Which of this choices would give me the most neutral sound.
Jun 30, 2010 at 3:19 PM Post #46 of 62
^ Now while I agree that FOTM does indeed mean something new which is what the SM3 is since it is fairly new but that poster obviously did not mean it in that way given all his posts attacking the SM3 for no real reason.
 
Jun 30, 2010 at 3:24 PM Post #47 of 62


Quote:
I am just saying, Ortofons cost more than SE530's, or the TF.10... Well if you were to buy online at least. And the SE530's are pretty neutral.


I like my SE530's but they are anything BUT neutral.
 
To me, the most neutral and musical sounding IEM currently available is the DBA-02. As a bonus, it's rather affordable. If the DBA had been branded by another company, they would be selling for $400 or more.
 
Jun 30, 2010 at 4:16 PM Post #48 of 62


Quote:
^ Now while I agree that FOTM does indeed mean something new which is what the SM3 is since it is fairly new but that poster obviously did not mean it in that way given all his posts attacking the SM3 for no real reason.


totally agree, just its a pet peeve if any one takes being FOTM as in itself being a negative
 
Jun 30, 2010 at 7:38 PM Post #49 of 62


Quote:
I like my SE530's but they are anything BUT neutral.
 
To me, the most neutral and musical sounding IEM currently available is the DBA-02. As a bonus, it's rather affordable. If the DBA had been branded by another company, they would be selling for $400 or more.


I did not know that, I just read a couple reviews and I must have mis-read them.
 
Jun 30, 2010 at 7:40 PM Post #50 of 62
Maybe you read the SE535 which I read was supposed to be pretty neutral. The DBA 02 is a neutral phone but the problem is lack of availability.
 
Jul 1, 2010 at 3:13 AM Post #51 of 62

 
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Quote:

Well, I didn't feel like the treble is at all emphasized the UM3X. In fact, I felt that it was a bit recessed. I don't think bass is emphasized either - maybe just a little.


Yes and no.  Now it does depend on your personal ears.  For how I hear and through frequency response testing I've done with a lot of the earphones I've owned, The UM3X comes across largely well balanced but with maybe a dominant yet even bass signature and a specific treble presentation.  Now frequency responses within a few dB is casually flat enough where we don't notice it.  If you have a 10dB peak somewhere it's quite obvious.  If you have a few dB bump or dip over an area, there can be generalized perceptions where the earphone is a little bright, warm, or whatever.
 
For reference, here's a comparison graph I've done of a slew of recent earphones I've used.  Each was done by EQing each earphone at a medium listening volume using a pink noise test track.  With the pink noise, I EQed each earphone to what I perceive as flat.  It's something I've done for a while and have generally liked the results.  It's a good tool for figuring out the quirks of an earphone too.  Some have a peculiar sound, and EQing shows you why.
 

 
Now this is how my ears hear these earphones.  My perception is different from others, and perception will vary by volume, how good your ears are, and even how experienced you are with picking up smaller variations.  At the very least, this is a good indicator of how some of these products relate to each other.  The dips for the Custom 3 and UM3X seem to be a crossover choice and gapping over the crossover range.  Now this isn't an exact science.  Unfortunately our ears change over time and our perceptions adjust.  An example of this is an older graph I made a good half year back.
 

 
It's pretty obvious the perceptions are a little bit different.  The older graph certainly had a milder perception of bass, but I was also mainly using bass heavy earphones.  I did EQ this older set a little more coarsely.  I was also aware of the midrange dip in the UM3X, but I ignored it at the time.  I was really doing a quick comparison.  I went through the EQing a number of times, but I didn't try to EQ in great detail.  In the more recent testing, I was using a lot of bass light earphones, so any bass heavy product would certainly appear bass strong.  I also did EQ in greater detail and made extra effort to shape the EQ appropriately for the earphone.  It's not always a simple parabolic curve.  In both of these test groups I owned all the earphones at the same time or at least a good portion of the test group and the other portion very soon after and used most of these back to back during testing, so I never had any specific favorability.  I will reiterate that variation within a few dB isn't a big deal from a perceivable perspective.  It's the big peaks or valleys that create that interesting sound signature and coloration.
 
It may also become obvious why I say earphones like the RE252 and MTPG are very flat.  The SE530 is pretty flat, but the bass just rolls off way early.  Upper end treble is well extended but does sound slightly recessed (crossover phase offset perhaps or some side effect of the time domain).  My favorites in terms of balance and working well for a wide variety of music have been the RE252 and MTPG, but the Eterna, Custom 3, Triple.Fi 10, and CK10 are great options that can be smoothed out without significant hassle.  I've liked the UM3X too, one of my favorite and very detailed and revealing earphones, and it does come across well balanced.  Even though some of these come across well balanced, there is some coloration associated with their gearing.  It may not be obvious until you do start EQing and realize how it sounds flattened out.  Then you step back and realize how colored the sound really is in the first place.
 
Jul 1, 2010 at 3:23 AM Post #53 of 62
Thanks mvw2! I love to see some graphs in these kinds of threads, even if they are based on your personal experience rather than measured data.
 
Jul 1, 2010 at 3:26 AM Post #54 of 62
Nice graphs there. Now this is quite revealing, telling us how one person hears them, and by comparing it with the sound sig of different earphones, giving us a general impression of how those earphones should sound.
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 1:32 AM Post #55 of 62
Well not really.  It mostly gives just the sensitivity which is only one part of the sound signature.  Graphs alone don't describe how the earphone presents the sound.  It doesn't say anything for dynamics, attack, thickness of note, sound stage locational cues, depth, separation, etc.  Graphs like the above are simply a hint, but is a good first step in figuring out how one earphone might compare in a macro sense to another.  If we don't want a bass heavy earphone, we avoid such earphones.  If we find strong treble a little harsh, we might find one with a milder top end.  Even when the graphs of one earphone to another may only be 1 or 2 dB off, the sound signature might be vastly different.  In my own searches I have typically owned a slew of earphones at once and directly compared and contrasted them against each other.  I have typically spent a month or more going back and forth between a number of products, playing the same song on each one after another.  Any reviews or comparisons I've done have included a lot of subjective comments of my own perception about things like dynamic range, attack, thickness of note, sound stage size, separation, depth, etc.  A lot of this has to accompany things like the graphs above just to create a more holistic sense of a product.  While subjective information is still biased to the individual, the information can still be comparative when done as a group of products.  Many of the finder details of a product are not perceived until after you hear something different.  For example, I'm a big fan of the Triple.Fi 10, although I could say that it come across in many ways ordinary.  Many people have been underwhelmed or disappointed by the earphone.  Some call it boring.  I also was on the sidelines about the earphone until I compared it against others.  I owned my Triple.Fi 10 for half a year before I eventually sold it and compared it against everything I graphed above.  I can say that it is one of the better earphones out there not because it does anything particularly amazing but rather that it is so well refined and largely capable.  It has qualities that are not perceived until you step to something else and then back to it again.  There are a number of earphones out there like this.  There are a number of earphones hard to describe alone.  The variations of presentation of these earphones are some complex that it is even hard to describe any in good detail and thoroughly.  It is hard to describe any of the characteristics on an appropriate scale until one experiences and wide range of scale in the first place.  Graphs are neat, but they say so little.
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 3:52 AM Post #57 of 62
Anyway I will be leaning more towards the IE 8 , UM3X and Ortofon  e-Q7.
The Triple. Fi looks REALLY big , and it would probably stick out of my ears like a flashing advert.
I would look for the DBA 02 around Jaben , if I can find it there..
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 4:07 AM Post #58 of 62
Erm, if it's neutrality that you want, I would not recommend the IE8. It's more focused on the low end of things. It sounds pretty good, but the sound signature doesn't agree with my ears.
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 4:36 AM Post #59 of 62
Quote:
Anyway I will be leaning more towards the IE 8 , UM3X and Ortofon  e-Q7.
The Triple. Fi looks REALLY big , and it would probably stick out of my ears like a flashing advert.
I would look for the DBA 02 around Jaben , if I can find it there..


I don't think Jaben sells Fischer Audio stuffs.
 

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