[rhythmdevils]

yeah but the DT-880 just seem more detailed because of the treble emphasis.  The HD600 has plenty of treble, there are warmer headphones out there that don't have that slightly diffused tone I hear, so I think it's something else.  They're still awesome headphones though esp well amped and I think that's a much smaller flaw then the bigger problems that most other headphones have to my ears including the K701 and DT880.
 
But as for the OP, unless you think your current phones are too bright, I can't see you liking an HD650.  I would agree with Uncle Eirik about getting the HD600 because it strikes a more middle ground that won't be as alarming and they're also easier to amp. 

 

[pp312]

Actually listener fatigue is a good test of headphones. Music itself isn't fatiguing, at least acoustic music isn't, so if the headphone's fatiguing
it's usually a sign something's wrong. Grados are what they are, and please a lot of people (including the people at "What Hi-Fi" apparently), but they have nothing to do with replicating the sound of live music.
 
 
Quote:

I upgraded from SR80i to HD 650 and although I can appreciate both, the Sennheisers sound more like what real music should, to my ear. I get zero fatigue whereas the Grados were hard to endure for long periods.

 

 

[maverickronin]

'Phones like the DT880s and K701 just have a peak in their treble response that gives a false impression of detail.
 
A person will hear something with one of those 'phones that they won't hear from something with a flat treble response and assume its because the treble heavy 'phone is more detailed when in fact they simply didn't notice it in the treble neutral 'phone because its just not prominent in the mix, not because it just not there on the treble neutral 'phone

 

[Kevin Brown]

Quote:

'Phones like the DT880s and K701 just have a peak in their treble response that gives a false impression of detail.
 
A person will hear something with one of those 'phones that they won't hear from something with a flat treble response and assume its because the treble heavy 'phone is more detailed when in fact they simply didn't notice it in the treble neutral 'phone because its just not prominent in the mix, not because it just not there on the treble neutral 'phone

Exactly how I think about it.  Artificially created "detail".
 
But the good thing is, as soon as someone here says "sparkle", I know to stay far, far away.
 

 

 

[metrathon]

how do i delete this ???

 

[metrathon]

 
Quote:

Quote:

Forget all the rest. You are begging for a Sennheiser HD650, even if you don't know it yet. Delay no further: seek out the cheapest price on Ebay.

X2 The two headphones you have are some of the brightest available. You may as well get one of the darkest and most relaxing available just for the experience. It could be highly educational even if it happens not to be your cup of tea.

X3
X4
X5
 

 

[pp312]

Quote:

'Phones like the DT880s and K701 just have a peak in their treble response that gives a false impression of detail.
 
A person will hear something with one of those 'phones that they won't hear from something with a flat treble response and assume its because the treble heavy 'phone is more detailed when in fact they simply didn't notice it in the treble neutral 'phone because its just not prominent in the mix, not because it just not there on the treble neutral 'phone

Exactly. As I've said several times, you can duplicate the sound of a DT880 with an HD650 by turning the treble up on an integrated amp to around +8db at 10khz (check the FR graphs), and you'll start hearing all sorts of treble detail in the 650 that you never heard before.
But why would you want to do that unless you're a very unsophisticated listener who thinks screaming highs and flatulent bass is "hi-fi"?  
 
I'm sure no one at Head-fi would want that sort of sound.

 

[rhythmdevils]

ALL RECORDINGS ARE HARSH AND PAINFULLY BRIGHT, SO IF THE HEADPHONES DON'T REPRODUCE THAT THEN THEY ARE ROLLED OFF AND RECESSED AND FORGIVING AND FOR PANSYS WHO CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!
 

 

[Kevin Brown]

Quote:

ALL RECORDINGS ARE HARSH AND PAINFULLY BRIGHT, SO IF THE HEADPHONES DON'T REPRODUCE THAT THEN THEY ARE ROLLED OFF AND RECESSED AND FORGIVING AND FOR PANSYS WHO CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!
 

Not the CDs I listen to. 

 

[rhythmdevils]

I was kidding hence the rolleyes!  But I do read that kind of thing being said a lot and I really disagree. 

 

[pp312]

Quote:

I was kidding hence the rolleyes!  But I do read that kind of thing being said a lot and I really disagree. 

Well, it tells you the kind of phones the posters listen to.
 
What inexperienced listeners don't realize is that the less accurate/neutral a can is, the more variable will be the results on different CDs. People think they want phones with boosted bass and treble, but living with such a phone over a long period is frustratingly variable, if not painful. The flatter a phone's FR, the more predictable the results from a variety of recordings and the less listener fatigue in the long run.  It's one of those instances where what people think they want is actually the very worst thing for them.
 
Conversely, phones that people think are boring at first listen only show their greatness with familiarity, but people won't persevere and instead move on to lesser, more initially impressive phones. Frankly, whatever people THINK they want, long-term satisfaction only comes with low listener fatigue over a range of recordings, and that is only achieved with low colouration, relatively neutral phones. With 50 years to work that out I reckon I know what I'm talking about.
 

 

[Kevin Brown]

Both of you are dead on.
 
A lot of times headphones with boosted lows and highs might sound initially "exciting" and "different" than more neutral and laid back cans, but over time it becomes a chore to listen to headphones like that.
 
And personally, I've found that a lot of later/newer remastered CDs themselves have boosted lows and/or highs vs earlier releases, so the problem then becomes compounded.  And then add the brickwalling, limiting, and compression of newer CDs on top of that, and you can have some really fatigued ears.
 
Give me more neutral and laid back headphones, and older, better done CD masterings, and I'm a happer camper !!

 

[Vault101]

Denons are not bright, they sound very neutural to me.

 

[pp312]

 =283] Depends what you're used to. Haven't heard the 5000/7000, but the D2000 definitely has a treble peak.
 
 
Ignore that FR graph above. It's a ghost in the machine which I can't get rid of. In fact, I'm having a lot of trouble posting to this site without weird things happening, like the cursor refusing to move, nothing appearing in the box when I try to quote and weird things getting into the post that don't appear at the Edit stage. Is this forum haunted?
 
 

 

[Yuceka]

I've owned Grados, Sennheiser HD555 and HD 650, but sold all of them. Now I have Denon D7000 and K 701. I am trying to get used to the sound signature of K 701 and will decide later if I want to keep it or not. But one thing about the HD650... They are just... dull and boring... No one should say they are neutral because they are certainly not... Grados are too bright for my taste, that's for sure and as I am listening to Bach's Cantatas through K 701 right now, I can see what people are saying about the treble peak... But I remember listening to this same Cantata with HD650 and it was quite uninvolving. I've read the entire thread and with all honesty whatever rhythmdevils said have been dead on! So my 2 cents to the OP's question: Listen to what rhythmdevils says