[thelostMIDrange]

.....

 

[thelostMIDrange]

........

 

[Twinster]

Great information and thank you for sharing with us.  I like the simple look approach on the Sony headband. It doesn't look comfy but you confirmed it is so that's all it matters.
Quote:

so, just to add my 2 cents on different woods and their tone affects since the OP was asking........ I've been experimenting like an mental patient with about a dozen different setups regarding wood cups, inner chambers with different end caps, different finishes on the wood etc.......And my conclusions are that the species wood used for cups is a relatively minor variable. I sort of break it down as follows: 70% of the sound is from the driver, 10% on the position of the driver from the ear (flush, recessed etc), 5% from the wood species, 5% the size of the cup (inner chambers air volume), 5% cable and 5% the finish on the wood.  The type of wood used seems to subtly affect the timbre of instruments and attack more than directly affecting e/q although I feel it does that as well......these things become so subtle that alot of apparant difference could be chalked up to the mood I'm in or some other mental variable. I do know I am totally stoked with my setup at this point, so much so that I just sold my beloved hf-2's in favor of DIY magnums because i was able to customize all the above variables directly to my tastes and record collection........

 
 

 

[thelostMIDrange]

..........

 

[thelostMIDrange]

......

 

[JoeDoe]

I know this thread is a little old, but better late then never eh?!
 
Hey Woody fans,
 
This write up is one that has been in the works for a while. Right around the time 7keys started the Great Grado Experiment, I purchased a pair of Cherry cups from him. He messaged me a few weeks later asking how I thought the cherry compared to the black walnut I’d purchased prior. And the maple. And the ebony. Then he suggested that I try to compare ALL of the cups I’ve purchased from him, which now includes some of the gorgeous oak you’ve been seeing on the grado mods thread. So that’s what I’m doing. These notes will also include the B-stock mahogany cups Vibro labs has been selling on eBay and the padauk cups I’ve purchased from fleasbaby.
 
Gear Used:

Non-Retina MacBook Pro > AQ Dragonfly
5.5 gen. iPod > Arrow 4G
 
*Disclaimer* : Not all of the cups have been used on the same model Grados. Nor have they all been the same shape or depth. They have however, all been installed on stock SR60i, SR225i, and MS1i drivers with no extra modifications meant for changing/improving the sound quality. Also, since I know it will come up later, not all of these descriptions were gathered from side-by-side comparisons to a stock model. I did my best however, to give ample time for NTS (new toy syndrome) to wear off and I jotted down sound changes at first listen to see if I still felt the same way after a few weeks. 
 
225i Wood
 
First, the walnut. These were a medium depth lipless cup which were my first purchase from 7keys. Also my first victim for woodying my SR225is. As such, I’ll tell you that the soldering and driver liberation were not the cleanest nor most efficient. However, they ended up working just fine. 
 
The walnut did everything just a little better than the stock housings. The bass quality was the first thing I cued into. It was markedly improved - having a little more weight and texture. Being a drummer myself, I certainly appreciated hearing the size of a kick drum more than hearing a generic bump on 1 and 3. Mids became a little richer than stock. Once again, improvement in texture. Highs convinced me that they were a little more extended and detailed. In AC/DC’s “Back in Black” the hi-hat countoff was as textured as I’ve ever heard. I also found an obvious improvement in the soundstage. This change was the one that made me curious to try other tone woods. The only qualm I’d had with my Grados was the “in-head” sound and the walnut made me realize that this could be improved!
 
More recently, I purchased a pair of shallow ebony cups for some 225is I purchased off of eBay. After liberating the driver, I experienced (and posted) a problem I ran into where I damaged the voice coil leads while de-soldering. Long story short, I received a brand new pair of drivers from Grado for the price of a repair! 
 
The ebony is (I still have them) similar to the walnut in nature. The bass texture is improved, although the weight didn’t change as much as the walnut. The mids haven’t changed enough to convince me that it’s not a matter of NTS. The highs are however, much different than the walnut. There’s space! The stratospheric trumpet articulations on The Buddy Rich Big Band’s “Burning for Buddy” albums are much clearer now! Likewise, the sense of space is greatly improved! I hear much more depth and a notable widening of soundstage. I used to use the 225s almost exclusively for rock-based genres, but the ebony has made them much more friendly to my classical recordings.
 
SR60i Wood - With the exception of maple, all SR60 woodies have been compared side-by-side to a stock model.
 
The maple cups were purchased not long after the walnut. They were a similarly shaped medium cut cup that had a varied grain pattern and slightly shallower opening.
 
Maple. Meh. I agree with AHorseNamedJeff’s thoughts about maple. The bass is slammin’! In some of my old Miles and Coltrane recordings, Ron Carter and Paul Chambers finally get their due. Playing in a jazz trio has made me enjoy feeling as well as hearing the upright and the maple cups certainly catered to that! The mids weren’t anything to write home about. If anything they were muddier. The highs also seemed less clear. The cash register in Pink Floyd’s “Money” barely registered anymore! (Pun intended) The imaging was a little less refined than the stock version. It made me imagine taking a rock band sharing a small stage and forcing them to stand virtually on top of each other. Not impressed with maple’s non-bass capabilities.
 
Oakies! These have been my most recent 7keys purchase. They’re a medium depth cup with large lips and gorgeous tiger grain running across the face of the cup.
 
For me these guys have been a bit of a roller coaster. At first they didn’t blow me away, although I certainly found the shape of the signature a little different. The bass was tighter, mids seemed a little recessed and the treble stayed mostly the same. However, as time has progressed, I’ve changed my opinions. The bass has instead of being tighter, I think it’s been rounded. I think there’s a loss of texture. The pounding drums in Tool’s Parabola are harder to discern. Still fun, just a bit less ‘audiophilic'. I stand by my original thoughts on the midrange. They sound a little recessed, where the guitars on the same song are a little removed. Josh Redman’s sax sounds similar on some of his solo recordings. The treble to me has improved. I don’t think sparkle is appropriate, although the detail has improved. Hi hats, ride cymbals, and violins are much more life-like. Overall I’d say that the oak sort of causes a V-shape in the sound signature.
 
MS1i Wood
 
Cherry was a refreshing improvement to maple. A few weeks after selling both the maple and walnut in one transaction I purchased a pair of the cherries from 7keys. These were a deeper cut than anything I’d purchased previously so I was anxious to hear any sonic changes.
 
Honestly on Day 1, I was not impressed. They didn’t disappoint like maple, nor did they make me regret throwing away the original plastic housings, but they didn’t do anything immediately that made me smile. But I was patient and have since been quite pleased with cherry’s understated sound qualities. The bass reminded me of ebony. Slightly better texture, although not a great difference in weight. Mids also seemed richer than stock, perhaps a little smoother (not that hard to accomplish as I think the mids are the relative weakness of the SR60i anyway). High’s didn’t change enough for me to convince me it wasn’t NTS. Definitely an improvement in imaging with the cherry. I wouldn’t say the venue got deeper, but it certainly widened! Being able to hear where each member of the Los Angeles Guitar Quartet was sitting when they recorded made “Pachelbel’s Loose Canon” a sheer joy!
 
Most recently I bought a few pairs of padauk cups from fleasbaby. These are some beautiful fiery orange and brown deep-cut cups that are a little more rounded in shape.
 
The padauk does the only thing I’d want to the MS1s: better detail. I’m a big fan of the MS1 sound as-is, the only thing I’ve ever found myself wanting is a little more separation. The pad padauk delivers. The bass is still nice and tight, but ample in quantity when needed. In a less-muddy-maple way, the upright bass is once again, alive and well! The midrange seems mostly the same as before. If anything it’s a little more detailed. The treble has more texture without being sibilant. Once again, hi hats, upper range female vocals, and strings have more texture. I can hear when a drummer strikes different surfaces on the same cymbal! With regards to soundstage, it has certainly gained some depth, although width-wise it feels the same. 
 
In conclusion…
 
Walnut: Improvements all around. Better bass quality, richer mids, more detailed treble, better soundstage.
 
Ebony: Bass texture is better, unchanged mids, much more treble sparkle/separation. Also better soundstage.
 
Maple: More bass but at cost of texture, muddier kids and loss of treble detail.
 
Oak: V-shaped. Rounder bass, slightly recessed mids, better treble.
 
Cherry: Ebony-ish bass, richer mids, unchanged treble. Much improved imaging and soundstage.
 
Padauk: Little more oomph in the bass, unchanged mids, better treble space. Deeper soundstage..

 

[7keys]

I know this thread is a little old, but better late then never eh?!


 


Hey Woody fans,


 


This write up is one that has been in the works for a while. Right around the time 7keys started the Great Grado Experiment, I purchased a pair of Cherry cups from him. He messaged me a few weeks later asking how I thought the cherry compared to the black walnut I’d purchased prior. And the maple. And the ebony. Then he suggested that I try to compare ALL of the cups I’ve purchased from him, which now includes some of the gorgeous oak you’ve been seeing on the grado mods thread. So that’s what I’m doing. These notes will also include the B-stock mahogany cups Vibro labs has been selling on eBay and the padauk cups I’ve purchased from fleasbaby.


 


Gear Used:



Non-Retina MacBook Pro > AQ Dragonfly


5.5 gen. iPod > Arrow 4G


 


*Disclaimer* : Not all of the cups have been used on the same model Grados. Nor have they all been the same shape or depth. They have however, all been installed on stock SR60i, SR225i, and MS1i drivers with no extra modifications meant for changing/improving the sound quality. Also, since I know it will come up later, not all of these descriptions were gathered from side-by-side comparisons to a stock model. I did my best however, to give ample time for NTS (new toy syndrome) to wear off and I jotted down sound changes at first listen to see if I still felt the same way after a few weeks. 


 


225i Wood


 


First, the walnut. These were a medium depth lipless cup which were my first purchase from 7keys. Also my first victim for woodying my SR225is. As such, I’ll tell you that the soldering and driver liberation were not the cleanest nor most efficient. However, they ended up working just fine. 


 


The walnut did everything just a little better than the stock housings. The bass quality was the first thing I cued into. It was markedly improved - having a little more weight and texture. Being a drummer myself, I certainly appreciated hearing the size of a kick drum more than hearing a generic bump on 1 and 3. Mids became a little richer than stock. Once again, improvement in texture. Highs convinced me that they were a little more extended and detailed. In AC/DC’s “Back in Black” the hi-hat countoff was as textured as I’ve ever heard. I also found an obvious improvement in the soundstage. This change was the one that made me curious to try other tone woods. The only qualm I’d had with my Grados was the “in-head” sound and the walnut made me realize that this could be improved!


 


More recently, I purchased a pair of shallow ebony cups for some 225is I purchased off of eBay. After liberating the driver, I experienced (and posted) a problem I ran into where I damaged the voice coil leads while de-soldering. Long story short, I received a brand new pair of drivers from Grado for the price of a repair! 


 


The ebony is (I still have them) similar to the walnut in nature. The bass texture is improved, although the weight didn’t change as much as the walnut. The mids haven’t changed enough to convince me that it’s not a matter of NTS. The highs are however, much different than the walnut. There’s space! The stratospheric trumpet articulations on The Buddy Rich Big Band’s “Burning for Buddy” albums are much clearer now! Likewise, the sense of space is greatly improved! I hear much more depth and a notable widening of soundstage. I used to use the 225s almost exclusively for rock-based genres, but the ebony has made them much more friendly to my classical recordings.


 


SR60i Wood - With the exception of maple, all SR60 woodies have been compared side-by-side to a stock model.


 


The maple cups were purchased not long after the walnut. They were a similarly shaped medium cut cup that had a varied grain pattern and slightly shallower opening.


 


Maple. Meh. I agree with AHorseNamedJeff’s thoughts about maple. The bass is slammin’! In some of my old Miles and Coltrane recordings, Ron Carter and Paul Chambers finally get their due. Playing in a jazz trio has made me enjoy feeling as well as hearing the upright and the maple cups certainly catered to that! The mids weren’t anything to write home about. If anything they were muddier. The highs also seemed less clear. The cash register in Pink Floyd’s “Money” barely registered anymore! (Pun intended) The imaging was a little less refined than the stock version. It made me imagine taking a rock band sharing a small stage and forcing them to stand virtually on top of each other. Not impressed with maple’s non-bass capabilities.


 


Oakies! These have been my most recent 7keys purchase. They’re a medium depth cup with large lips and gorgeous tiger grain running across the face of the cup.


 


For me these guys have been a bit of a roller coaster. At first they didn’t blow me away, although I certainly found the shape of the signature a little different. The bass was tighter, mids seemed a little recessed and the treble stayed mostly the same. However, as time has progressed, I’ve changed my opinions. The bass has instead of being tighter, I think it’s been rounded. I think there’s a loss of texture. The pounding drums in Tool’s Parabola are harder to discern. Still fun, just a bit less ‘audiophilic'. I stand by my original thoughts on the midrange. They sound a little recessed, where the guitars on the same song are a little removed. Josh Redman’s sax sounds similar on some of his solo recordings. The treble to me has improved. I don’t think sparkle is appropriate, although the detail has improved. Hi hats, ride cymbals, and violins are much more life-like. Overall I’d say that the oak sort of causes a V-shape in the sound signature.


 


MS1i Wood


 


Cherry was a refreshing improvement to maple. A few weeks after selling both the maple and walnut in one transaction I purchased a pair of the cherries from 7keys. These were a deeper cut than anything I’d purchased previously so I was anxious to hear any sonic changes.


 


Honestly on Day 1, I was not impressed. They didn’t disappoint like maple, nor did they make me regret throwing away the original plastic housings, but they didn’t do anything immediately that made me smile. But I was patient and have since been quite pleased with cherry’s understated sound qualities. The bass reminded me of ebony. Slightly better texture, although not a great difference in weight. Mids also seemed richer than stock, perhaps a little smoother (not that hard to accomplish as I think the mids are the relative weakness of the SR60i anyway). High’s didn’t change enough for me to convince me it wasn’t NTS. Definitely an improvement in imaging with the cherry. I wouldn’t say the venue got deeper, but it certainly widened! Being able to hear where each member of the Los Angeles Guitar Quartet was sitting when they recorded made “Pachelbel’s Loose Canon” a sheer joy!


 


Most recently I bought a few pairs of padauk cups from fleasbaby. These are some beautiful fiery orange and brown deep-cut cups that are a little more rounded in shape.


 


The padauk does the only thing I’d want to the MS1s: better detail. I’m a big fan of the MS1 sound as-is, the only thing I’ve ever found myself wanting is a little more separation. The pad padauk delivers. The bass is still nice and tight, but ample in quantity when needed. In a less-muddy-maple way, the upright bass is once again, alive and well! The midrange seems mostly the same as before. If anything it’s a little more detailed. The treble has more texture without being sibilant. Once again, hi hats, upper range female vocals, and strings have more texture. I can hear when a drummer strikes different surfaces on the same cymbal! With regards to soundstage, it has certainly gained some depth, although width-wise it feels the same. 


 


In conclusion…


 


Walnut: Improvements all around. Better bass quality, richer mids, more detailed treble, better soundstage.


 


Ebony: Bass texture is better, unchanged mids, much more treble sparkle/separation. Also better soundstage.


 


Maple: More bass but at cost of texture, muddier kids and loss of treble detail.


 


Oak: V-shaped. Rounder bass, slightly recessed mids, better treble.


 


Cherry: Ebony-ish bass, richer mids, unchanged treble. Much improved imaging and soundstage.


 


Padauk: Little more oomph in the bass, unchanged mids, better treble space. Deeper soundstage..

 




Great review Joe..

 

[Themilkman46290]

Does anyone know where I can get measurements and scheme on cups, I want to try and make some but need to understand the difference between cups and measurements

 

[7keys]

The first Woodies I made were inspired from this.

https://headfonics.com/grado-diy-how-to-get-a-perfect-woody/