[Law87]

I was just referring to directly vs indirectly heated. But, having said that, the response you got from WA seems odd.

so just want to make it clear, there are no additional adapter required for indirect heated tube, with the exception of the 596 tube.

 

[WooAudio]

so just want to make it clear, there are no additional adapter required

Correct. The tube chart tells it all.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/edit#gid=0

 

[HiFiGuy528]

so...this is the response from Woo Audio Rep.

I dont like the way they answer that second half of the question, great way to deny claims if you are still under warranty.

Factory warranty covers against manufacturing defects. Experimenting with tubes that weren't supplied with the amplifier or was purchased from a third-party is not part of the warranty coverage. This is industry standard.

 

[bfreedma]

Factory warranty covers against manufacturing defects. Experimenting with tubes that weren't supplied with the amplifier or was purchased from a third-party is not part of the warranty coverage. This is industry standard.

Are you stating that purchasing tubes from a vendor other than Woo Audio that are on the approved tube list for an amp can invalidate the warranty? If so, that is certainly not industry standard.

It would also be odd since many of the tubes on the approved list are not available on your web site. Hopefully I'm misunderstanding your statement.

 

[Law87]

Factory warranty covers against manufacturing defects. Experimenting with tubes that weren't supplied with the amplifier or was purchased from a third-party is not part of the warranty coverage. This is industry standard.

which industry?

If I purchase a car, change my oil, I dont have to use Mobile 1, as long as it is within spec I can use Valvoline, RP or any other brand. Seems like you are conforming to a standard which not only is wrong but makes it so the company can jack up the prices of tubes as they see fit.

 

[Spareribs]

If you’re not sure what types of tubes to use, you can send a message to Woo Audio and ask.

Or you can even ask other people on tube amp forums. From my experience, the best tube amp experts are on the guitar forums. A lot of the knowledge can be applied to home stereo amps despite the difference in amp designs.

 

[bfreedma]

If you’re not sure what types of tubes to use, you can send a message to Woo Audio and ask.

Or you can even ask other people on tube amp forums.

I don't think it's a question of what type of tubes to use, but rather the post from Woo Audio's rep appearing to state that tubes not purchased directly from Woo Audio void the warranty, even if they are listed on the comparability chart. I'm looking for clarification, as nothing I can find within the Woo Audio warranty states that.

From the FAQ on the website - while they recommend their own tubes, there is no language that states tubes on the list linked to purchased from other vendors would void the warranty. In fact, it tacitly confirms 3rd party tubes are acceptable by suggesting that anyone with questions email Woo Audio - I certainly wouldn't need to email them if I was purchasing tubes from their site.

"
18: What tubes should I buy what are the compatible tubes I can use?

The tubes we sell are hand selected to be the best ones available. We test every tube to ensure they meet our strict standards before they are offered to our customers and are backed by a minimum of 30-day warranty. You can buy from us with confidence.

See our tubes compatible chart here (link). Email us whenever in doubt. In general, you are looking for tubes with the same model number. However, there are many different models number can be substitute directly.

Some tubes have two different types of numbers on them. For instance, a 12AU7A that also has ECC82 printed on the tube. The ECC82 is the European numbering system and the 12AU7A is the US system. There are quite a few tubes that have both numbers printed on them, but many will only have one or the other number. They are the same tubes, no matter what numbering system is used.

6922=E88CC=6DJ8, 6080=6AS7, 12AU7=ECC82, 12AX7=ECC83, 5AR4=GZ34

Note: Compatible does not mean we recommend. Our selection of upgrade tubes are listed within the products page."

 

[HiFiGuy528]

To clarify, there are many variations in quality of tubes sold on the internet. The chart is a reference to compatible tube models but that does not mean we recommend every tube on the list.

We've carefully chosen the type of tube(s) to supply with each amplifier based on their performance, build quality, and reliability. The upgrade tubes we sell are also carefully chosen to meet or exceed all three requirements. They are essential to a good experience for our customers.

Again, factory warranty is to cover manufacturing defects, not damage caused by user experimentations. This is industry standard. e.g. if your phone blows up and burned down your home because you used a cheaper third-party charger instead of the expensive OEM, you are likely not going to be covered by the manufacturer of the phone.

 

[bfreedma]

To clarify, there are many variations in quality of tubes sold on the internet. The chart is a reference to compatible tube models but that does not mean we recommend every tube on the list.

We've carefully chosen the type of tube(s) to supply with each amplifier based on their performance, build quality, and reliability. The upgrade tubes we sell are also carefully chosen to meet or exceed all three requirements. They are essential to a good experience for our customers.

Again, factory warranty is to cover manufacturing defects, not damage caused by user experimentations. This is industry standard. e.g. if your phone blows up and burned down your home because you used a cheaper third-party charger instead of the expensive OEM, you are likely not going to be covered by the manufacturer of the phone.

I understand all of the above, but would like a direct answer on the warranty question. Does using a tube listed on the compatibility chart acquired from a source other than Woo Audio void the warranty? If the answer to the question is “Yes”, can you point me to the information on the website or in the user manual for my WA6-SE where that is stated?

I’m sorry if this appears to be confrontational or pedantic, but it’s important to get a clear Yes/No answer on this, both for myself and for other current and potential owners of Woo Audio products.

I’m not sure the phone charger example is relevant without context. If the phone manufacturer provides a list of compatible chargers, then there is a reasonable expectation that the charger works within the operational parameters of the phone’s battery and charging hardware/software and would not void the phone’s warranty if used. If I use a charger not on the compatibility list, then of course the warranty is voided.

 

[VandyMan]

If you send your WA6 SE in for a warranty repair, there is no way that Woo will even know you used other tubes, unless you tell them. You don't even need to be untruthful because they will not even ask about it; unless the amp clearly has damage due to faulty tubes.

 

[bfreedma]

If you send your WA6 SE in for a warranty repair, there is no way that Woo will even know you used other tubes unless you tell them. You don't even need to be untruthful because it is unlikely they will even ask about it unless the amp has damage due to faulty tubes.

Theoretically yes, but since many of us post about the tubes we use in our Woo amps, it would be fairly simple for the service department to search for that info and cross reference sales.

I’m just trying to get specifics on the warranty policy as I suspect I’m not the only owner who assumes that if a tube is on the compatibility list published by the manufacturer, purchasing one from sources other than Woo would not void the warranty. A simple Yes/No response is all I’m looking for.

 

[VandyMan]

Theoretically yes, but since many of us post about the tubes we use in our Woo amps, it would be fairly simple for the service department to search for that info and cross reference sales.

I’m just trying to get specifics on the warranty policy as I suspect I’m not the only owner who assumes that if a tube is on the compatibility list published by the manufacturer, purchasing one from sources other than Woo would not void the warranty. A simple Yes/No response is all I’m looking for.

Fair enough, but I think you are making a big deal out of nothing. EVERYONE eventually tube rolls their WA6. Woo is not going to search Head-Fi to see if you used other tubes. That would be the end of Woo Audio. The WA 6 SE has been on the market for a long time. Just ask here... has anyone had Woo turn them down for a repair inside the warranty period?

 

[HiFiGuy528]

@bfreedma

There are many tube sellers on the internet (new and used tubes) so we cannot blanketly say you can buy from anyone and we'll fix the amp for free if a "compatible" tube caused damage to it.

Again, the warranty is against manufacturing defects. That said, in most cases we have taken care of the customer. In fact, our warranty is transferable from the original purchaser. I have worked for Woo for over 4 yrs. and we have not turned away a single customer when they need product support or repair.

 

[Law87]

@bfreedma

There are many tube sellers on the internet (new and used tubes) so we cannot blanketly say you can buy from anyone and we'll fix the amp for free if a "compatible" tube caused damage to it.

Again, the warranty is against manufacturing defects. That said, in most cases we have taken care of the customer. In fact, our warranty is transferable from the original purchaser. I have worked for Woo for over 4 yrs. and we have not turned away a single customer when they need product support or repair.

lets clarified that, you have not turn away from CHARGING for a repair. A dealership wont turn me away if they make thousands on repairs either, thats how they make most of their money.

 

[bfreedma]

@bfreedma

There are many tube sellers on the internet (new and used tubes) so we cannot blanketly say you can buy from anyone and we'll fix the amp for free if a "compatible" tube caused damage to it.

Again, the warranty is against manufacturing defects. That said, in most cases we have taken care of the customer. In fact, our warranty is transferable from the original purchaser. I have worked for Woo for over 4 yrs. and we have not turned away a single customer when they need product support or repair.

I appreciate the response, but from a warranty perspective, clarity is vital. Based on your responses, it appears that using a compatible tube purchased from anyone other than Woo voids the warranty.

That’s not to suggest that you haven’t taken care of owners, but from a customer expectation perspective, Woo should make this clear in the product manual, compatibility chart and web site FAQ. I think it’s a fair position for Woo to take that if the user is responsible for using good quality tubes, but given the publication of the compatibility chart, I assumed that within reason, using a tube listed wasn’t going to impact the warranty. Of course, if I buy a tube with a leg missing or some other obvious defect and install it, I wouldn’t expect Woo to cover that.