[Vosper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd So what, who cares what you think of it? I don't. I love the album and I also love the pros and cons of hitch hiking and amused to death and the opinions of someone who wasn't even a twinkle in their parents eye when the Final cut was released don't mean jack **** to me...... call it stupid, call it what you like, call me stupid, call the world stupid....... nobody gives a damn sunshine. I've followed Floyd since 1970 and I'm perfectly aware of all of their works and don't need to listen to the opinions of some kid in short pants who probably hasn't even been to one of their concerts.

Singularly one of the most arrogant and offensive posts I have read on Head-Fi. Claiming that you can't appreciate the music unless you saw a concert smacks of the irritating one-upmanship that -philes are so prone to. To hold ones own opinions in such high regard is a dangerous trait.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vosper Singularly one of the most arrogant and offensive posts I have read on Head-Fi.

You must be very easily offended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman The Final Cut sounds stupid to me.

Singularly one of the most "stupid" sentences I have read on Head-Fi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vosper Claiming that you can't appreciate the music unless you saw a concert smacks of the irritating one-upmanship that -philes are so prone to.

I never claimed anything of the sort, read my post and understand what I said in it before accusing me of one one-upmanship.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vosper To hold ones own opinions in such high regard is a dangerous trait.

I consider the Final Cut a very fine album indeed and am expressing my opinions just as Aman expressed his saying the Final Cut sounded "stupid".

No Biggie

 

[Vicious Tyrant]

Jumping in late, I'll vote for the early psychedelic stuff being the worst. I don't have an album in particular in mind, so I'll just say...oooh, say....Piper at the Gates of Dawn.

Whoever said the Division Bell sounds like Hair Metal Power Ballads owes me a new keyboard! (YOMANK!) My Dr. Pepper is scattered all over mine!

But those "Gilmore solo" albums have a listenable pop sensibility, which those early ones don't - hence my vote.

RE: TFC, I love it but I agree it has poor (or at least weird) structure. I'd say that Aman's apparent primary reason (Water's voice) for disliking it is one of its strengths - Water's unapologetic insistence on putting his (abrasive?) personality all over that album. He sings in such a raw emotional style, its no wonder some are turned off by it. People aren't used to that and some won't like it. I like that he didn't tone it down, but I certainly understand why some wouldn't enjoy it.

The weird structure keeps me from putting it at the top of my list, even though its probably the album I most enjoy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clark68 I really liked The Final Cut...even if the album was as bad as some people here were saying, it would gain an entire letter grade just for having "Not Now John" on it.

Ha! Well said!

 

[Aman]

Pink: Are you even aware that you called me an idiotic wanker before I said anything "questionable" in regards to The Final Cut??

It sounds as if I am singularly performing the evil act here! Oh yeah, and I PROBABLY know every Pink Floyd album as well as you do, and I was also most-likely not wearing shorts because that's not my thing. Sure, I've never been to a concert of theirs, but I highly doubt that the fact that you're twice my age means that you're automatically a bigger fan of the band than anybody else. The band was my life throughout high school (four years), and not once did I miss the opportunity (and still don't) to go to every live show of The Machine or the Australian Pink Floyd Experience. I am still very-much a fan. I think it's improper to discount somebody's opinion based on their age

Vicious Tyrant: I completely respect the possibility that some find the voice work very emotional, and to a respectable degree. However, I personally can find much more emotion in other songs that don't have people LITERALLY screaming, whining, and crying in them. I think that the song "When the Tigers Broke Free" in particular is kind of the highlighting of the pros and cons of Mr. Waters' work: On the plus side, it is quite expressive and very easy to catch on to, but I think that negatively, it's highly cliched and to some, it can be just plain annoying.

This is why I call the album "stupid". Because instead of the MUSIC and the CONSTRUCTION bringing us the emotion, it's Roger's voice, and it isn't particularly good to my ears. Instead, it sounds like the music you'd hear from a crappy 80's romance film. It just sounds overdone and very behind the times. I hear Meddle today and I could be fooled into thinking it was released last week - but The Final Cut has a strict mark in my history books, and it ain't going anywhere. That album just has the characteristics of a record that died the day it was released. I DO appreciate that it was so unlike the other Floyd works, but come on! If Billy Joel were singing this record, it may be different, but Roger Waters was meant to play bass and write music - he ain't no singer.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman Pink: Are you even aware that you called me an idiotic wanker before I said anything "questionable" in regards to The Final Cut??

Referring to:
Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd 100% agree with you. TFC is a very "High-end" listen newbies and misinformed wankers should steer clear

Which part of that makes any reference to your good self and where does it mention "idiotic"?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman It sounds as if I am singularly performing the evil act here! Oh yeah, and I PROBABLY know every Pink Floyd album as well as you do, and I was also most-likely not wearing shorts because that's not my thing. Sure, I've never been to a concert of theirs, but I highly doubt that the fact that you're twice my age means that you're automatically a bigger fan of the band than anybody else. The band was my life throughout high school (four years), and not once did I miss the opportunity (and still don't) to go to every live show of The Machine or the Australian Pink Floyd Experience. I am still very-much a fan. I think it's improper to discount somebody's opinion based on their age

It's not so much your age it's just some of your immature misinformed observations that are pretty childish sometimes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman Vicious Tyrant: I completely respect the possibility that some find the voice work very emotional, and to a respectable degree. However, I personally can find much more emotion in other songs that don't have people LITERALLY screaming, whining, and crying in them. I think that the song "When the Tigers Broke Free" in particular is kind of the highlighting of the pros and cons of Mr. Waters' work: On the plus side, it is quite expressive and very easy to catch on to, but I think that negatively, it's highly cliched and to some, it can be just plain annoying.

In your opinion, and you are entitled to air your opinion but I just don't happen to agree with you regarding the Final Cut, that's all

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman This is why I call the album "stupid". Because instead of the MUSIC and the CONSTRUCTION bringing us the emotion, it's Roger's voice, and it isn't particularly good to my ears. Instead, it sounds like the music you'd hear from a crappy 80's romance film. It just sounds overdone and very behind the times. I hear Meddle today and I could be fooled into thinking it was released last week - but The Final Cut has a strict mark in my history books, and it ain't going anywhere. That album just has the characteristics of a record that died the day it was released. I DO appreciate that it was so unlike the other Floyd works, but come on! If Billy Joel were singing this record, it may be different, but Roger Waters was meant to play bass and write music - he ain't no singer.

I'm sure Pink Floyd will take note of your criticisms, rework the Final Cut and bring Billy Joel (excuse me while I puke) in to sing lead vocals.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

I'm sure Pink Floyd will take note of your criticisms, rework the Final Cut and bring Billy Joel (excuse me while I puke) in to sing lead vocals.

I like Billy Joel

And, well, I don't want Pink Floyd to touch the Final Cut (even though Mason points out in his book that he's really not particularly fond of it himself).

 

[grawk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman I like Billy Joel And, well, I don't want Pink Floyd to touch the Final Cut (even though Mason points out in his book that he's really not particularly fond of it himself).

Not surprised, since Rick was fired during the making of it, and it resulted in roger breaking up the band, etc.

 

[clarke68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman ...Roger Waters was meant to play bass and write music - he ain't no singer.

Oh, come on now. "The Post War Dream"? "Run Like Hell"? "Sheep"? "Brain Damage"?

This thread has caused me to go back through most of the old catalog over the last few days, and one of the things I think made Floyd so great back in the day was Waters' & Gilmore's contrasting vocal styles, which they used to great effect on tunes like "Waiting for the Worms". Gilmore shines on the beautiful & melodic material, while Waters has the edge on, well, the edgy & intense.

I can understand, I guess, if you prefer David Gilmore's vocals, but to say Roger Waters "ain't no singer" misses the point. Neither of them is really all that great a singer (in the Robert Plant/Freddie Mercury/Mike Patton sense of the term) but they've used the talent they have to maximum effect, and that's a big part of what makes any rock band great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman the Final Cut (even though Mason points out in his book that he's really not particularly fond of it himself)

Yeah, well...Roger Waters is many things, but one of them is not "easy to work with".

 

[Carbonman]

I've been a serious PF fan since Ummagumma. Even the stuff I don't prefer I can bring myself to listen to all the way through.
Having said that... Anyone that thinks Roger Waters can sing has rocks in their heads. He and Neil Young are among the least musical singers on the planet. What redeems them both is their lyrical and musical talent.
Pink Floyd wouldn't have become the incredible band they were with out ol' Roger, but I won't buy any of his solo albums. Same for Neil Young.

 

[fyrfytrhoges]

heh, another knucklehead descibes people who can appreciate a certain artists vocals with colorful words, this time "rocks in their heads," you know it alls never cease to amaze me. the music forum at this place is becoming filled with elitist brats who dont know when to quit. i realize this one gives "ol rog" some props, but not before slamming us folks who happen to appreciate his performance as a whole instead of picking it apart and dividing it into creativity/musical ability/vocals. i think ive had it with this section of headfi. i believe ill hang out in a music forum where some people are a little less know it all, yet have much more musical knowledge, ala stevehoffman, at least there is intelligent debate there.....

 

[rabidmoose171]

in my ears the division bell sucked.

 

[clarke68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonman Anyone that thinks Roger Waters can sing has rocks in their heads. He and Neil Young are among the least musical singers on the planet.

...sorry but in my mind, Bob Dylan wins the "great songwriter who never should have sang his own songs" award long before Waters or Young.

Since when is it required of a rock singer to be "musical" (and just what does that word mean, anyway?) Ever listen to AC/DC, The Clash, Metallica, Tom Waits, or Nirvana?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonman What redeems them both is their lyrical and musical talent.

So...you think Waters' is redeemed by his bass playing?

Sincerely,

Rockhead

 

[bigshot]

I went to see The Wall at Long Beach. There was a problem with the sound system where there was a noticeable hiss every time they played back music on tape. As the concert started, about a third of it had hiss. By the end when the wall completely blocked the crowd's view of the band, the hiss was constant. I bet they were in their limo and on their way back to their hotel before the concert was even over. I've never felt so cheated by a band in my life... inflatable pigs and giant puppets aren't what I go to a concert to see. I want to see musicians who can play their instruments. Pink Floyd are a bunch of talentless hacks that piece together notes in the studio. They couldn't play a song all the way through without overdubbing if their lives depended on it.

See ya
Steve

 

[Riordan]

isn't it ironic how the hostility thrown around in this thread mirrors the hostility between waters and gilmore? but they finally reunited (for one concert), didn't they? i even saw a photo of them standing side by side, holding each other (or hiding the knives behind their backs, maybe...)

just lighten up a little, some of you

waters is more of a storyteller than a singer, and gilmore is more of a musician than a composer - that's partly where our different preferences come from. no need to put down one in order to elevate the other.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot I went to see The Wall at Long Beach. There was a problem with the sound system where there was a noticeable hiss every time they played back music on tape. As the concert started, about a third of it had hiss. By the end when the wall completely blocked the crowd's view of the band, the hiss was constant. I bet they were in their limo and on their way back to their hotel before the concert was even over. I've never felt so cheated by a band in my life... inflatable pigs and giant puppets aren't what I go to a concert to see. I want to see musicians who can play their instruments. Pink Floyd are a bunch of talentless hacks that piece together notes in the studio. They couldn't play a song all the way through without overdubbing if their lives depended on it. See ya Steve

Rubbish

See Ya