[PSmith08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd Listening to Atom Heart Mother as I type and (wow!) what a piece of crap it really is, that man who thinks The Final Cut is crap really doesn't have a clue and is missing the plot (IMO) The Final cut (IMO) is one of Floyds greatest works. Pinkie.

I think the problem is that TFC has is that it doesn't sound like DSOTM or WTWH. Waters decided to say something with his lyrics, as opposed to saying occasionally absurd and often oblique things with conviction. As much as I like DSOTM and WYWH, I have to say that TFC is the infinitely more mature and sensitive album. Waters says what he means and doesn't couch it in vague wordplay. If that makes it bad, then so be it.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSmith08 I think the problem is that TFC has is that it doesn't sound like DSOTM or WTWH. Waters decided to say something with his lyrics, as opposed to saying occasionally absurd and often oblique things with conviction. As much as I like DSOTM and WYWH, I have to say that TFC is the infinitely more mature and sensitive album. Waters says what he means and doesn't couch it in vague wordplay. If that makes it bad, then so be it.

100% agree with you. TFC is a very "High-end" listen

newbies and misinformed wankers should steer clear

Pinkiest.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd 100% agree with you. TFC is a very "High-end" listen newbies and misinformed wankers should steer clear Pinkiest.

For the first time ever I have seen someone doing justice in public to this album, Jesus!!! this album is simply magnificent, everytime a group mature, people began to talk BS about them, (same as Metallica, Yes, and many others) why are always the later productions considered as bad, while they show a more musical taste and refination, and a lot more sense for the old listeners....???


BTW there is another work in wehich they play not included on that list "Zabriskie Point", another soundtrack...

 

[PSmith08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller For the first time ever I have seen someone doing justice in public to this album, Jesus!!! this album is simply magnificent, everytime a group mature, people began to talk BS about them, (same as Metallica, Yes, and many others) why are always the later productions considered as bad, while they show a more musical taste and refination, and a lot more sense for the old listeners....???

If TFC was a tired re-hash of DSOTM or WTWH, people would praise it as the third greatest PF album. However, since it is a new sound, it is somehow bad. If Pink Floyd wasn't so adept at reinventing itself during the glory years, it would have withered on the vine and critics would have written them off as a clever psychedelic rock group. Because they could change, they endure. TFC is proof of that.

It's also just a really good album.

 

[fyrfytrhoges]

ive been saying as long as ive been on this forum that the final cut was a great album....

 

[Sovkiller]

It is somehow IMO similar to The Wall, good melodies, and good lyrics, even though The Wall tends to go in a little more indirect way regarding the lyrics section, but it reminds me The Wall a lot sonically, is there any thing wrong with The Wall? No right? So IMO it is just a quiet album, very good, nice to listen to, that shows maturity, and common sense, very well organized and structured music, and honestly whith the exception of the very first crazy albums, I found all the Floyd discograpy very good and very easy to listen to, they hold IMO, some of the more prominent rock masterpieces of all times....

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd Listening to Atom Heart Mother as I type and (wow!) what a piece of crap it really is, that man who thinks The Final Cut is crap really doesn't have a clue and is missing the plot (IMO) The Final cut (IMO) is one of Floyds greatest works. Pinkie.

The Final Cut sounds stupid to me.

I cannot hear Waters' pathetic, whiny, lacking vocals. I cannot stand the fact that he's essentially performing improvised poetry behind some beautiful music.

I can't take it!

The voice is what ruins the entire album for me. If the album were just the instrumentals, I'd love it - but Waters like usual during that time period had to ruin it by putting in poorly-written lyrics and really, REALLY bad vocals (to the point where it's laughable) and ruin a perfectly good instrumentation track.

If this is what you guys think is representative of Roger Waters' best lyrical and vocal work, then somebody's gotta get their ears checked. I, for one, do not sympathize with Roger Waters because of how poorly-demonstrated the album is. If it were done better, maybe I'd put more of my brain power towards the understanding of the plot and less time towards "What the hell was he thinking?" kind of ideas.

Simply put, I cannot listen to this album. I own every one, and I even like Momentary Lapse of Reason better than it, because the vocals are actually listenable, the lyrics actually worth the ink wasted to write them down, and the comically-overused "emotion" is simply not there.

Again, I dare you guys to listen to the opening or title track of "The Final Cut" and then hear something like "Grantchester Meadows", or "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun". On the one hand, you have vocals that sound so bad, and you have lyrics so horrific, that you laugh and forget about paying attention. On the other, you have very well-spoken lyrics with a very well done instrumenation in the background. Back then, Pink Floyd worked as a team, and it showed. The vocals and the instrumenation actually had the same effect and mood. The lyrics were actually readable - the band was able to put down some of Roger's inherent writing insanities.

Pink Floyd was NOT Pink Floyd without Rick Wright. Pink Floyd was also not Pink Floyd without the input from the other members. Roger Waters ruined the band - not help them. This album was their pathetic downfall. The Final Cut was a collection of throw-away songs to begin with, but even worse is when they are re-done and made to sound like the most cliched, aged, and grotesque works that the band Pink Floyd ever did.

 

[PSmith08]

Just an example:

[size=xx-small]"'Icy wind of night be gone this is not your domain' / In the sky a bird was heard to cry. / Misty morning whisperings and gentle stirring sounds / Belied the deathly silence that lay all around. / Hear the lark and harken to the barking of the dog fox / Gone to ground. / See the splashing of the kingfisher flashing to the water. / And a river of green is sliding unseen beneath the trees / Laughing as it passes through the endless summer / Making for the sea."

"After the service when you're walking slowly to the car / And the silver in her hair shines in the cold November air / You hear the tolling bell / And touch the silk in your lapel / And as the tear drops rise to meet the comfort of the band / You take her frail hand / And hold on to the dream."[/size]

Roger was and is a bit oblique, but the first example strikes me as dreadfully pretentious and a bit too self-impressed. The second, while definitely lacking the lyrical legerdemain of the first, makes its point directly and conjures up a very clear image.

I won't deny anyone their opinion, but what some call dreadful simplicity, I call clarity of vision. Perhaps that makes me dreadfully simple (I'd agree). I've been called worse things.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman No, I'd like to still consider this a "worst floyd album" poll over a "least favorite". The reason is because I want justification.

There are no absolutes.

 

[fyrfytrhoges]

i'd add to that, there are no absolutes when it comes to ones totally subjective and personal OPINION. i disagree with aman, mostly because he comes off as a know it all, questioning whether or not people need to get their ears checked because they like an album he does not. this is the reason why it doesnt make sense to argue personal taste in music, because there will always be the idiots who think they know more about what is or what is not "a good album" than everyone else. it just makes it that much more likely that ill never read anything that they post again....

 

[Aman]

Quote:

mostly because he comes off as a know it all,

This is not a good reason to disagree with somebody.

Why?

Because I certainly wasn't intending the "I am right and you're not" idea. I just have a minority opinion and expressed it strongly. I felt that really I wasn't getting my message across.

People were guessing "maybe he doesn't like The Final Cut because it doesn't sound like DSotM or etc." and this made me slightly upset. I'd like to consider myself much more than a mere fan of their popular music. In fact, out of all their albums, I seem to like the most obscure albums. Atom Heart Mother, Obscured by Clouds, and the dreaded Ummagumma are three of my favorite Pink Floyd albums. Dark Side of the Moon comes fourth, of course, but I'd much prefer these albums over Wish You Were Here or The Wall (which I happen to find quite overated).

I think the difference between the opinions is that one person, I, likes the more unified group as a whole, while the other person is a bigger fan of Roger Waters himself. And I respect that. I happen to believe that the unity of the group is what made them so great. Others, and probably most, believe that Roger Waters is what made them so great -- and again, I respect that. And then again, the first Pink Floyd album I ever heard was not Dark Side of the Moon, Animals, The Wall, or Wish You Were Here like many others - it was "Saucerful of Secrets". I may not have ever even liked Pink Floyd had "The Wall" been the first album I ever heard -- or at least I wouldn't like them nearly as much. I simply do not find The Wall as graceful as their earlier works.

If I am not mistaken, sir, you also have a tendency to be flashing your emotions all about. My "know it all" style is exactly that - just a writing style. I appologize if I offended anybody, but it's hardly an issue to be offended over. I was quite offended by being called an idiotic wanker. I think I had more than enough to go on if I sounded a bit frisky.

So keep your mouth shut. I want this thread open, so I'd like to not be attacked anymore. Thank you.

Quote:

There are no absolutes.

Indeed, there are not. And I think that again this is a mis-communication. I simply meant that usually you dislike an album just because you dislike it. When you have an opinion of the worst of a discography, normally you have something to back it up with. Low production values, change in character, lack of some sort of musical virtuosity the band used to have -- I don't know. I believe that while both are opinions, one can have a favorite album from a band that they still think is the "worst". Not very often, but it could happen.

So, what I am trying to say is -- base the selection of this poll off of whether or not the album does not contain what you think makes a good album. Don't choose merely your least favorite.

Thanks guys, and thank you in advance for understanding.

 

[periurban]

No-one should be criticised for expressing their opinion eloquently. That's why we are all reading this thread, isn't it? (Isn't it??)

What's the point in wading through pages of drivel if you don't appreciate the few properly expressed feelings? This whole exercise is about learning from one another, and learning to appreciate that although the other guy may disagree with you his viewpoint is just as valid.

I know precisely what Aman is talking about with regard to the Final Cut, having suffered those same feelings of being overwhelmed by the badly constructed emotional content of some pieces of music (of which at least two are the works of Roger Waters). For some of us, overt statements of sentimentality, no matter how sincerely they are put, are just too much.

Some of us are just more sensitive to these things than others.

I have a friend who likes clasical music and everything Roger Waters ever did. My friend is a nice bloke (well, I like him) and we share a common respect for many forms of music and particular pieces, but he has no "schmaltzometer", by which I mean there doesn't seem to be any limit to his appreciation of overtly expressed emotion.

Me, Captain Beefheart's Her Eyes Are A Blue Million Miles gives me goose bumps. My friend remains impassive.

We are all different, folks.

 

[fyrfytrhoges]

i wont keep my mouth shut because you tell me to. you wont be attacked if you dont come across as if your opinion weighs more than someone elses or when you say that people who like a certain album or vocal style as a group that needs to get their ears checked. you play you pay, if the thread gets closed because im telling it like it is so be it, but dont think you can fire back without being called on it. like i said opinions are just that, opinions. and someone who doesnt agree with you need not get their ears checked because you happen to like something different.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fyrfytrhoges i wont keep my mouth shut because you tell me to. you wont be attacked if you dont come across as if your opinion weighs more than someone elses or when you say that people who like a certain album or vocal style as a group that needs to get their ears checked. you play you pay, if the thread gets closed because im telling it like it is so be it, but dont think you can fire back without being called on it. like i said opinions are just that, opinions. and someone who doesnt agree with you need not get their ears checked because you happen to like something different.

Again, keep your mouth shut. This doesn't concern you!

You are defending him because of your agreeing views.

You didn't seem to find any problem with Pinkie saying to me the following:
Quote:

100% agree with you. TFC is a very "High-end" listen newbies and misinformed wankers should steer clear

I feel I am a very high end listener, not misinformed at all, NOR am I a "wanker".

Though, because you agree with this fella, you chose to attack me over this guy, who happened to do it first.

Please, PLEASE, just stop posting this meaningless crap!

Peruriban: Thank you for the balanced and kind words. I think you summed it up very nicely.

So many great new members coming along recently - and some oldies who are starting to show their age

 

[fyrfytrhoges]

i am not defending anyone, i was not commenting on anyone who responded to you, namely pinkfloyd. hed be the first to tell you that he and i very rarely agree on anything. i am commenting on your lack of class remarks concerning people who disagree with you needing to get their ears checked, and you seem to mysteriously forget to address that in any of your responses to me, you just respond with other attacks like telling me to shut my mouth. believe me, ask anyone, doing that is not going to help your cause with me, its more like provoking me. now do the right thing and apologize for insinuating that people who like the final cut need to have their ears checked and i will leave your poor little thread alone...