD600 compatible - the Meier 3MOVE is probably the best portable USB DAC/Amp for HD600 that I have reviewed, but the Vivid V1 came close. While they both sound great with HD600, the 3MOVE is a better amp and sounds better with a wider variety of headphones and IEM. While the Vivid V1 sounded like it was made for HD600, it was one of my last choices for Grados. Also, the 3MOVE and V1 are not set up to be used as a source to feed a bigger amp, although you can use them with an iPod and not just a computer like the uDAC, which is set up to be used to also feed a better amp. The uDAC has slightly less power, but still had pretty good bass impact along with much better detail and soundstage, and it's power still noticeably beat most of my 5v portable DAC/amps with HD600. I have links to these reviews in my public profile. Take a look.

Now, I made suggestions of affordable amps that I thought have good synergy with the HD600, but if you decide to wander off the path and pick something not on the list you may end up being disappointed. Not all inexpensive amps are equivalent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dweaver /img/forum/go_quote.gif DOH! my apologies in regards to which Amp you were talking about. I thought uDac was a short version for USB Dac my bad... BTW how is your RW Audio Amp1 review coming along?

I'm working on it. I have finished burn-in and am doing listening, but I must complete the final part of my iBasso D4 review first. Then I have to do my Westone 2 review. I only just finished reviewing 3 cables a few days ago, and I know there is another review that I am forgetting about somewhere (it will come to me).

 

[hentai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melanter /img/forum/go_quote.gif So if I am not really planning to upgrade my amp etc down the line, but probably stick with this $100 combo for a while, I'm better with the 595? If I sometimes want to listen straight out of my iPod I'm better with the 595?

It's impossible for me to determine if hd595 or hd600 is better for you as the differences between these 2 are matter of preference. Hd595 sounded more lively and less refined compared to hd600 when I tested them on low budget setup few years back. Surely the hd600 improves as you upgrade your components but that doesn't mean it will definately suit your taste. Listen to both of them 1st.

If you get hd600, you may try means and ways to get it sound more lively like change tubes, cable, amp and source.

Last year, I went to a buyer's house for audition. He expressed interest in getting my recabled hd600 but he wanted to listen to the headphone 1st. His setup consisted marantz cd63se, darkvoice amp and dt880. We listened and compared headphones on this setup and the buyer began to hestitate on purchasing the hd600. Why? Dt880 had more treble presence to him. For me, the hd600 on his setup ( my setup was superior imo) still sounded better to me than dt880 but I agreed on his observation.

Just get portapro

just kidding

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hentai /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's impossible for me to determine if hd595 or hd600 is better for you as the differences between these 2 are matter of preference. Hd595 sounded more lively and less refined compared to hd600 when I tested them on low budget setup few years back. Surely the hd600 improves as you upgrade your components but that doesn't mean it will definately suit your taste. Listen to both of them 1st. If you get hd600, you may try means and ways to get it sound more lively like change tubes, cable, amp and source. Last year, I went to a buyer's house for audition. He expressed interest in getting my recabled hd600 but he wanted to listen to the headphone 1st. His setup consisted marantz cd63se, darkvoice amp and dt880. We listened and compared headphones on this setup and the buyer began to hestitate on purchasing the hd600. Why? Dt880 had more treble presence to him. For me, the hd600 on his setup ( my setup was superior imo) still sounded better to me than dt880 but I agreed on his observation. Just get portapro just kidding

Good example of how synergy or lack thereof can be a deciding factor.

Of course with the DarkVoice 336i, just changing the tubes will dramatically change how it sounds with one phone or another. Wrong tubes for HD600 = no sparkle, or muddy sound, or thin sound, etc. Put a Sylvania VT-231 in the front socket with Tung Sol 5998 in the rear and voila, an HD600 compatible amp is created with nice detail and sparkle (but too thin and bright with ATH-W5000, and too boomy in the bass with Darth Beyer V3). Put in a Hytron brown-base 5692 in and you can enjoy the W5000 a little better. Switch to a Raytheon 6080 in the rear with a CBS 6SN7GT in front and now it works better with a Darth Beyer V3, but sounds too thin with an HD600. And it goes on and on.