[KB24]

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Interesting post with a lot of good insight.  Thank you sir.   While we are on topic, can you comment on the bass on the DT880 Pro 600ohm vs. the DT770 Pro 80ohm cans?  I absolutely hated the DT770s due to their bloated bass and overall veil [sig in rig].


 

Since the 880 600 ohms are semi-open, the bass is naturally not going to be as heavy as the closed 770 600 ohms. The 880 has good bass (significantly better than the K702). The 880 are an all-around good can with amazing body, great vocals, and are as crisp as they can get without inducing sibilance. The 770 600 ohms are a bit boomy, but I like it because they do not sacrifice any other part of the spectrum to achieve such tight bass. The mids are not recessed, and the highs can get a little edgy with genres that have artificial highs.
 
You think the 770 600 ohms have a veil? In which part of the spectrum? Actually, I found that there was slight sibilance when listening to pop with these 770 600 ohms. I hear no veil. I have not heard the 80 ohms version, however. Do you mean the DT880 Premium 600 ohms? I didn't know they made a pro version that with 600 ohms.
 
 
Ram (Rom)

 

[caracara08]

i dont find my HD650  to be have a "nonexistent treble".  the treble is less than the hd800, but far from being dark in my system.  maybe under amping gives it a bass heavy, dark sound? 
 
out of the ZDSE the sound is pretty balanced and sounds amazing.

 

[keanex]

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The HD650 is not colored, but it isn't neutral either. Does that make sense? Think of sunglasses, they present the world accurately, just tinted darker. Something colored would be like prescription glasses or glasses with distorting effects. They might be more fun, but they aren't what you really see.

 
Sunglasses most certainly "color" the world, as do the HD650 color sound.

 

[KB24]

 
This graph shows that the 880 600 ohms and the HD650 have a signature that is almost exactly the same everywhere except at the high end.

 

[titaniumx3]

HD650 have plenty of treble. Not sure where this 'nonexistent' treble remarks are coming from, other than people using poorly matched amps/sources or possibly having hearing loss in the upper registers.
 
It's not exactly bright, but it's definitely present. Also the treble is very natural and 'thick' sounding (if that makes any sense).

 

[I3eyond]

Interesting.  

Dang, you guys are killing my wallet with these temptations!
 
Quote:

 
This graph shows that the 880 600 ohms and the HD650 have a signature that is almost exactly the same everywhere except at the high end.

 

 

[tdockweiler]

The funny thing about the DT-880 and HD-650 is that they don't sound anything alike. Not even remotely IMO.
Total opposites almost, but you can't really tell from the signatures.

 

[BattleBrat]

^ I heard MY DT880's (before I sold them) on a Blue Circle amp, they sounded not too far off from the HD650's, the thing is the DT880's (250 ohm) are FAR harder to drive than the HD650's, I use the Leckerton UHA-4 to drive my HD650's and it is beautiful!, but not even the Lisa III drove the DT880's to my liking, that's why I sold them, there is only one pair of cans I'll tolerate home amp only, and that is the HD800's.

 

[keanex]

Frequency charts are nice, but they never tell the full story.

 

[milosolo]

The HD650 responds very noticeably to changes in amp, source, and cabling. They can go from "veiled" to breathtaking just by changing the amp. For example; at the low end the Audinst HUD-MX1 drives them surprisingly well with a nice open, natural sound across the entire frequency range, the Maverick D1 DAC/Amp sounds okay but doesn't have enough power to wake them up and make them shine, the Schiit Lyr has the power to lift the veil completely and make the HD650 sound almost like a completely different HP. Before I had the Audinst or Lyr I thought I wanted to upgrade to the LCD-2 and now I'm completely happy with the HD650.

 

[KB24]

The HD650 were my favorite cans before I got the Schiit Lyr. Before, I was using my Apogee One as an amp. The One, used as an amp, boosts the treble quite a bit. The One made the HD650 sound quite nice, but it made the K702 sound extremely skeletal and bodyless. I then got the Lyr and started using the One as a DAC. The Lyr made the K702 sound nice and full all across the spectrum. However, it made the HD650 sound too one sided. I felt like there was something missing with the 650 when comparing it to the K702. I then purchased the DT880 600 ohms and I liked the sound even better than the K702. The 880/600 had everything the K702 had, but with crisper highs and more bass. So I sold my 650 and 702. I'm now a Beyer man.
 
@milosolo I don't think the Lyr is a good choice for the HD650.
 
@OP I love my Lyr.....it just absolutely makes most headphones sound very nice. Just not the HD650. I think the Lyr is pretty dang close to being neutral. The Apogee One's amp, however, is not neutral. The One and the 650 are polar opposites, which why they sounded nice together (this was unintentional). My questions is, why would anyone want to do this? Why would you go out of your way to buy a non-neutral amp inorder to  power a non-neutral set of cans? Keep in mind, if you do buy an amp that boosts the highs to compliment the 650, you won't like it with any other headphone. Don't go out of your way to buy an amp that makes one set of headphones better. Why buy the cow when you can buy milk?
 
The best way to do this is to buy a neutral amp first and then buy headphones for it. I didn't do it this way, but if I could go back I'd do it this way.

 

[BrucYSN]

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Are HD650s considered natural/neutral?

 


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Natural, yes. The sound comes of as absolutely organic and natural to me. Nothing sounds tinny, cold, and analytical like it's K701 friend. Both have their purposes.
 
Neutral, SORT of. The bass and midrange are warmer than what a true neutral headphone is, but the HD650 was designed to be the smoothest listening experience possible at the time
 
They don't have a neutral treble presentation either, it's more laid back to spare you from any harshness. Depends on what amp too, it'll start clearing up later.
 
The HD650 is good though, regardless of what might have better this-or-that.
 
In terms of accuracy, I find the SR-225 will be more detailed, and it'll be a nice companion headphone, you could go SR-325, but I usually recommend people to give the SR-225 a try first just because they're friendlier on the wallet whilst still being able to compete with some higher priced headphones. 
 

I had to disagree with hd650 being very organic. It's good but not good enough to be called natural or organic. You wanna hear something that as natural as live music you gonna have to spent around 1k on em. Namely the LCD-2 and W11R on vocal. And it's not neutral either.... You might wanna try hd600 since it performs better on non high end amps. Or the mighty hd598, even though I didn't end up keeping it, but hell it's a wonder headphone set. 

 

[BrucYSN]

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HD650 have plenty of treble. Not sure where this 'nonexistent' treble remarks are coming from, other than people using poorly matched amps/sources or possibly having hearing loss in the upper registers.
 
It's not exactly bright, but it's definitely present. Also the treble is very natural and 'thick' sounding (if that makes any sense).

oh ye, people think LCD-2 dose not have treble too.... 

 

[KB24]

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HD650 have plenty of treble. Not sure where this 'nonexistent' treble remarks are coming from, other than people using poorly matched amps/sources or possibly having hearing loss in the upper registers.
 
It's not exactly bright, but it's definitely present. Also the treble is very natural and 'thick' sounding (if that makes any sense).

Really? They have plenty of treble? That is an overstatement. I guess I wouldn't say it's non-existant, but it def does not have plenty.
 

 

[KB24]

     Quote:

The funny thing about the DT-880 and HD-650 is that they don't sound anything alike. Not even remotely IMO.
Total opposites almost, but you can't really tell from the signatures.

Lower the highs with the eq, and then see what it sounds like.