[gefski]

Can anyone comment on the Sophia Princess 274b vs 1950s Brimar 5Z4G?

Looking for any differences and driver tubes that pair better with one over another.

Thankyou

The Sophia and a couple lesser 274Bs start out for me with a pleasant warmth, with detail, yet after a couple days I find the bass (especially strings) to be shallow, with unnatural timbre. So I give up and go to Brimar 5Z4G, Mullard CV378, or SED 5U4G Black Plate (also called 5U3C), and end up staying there for weeks or a month, satisfied day after day. This with my several year old WA6+ and 6FD7s.

 

[barbz127]

The Sophia and a couple lesser 274Bs start out for me with a pleasant warmth, with detail, yet after a couple days I find the bass (especially strings) to be shallow, with unnatural timbre. So I give up and go to Brimar 5Z4G, Mullard CV378, or SED 5U4G Black Plate (also called 5U3C), and end up staying there for weeks or a month, satisfied day after day. This with my several year old WA6+ and 6FD7s.

Thankyou, what driver tubes are you using through this?

 

[gefski]

Thankyou, what driver tubes are you using through this?

6FD7 RCAs, ProComm, etc.

 

[PoSR77]

Just got a WA6. My first full tube amp (I have had hybrids before, one of which, the HeadDirect EF1 I really enjoyed).

Results so far with this are pretty good, but somewhat mixed; some things I like, others not as much as I thought I would. (I've only been listening to it for about an hour and a half however, and it is stock). It is gorgeous, heavy, and solidly constructed. Nothing about the sound signature offends me, however nothing (so far) wows me either (that could easily change however). But it is nice sounding at least, not low-fi for sure. It sounds better than my Cayin iHA 6.

I'm listening with Aryas (I will try my 400i and Sundaras later, but I hardly listen to those anymore).

I know that maybe the basic WA6 might not have the power for the Aryas, but I did use several online headphone power calculators which calculated that the Aryas need only 300 to 500mw which the WA6 has (580mw at 32ohms, the Aryas are 35ohms). So that and the compactness (and price) made me get this instead of the WA6se.

However, boy do I have to turn up that volume dial: to the 1 to 3 position to get a moderate volume (past 3 gets louder than I normally listen), and, at least with music that has a good DR (dynamic range) of 12 to 17, I can turn it up all the way without reaching ear piecing levels (in comparison, my Gilmore Lite Mk2 can get to about 1 or 2 before its way too loud and my Cayin iHA 6 only about 12). I normally listen at the 9 to 11 range like most people. So I'm worried this amp might be underpowered for my Aryas. I know that things besides watts per channel can matter (voltage and current and such).

So is it worth it to even try to tube roll (and I'm very skeptical that can even matter: I've never seen anyone explain how specifically changes in tubes can alter the sound), or should I (sigh) scale up to the se?

Or should I just shut up and enjoy the amp at the 1 to 3 position at which it does sound pretty good? (The Aryas don't sound underpowered or too thin or anything, and they can sound that way on lesser amps, not to mention mere headphone outs).

Another alternative: I've been thinking of purchasing the ADI-2-DAC FS and wonder if its loudness feature would help here.

Thanks for any help, and happy to join the tube world finally!

Edit: Interestingly, I switched the impedance from 0-99 to 100-600 and that increased the volume. Odd since the Aryas have a 35 impedance so I figured that's where it should be set. Now it's about a 1 notch difference (same volume at 1 that used to be at 2 with the lower impedance setting).

 

[housekrl]

Just got a WA6. My first full tube amp (I have had hybrids before, one of which, the HeadDirect EF1 I really enjoyed).

Results so far with this are pretty good, but somewhat mixed; some things I like, others not as much as I thought I would. (I've only been listening to it for about an hour and a half however, and it is stock). It is gorgeous, heavy, and solidly constructed. Nothing about the sound signature offends me, however nothing (so far) wows me either (that could easily change however). But it is nice sounding at least, not low-fi for sure. It sounds better than my Cayin iHA 6.

I'm listening with Aryas (I will try my 400i and Sundaras later, but I hardly listen to those anymore).

I know that maybe the basic WA6 might not have the power for the Aryas, but I did use several online headphone power calculators which calculated that the Aryas need only 300 to 500mw which the WA6 has (580mw at 32ohms, the Aryas are 35ohms). So that and the compactness (and price) made me get this instead of the WA6se.

However, boy do I have to turn up that volume dial: to the 1 to 3 position to get a moderate volume (past 3 gets louder than I normally listen), and, at least with music that has a good DR (dynamic range) of 12 to 17, I can turn it up all the way without reaching ear piecing levels (in comparison, my Gilmore Lite Mk2 can get to about 1 or 2 before its way too loud and my Cayin iHA 6 only about 12). So I'm worried this amp might be underpowered for my Aryas. I know that things besides watts per channel can matter (voltage and current and such).

So is it worth it to even try to tube roll (and I'm very skeptical that can even matter: I've never seen anyone explain how specifically changes in tubes can alter the sound), or should I (sigh) scale up to the se?

Or should I just shut up and enjoy the amp at the 1 to 3 position at which it does sound pretty good? (The Aryas don't sound underpowered or too thin or anything, and they can sound that way on lesser amps, not to mention mere headphone outs).

Another alternative: I've been thinking of purchasing the ADI-2-DAC FS and wonder if its loudness feature would help here.

Thanks for any help, and happy to join the tube world finally!

Congrats on your new amp. Ditch the stock tubes. Get some NOS 6SN7 tubes with adaptors. Get a Brimar 5z4gy rectifier. You will thus have an amazing sounding amp with much higher gain. You shouldn't have to turn the volume past 12 o'clock.
Of course there are many, many more options than what I am suggesting. 6FD7 tubes have higher gain as well and sound pretty good. Much better than stock.
Don't get sucked into buying the Sophia Princess. It's overpriced and the Brimar sounds much better.
The WA6 has great potential, but you have to spend some money to get it there.
Have fun!

 

[PoSR77]

Congrats on your new amp. Ditch the stock tubes. Get some NOS 6SN7 tubes with adaptors. Get a Brimar 5z4gy rectifier. You will thus have an amazing sounding amp with much higher gain. You shouldn't have to turn the volume past 12 o'clock.
Of course there are many, many more options than what I am suggesting. 6FD7 tubes have higher gain as well and sound pretty good. Much better than stock.
Don't get sucked into buying the Sophia Princess. It's overpriced and the Brimar sounds much better.
The WA6 has great potential, but you have to spend some money to get it there.
Have fun!

Thanks for the advice. So different tubes will supply more power? That would be interesting. I wonder why that is.

The more I listen, the more I like this amp. Still can't believe I have to turn it up past 12 to get to moderate listening levels, but again it does sound good once the volume is up, not underpowered. On other amps, with the same headphones (Aryas) I listen from 9 to 11 mostly (12 with really "quiet" recordings).

I've seen the Brimar 5z4gy mentioned often in here. So where would I get adaptors? And what's the best tube source in general?

Thanks and sorry for the questions that must have been asked dozens of times already in here lol.

Edit: I just thought of something, maybe one of my stock tubes is bad? That can result in loss of power right? I know how to roll tubes in and they are all snug and lit up (though the rectifier is only lit at the top; don't know if that's normal), but one could be going anyway maybe. I think I might email Wooaudio and see what they say. I'd hate it if something was wrong with the amp.

2nd Edit: Just turned off the WA6 and removed and reinserted all the tubes. I shook each one and the rectifier rattled a bit so something is loose. It's quite possible it was damaged during shipping (I did notice that the box had a dent and tear in it and the plastic cover was torn up) and thus may be not putting out full power. Shutting down the amp and will contact Wooaudio and/or just order a new rectifier. I hope this is the reason for my lack of power.

 

[housekrl]

Thanks for the advice. So different tubes will supply more power? That would be interesting. I wonder why that is.

The more I listen, the more I like this amp. Still can't believe I have to turn it up past 12 to get to moderate listening levels, but again it does sound good once the volume is up, not underpowered. On other amps, with the same headphones (Aryas) I listen from 9 to 11 mostly (12 with really "quiet" recordings).

I've seen the Brimar 5z4gy mentioned often in here. So where would I get adaptors? And what's the best tube source in general?

Thanks and sorry for the questions that must have been asked dozens of times already in here lol.

Edit: I just thought of something, maybe one of my stock tubes is bad? That can result in loss of power right? I know how to roll tubes in and they are all snug and lit up (though the rectifier is only lit at the top; don't know if that's normal), but one could be going anyway maybe. I think I might email Wooaudio and see what they say. I'd hate it if something was wrong with the amp.

2nd Edit: Just turned off the WA6 and removed and reinserted all the tubes. I shook each one and the rectifier rattled a bit so something is loose. It's quite possible it was damaged during shipping (I did notice that the box had a dent and tear in it and the plastic cover was torn up) and thus may be not putting out full power. Shutting down the amp and will contact Wooaudio and/or just order a new rectifier. I hope this is the reason for my lack of power.

Yes, different tubes supply more power. The stock tubes produce 580 mW into 32 ohms.
The Brimar rectifier produces quite a bit more. I listen to power hungry planars on my WA6 and I never turn the volume up past half way.
6fd7 Driver tubes have high gain but they sound sterile and clinical to me. IMHO
NOS 6SN7 tubes have higher gain as well and sound much more dynamic, fuller, and balanced. You can buy the adaptors from Woo or ebay.
I don't think you have a bad tube. The stock tubes just do not produce enough power. The WA6 amp is an all tube design, so your choice of tubes will affect the sound GREATLY. Thats part of the fun, but can cost you.
Edit: One of my rectifiers rattles as well but works fine.

 

[housekrl]

@PoSR77 I forgot to ask if you have a 1st Gen or 2nd Gen WA6.
If you have a 2nd Gen then it takes 13 volt driver tubes instead of 6 volt.
13sn7, 13fd7, 13de7, ect. Very important

 

[gefski]

Just got a WA6. My first full tube amp (I have had hybrids before, one of which, the HeadDirect EF1 I really enjoyed).

Results so far with this are pretty good, but somewhat mixed; some things I like, others not as much as I thought I would. (I've only been listening to it for about an hour and a half however, and it is stock). It is gorgeous, heavy, and solidly constructed. Nothing about the sound signature offends me, however nothing (so far) wows me either (that could easily change however). But it is nice sounding at least, not low-fi for sure. It sounds better than my Cayin iHA 6.

I'm listening with Aryas (I will try my 400i and Sundaras later, but I hardly listen to those anymore).

I know that maybe the basic WA6 might not have the power for the Aryas, but I did use several online headphone power calculators which calculated that the Aryas need only 300 to 500mw which the WA6 has (580mw at 32ohms, the Aryas are 35ohms). So that and the compactness (and price) made me get this instead of the WA6se.

However, boy do I have to turn up that volume dial: to the 1 to 3 position to get a moderate volume (past 3 gets louder than I normally listen), and, at least with music that has a good DR (dynamic range) of 12 to 17, I can turn it up all the way without reaching ear piecing levels (in comparison, my Gilmore Lite Mk2 can get to about 1 or 2 before its way too loud and my Cayin iHA 6 only about 12). I normally listen at the 9 to 11 range like most people. So I'm worried this amp might be underpowered for my Aryas. I know that things besides watts per channel can matter (voltage and current and such).

So is it worth it to even try to tube roll (and I'm very skeptical that can even matter: I've never seen anyone explain how specifically changes in tubes can alter the sound), or should I (sigh) scale up to the se?

Or should I just shut up and enjoy the amp at the 1 to 3 position at which it does sound pretty good? (The Aryas don't sound underpowered or too thin or anything, and they can sound that way on lesser amps, not to mention mere headphone outs).

Another alternative: I've been thinking of purchasing the ADI-2-DAC FS and wonder if its loudness feature would help here.

Thanks for any help, and happy to join the tube world finally!

Edit: Interestingly, I switched the impedance from 0-99 to 100-600 and that increased the volume. Odd since the Aryas have a 35 impedance so I figured that's where it should be set. Now it's about a 1 notch difference (same volume at 1 that used to be at 2 with the lower impedance setting).

Checking the stated sensitivity of the Arya, 90db, would be the first clue that the WA6 will be ”reaching” to drive it well. That’s among the lower sensitivity headphones I’m aware of. At meets I’ve plugged most cans into my WA6+ with excellent results. The big exception was the Abyss AB-1266 (47 ohm, 88db/mw) which it was completely inadequate for. Keep in mind that every 3db drop in sensitivity requires a doubling of amplifier power as a general guideline.

 

[Law87]

Jesus Christ I'm listening to my WA6-se on my HE1000se, seriously having second thought of trading this amp....

 

[471724]

Checking the stated sensitivity of the Arya, 90db, would be the first clue that the WA6 will be ”reaching” to drive it well. That’s among the lower sensitivity headphones I’m aware of. At meets I’ve plugged most cans into my WA6+ with excellent results. The big exception was the Abyss AB-1266 (47 ohm, 88db/mw) which it was completely inadequate for. Keep in mind that every 3db drop in sensitivity requires a doubling of amplifier power as a general guideline.

I don't doubt your experience, but I find it hard to understand especially from the engineering perspective. The Abyss theoretically should be OK with the WA6, since the 88 dB sensitivity means the Abyss will produce 110 dB at 158 mW input (2.7 Vrms, 58 mArms). That's extremely loud, at a power level into 47 ohms that the WA6 should be capable of, since it is specified as capable of 500 mW into 47 ohms at low distortion. I had an Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC for a while, and my WA6SE (with 6FD7s) according to the specs puts out more than 1500 mW before appreciable distortion, and was able to drive it well to fairly loud levels. It did get into trouble however at very high levels with a lot of bass energy. If some factor is missing in this evaluation, what is it?

 

[gefski]

I don't doubt your experience, but I find it hard to understand especially from the engineering perspective. The Abyss theoretically should be OK with the WA6, since the 88 dB sensitivity means the Abyss will produce 110 dB at 158 mW input (2.7 Vrms, 58 mArms). That's extremely loud, at a power level into 47 ohms that the WA6 should be capable of, since it is specified as capable of 500 mW into 47 ohms at low distortion. I had an Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC for a while, and my WA6SE (with 6FD7s) according to the specs puts out more than 1500 mW before appreciable distortion, and was able to drive it well to fairly loud levels. It did get into trouble however at very high levels with a lot of bass energy. If some factor is missing in this evaluation, what is it?

Nothing’s missing. Just a comment that might or might not be helpful to @PoSR77‘s concerns.

 

[PoSR77]

Hello all.

Sorry for the late reply. I spent much of the weekend with a migraine.

I received a reply from Woo today. Without going into details I'll just say that I'm considering several solutions to my issues and the problem is probably not a bad or failing tube.

Thanks to everyone for their input and I'll update in detail what I decided on, and why, after I take some time to explore different options.


Update: In discussions with Jack, who has asserted the tube is not bad/failing nor is the amp faulty, according to him the WA6 simply needs to be set that high on the volume knob (the 1 to 3 setting) in order to attain the moderate volume I want with harder to drive cans.

I'd be less inclined to believe him (or any other seller) if I did not try a test myself...

I have the CAYIN iHA-6 amp, which as I'm using it (single ended low impedance out with high current) puts out 1.1 watts at 32 ohms. It has a gain button that can be switched on or off. So I switched it off, and yep, the volume at my normal listening position (9 to 11) was as quiet as the WA6 is at that setting. But when I turned it up to the 1 to 3 position, it was had sufficient volume and was powerful, just as the WA6 is at that position.

My Gilmore Lite Mk2 has a 7.5x gain that can't be switched on or off. So it is always powerful at the 9 to 11 position. Most amps I have had, for headphones or speakers, also only need to be set at the 9 to 11 position for my preferred moderate to moderate loud volume due to some built in gain or other variables I suppose.

So I guess this is what threw me off.

According to Jack, the 13EM7 tubes will increase the gain a bit, so I'm going to try those and I need to find adapters for them (hopefully for much less than they are sold on the Woo site). And a different rectifier will have little to no effect on the gain, so I'm going to look for the most aesthetically pleasing one which I guess is the Sophia Princess.

However, I have been enjoying the WA6 stock very much (which is good, because besides some change in gain, I don't think tubes will alter the sound signature at all). It's competing with my Gilmore Lite Mk2 as best amp to pair with my Arya's. My main complaints are that it's a bit soft on transients, with not as much impact or dynamics as the Mk2; it's kind of a slower or more laid back amp, but I think vocals are better on the WA6 and it has a fuller sound which makes it better for rock/metal in that respect. I have to do more listening and comparisons to get a grip on the positives and negatives of both amps.

 

[barbz127]

Would anyone know if theres any difference between the Brimar 5z4g and the ANM 5z4g

Thankyou

 

[davehg]

And a different rectifier will have little to no effect on the gain, so I'm going to look for the most aesthetically pleasing one which I guess is the Sophia Princess.

However, I have been enjoying the WA6 stock very much (which is good, because besides some change in gain, I don't think tubes will alter the sound signature at all). .

If you read this thread -all 225 pages - and conclude that tube changes won’t make a difference without actually trying to see if they do, I don’t think you’ll get what you are looking for with this amp.

I owned the 6SE, and now own the WA22 and WA5. Every single tube changed the sound except for the 6080 tubes in the WA22. Some were slight, but noticeable, others were massive differences - like changing the sonic character using tone controls. I’ve owned over a dozen tube amps in the last ten years, exotic ones like AirTight and VAC and some standard CJ and ARC amps among others. Woo amps seem to be the most impacted by tube changes.

The driver tubes have the most impact IMHO especially the 6SN7s, but I was surprised how much the rectifier changed the sonic signature. the Sophia was a noticeable improvement over the stock 5AR4 but the Brimar sounded every bit as good as the Sophia at a much bigger price discount - you could buy 3-4 Brimars for the cost of one Sophia 274. I run the Brimar on my WA22 and the Sophia on my WA5 because it looks prettier.

Take the collective wisdom here and swap a few tubes before you decide what makes a difference or not.