What a long, strange trip it's been -- (Robert Hunter)
Nov 30, 2018 at 5:12 AM Post #9,571 of 14,566
My much larger experience has been the Da Ponte Mozart Operas by an orchestra and conductor who were strangers to me. Teodor Currentzis/Musicaeterna. Huh?
Currentzis and his orchestra MusicAeterna are fascinating. Comprised of young musicians and based in a remote part of Russia, they take an independent, fresh approach to standard works.



Check out other music in their repertoire: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=currentzis+musicaeterna
 
Nov 30, 2018 at 8:19 AM Post #9,572 of 14,566
Here I sit with a mission to pound a few keys – it has been some time since I have contributed anything here. About time! As I sit here we have a rainstorm headed our way within hours which our dirt road can use to de-washboard from too much use with no moisture. I have been reviewing schematics for much of today – some of them proper to the transport (a USB out section), and two boards for that project which can not be mentioned. I do not mention the Sol because it is in production – well, all of the parts are ordered! As far as the transport goes, I am listening to a Brahms Symphony No. 2 by David Zinman with the Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich. I was given a huge boxset of his Beethoven/Brahms/Mahler/Schumann/Strauss output and so far find it uneven but very interesting at its best. The Beethoven Triple Concerto still plays in my mind. My much larger experience has been the Da Ponte Mozart Operas by an orchestra and conductor who were strangers to me. Teodor Currentzis/Musicaeterna. Huh? Normally these are light operas I listen to much as I would listen to Bluegrass, although there are moments of sublime beauty in all three operas. I was unfamiliar with most of the singers; expected little really until last night became this morning at 5AM when I glanced at the clock after compulsively playing all three operas sequentially with nothing but bathroom breaks. I am unexpectedly very impressed; this sort of lighter music never commands so much of my attention. It was as if all light was sucked out of the room with only music and emotion remaining. The recordings are also stunning. Of the three, my fave is still Figaro, but I had never experienced Cosi Fan Tutte nor Don Giovanni before last night, be it live or memorex. This is anywhere from LA to the Met to Vienna live and competing against 30 or so recordings from the twenties to the 2000s. I do have to play them again just to make sure they are the triumphs I suspect they may be. I just ordered his Mahler 6. Chalk up another fine recommendation from Presto Music in London. This Da Ponte cycle is difficult to find here. Presto is my preferred classical music pimp.

I hope you will forgive my sinking into an editorial which has come very much to mind as a result of the La Ponte cycle. I frequently read lamentations of a missed or improper pairing of audio components. Such an event then triggers the suspected need of another component to “match the tuning” for optimum pairing. Users will wonder how the engineer “tuned” or adjusted the sound. I have no idea how to reconcile this mentally. Is one system Van Gogh or Klimt? Van Gogh on Tuesday and Thursday? Seafood/White one day and Lamb/Riojo the next? You really think I am an artist? Really? Watch me ballet or hear me sing and then tell me that is still so. I am a spectator of art. I go to music, concerts, plays and museums. I suck up the experience of art created by others. As an audio engineer, it is my job to facilitate the recreation of precisely that, not to paint it pastel, bright or dull colors. It is my job to then experience the art of others, then endeavor to make a bit of audio gear which takes that art and passes its experience on. If the music is ecstatic, the listener should experience precisely that. And so on. I neither wrote nor conducted the music. Just because I did not create the music does not dictate that I cannot recreate it or pass it on to others.

As a show director, I read a play and recreate the experience, music (if present), and emotions. If the play is sad, I have done well if there is not a dry eye in the house at the end. If the play is dark, the audience should be poleaxed at the end. Again, I am a communicator or re-creator, not an artist.

I learned this from Peter Walker, my hero and audio mentor, founder of the Acoustical Manufacturing Co. Ltd., and inventor of the Quad Electrostatic Loudspeaker. I first met him at a bar in the Blackstone Hotel in Chicago at a 1975 CES. These were the days when Saul Marantz would be hanging out there, some 3 or 4 years before the Las Vegas CES shows started. At the time, (and still to this day) I had a pair of Quad ESL speakers. Being introduced to him was my wildest dream. His advice was to recreate, not create which sticks with me yet today. Years later, when I began to direct shows, I applied the same advice. Funny how that works.

There are too many engineers who pose as artists in building an audio component. This in turn fosters expectations of audio components as art. Now some may say, yes, but Saul Marantz was a horn player. True as it was, all that meant was that he knew what a *** horn sounded like. Others may argue this is a dated view, as much modern “music” is assembled from a series of recordings which never existed in the real world, such as autotuned voices, synthesized tracks, etc. In other words, much of modern music is reduced to a non empirical, arbitrary construct. There are no clear objective rules on how to recreate constructs. It is completely subjective. This begs an artistic component to compliment the favorites of the engineer. This is quite different from music which existed as an event, but more on that in a bit.

This means that there is an increasing need for “tuning” or “engineering art” as musical events degrade to constructs. My purpose here is not to criticize much of modern music, but to explain the rise of this notion of the engineer to add art to recordings which beg for subjective analysis. More and more reviewers subscribe to this absurd belief. It is becoming ever more prevalent.

A point I have not sufficiently developed is that emotion is a component of musical events. I argue that a component designed to reproduce musical events as objectively as possible (a la Peter Walker) better conveys the emotion of the original event. That is exactly why I listen to music. That is exactly why I attend so many musical events. I note that those who best appreciate our multibit digital gear are those who regularly attend musical events. So that is my goal. I argue for reproduction. Emotional satisfaction. Happiness. Diversion.

But what if your listening time is largely spent with autotuned pop music, or other arbitrary melodic constructs with beat such as techno. This may be a case when you are better off trusting some other designer to take artistic license. Some of this contact may benefit from “detail”, “black background”, “warm sound”, “bottom end slam”, or whatever else. But what happens when you play the next item from your list? Do you need another “tuning”? How many DACs? How many amps to get the combination for what you want for that “tuning”. Nope, I suck at being an artist. If you ever see me at an audio show sporting a beret, call an ambulance. That’s precisely why I concentrate on reproduction of musical events. Easier for this old guy and still gives me what I need. Yup, for reproduction of musical events, multibit rules!

As a closing, I have returned to the Zinman box. As I recall, I spent 80 bucks for thia long box which included, Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann, Schubert and Mahler Symphony Cycles, Beethoven Piano, Violin, Triple Concerti, Overtures, Misa Solemnis, Strauss Tone Poems, and a few diverse selections from Haydn and Wagner. I am now well into the Mahler Cycle which I find curiously odd, as the tempi are on the quick side, yet it is obvious he is not just a beat counter like Toscanini; subtleties in orchestral phrasing are raised in pleasant context. It was a great way to get rid of eighty bucks. On Friday night I will revisit the Da Ponte Cycle. And yes, multibit still rules for Zinman!
Thanks Mike, a pleasure to hear from you as always.

To your question of 'how many DACs?' my two main systems have two each. I prefer the Yggdrassil and my wife prefers a less forward presentation. Therefore, we have kept the Logitech Transporter as a second digital source. It was already a sunk cost.
 
Nov 30, 2018 at 1:13 PM Post #9,574 of 14,566
As a closing, I have returned to the Zinman box. As I recall, I spent 80 bucks for thia long box which included, Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann, Schubert and Mahler Symphony Cycles, Beethoven Piano, Violin, Triple Concerti, Overtures, Misa Solemnis, Strauss Tone Poems, and a few diverse selections from Haydn and Wagner. I am now well into the Mahler Cycle which I find curiously odd, as the tempi are on the quick side, yet it is obvious he is not just a beat counter like Toscanini; subtleties in orchestral phrasing are raised in pleasant context. It was a great way to get rid of eighty bucks. On Friday night I will revisit the Da Ponte Cycle. And yes, multibit still rules for Zinman!

Thanks for the update @Baldr

You are such an enabler... After searching a while I was able to fine a new Zinman box for ~$150 shipped, should be here in a couple weeks...
 
Nov 30, 2018 at 4:16 PM Post #9,575 of 14,566
After owning the BiFrost and first Gungnir, then moving to the Gumby, I must say that I'll always own a Schiit MB DAC.
Everything about the music just sounds so Real.
I even enjoy it with electronic music, because I think it's the way the artist intended his/her music to sound.
After all, accurate reproduction of the artists' intention is what we're really after, ya know!
Cheers, Mike. You rock.
 
Nov 30, 2018 at 9:31 PM Post #9,577 of 14,566
As far as the transport goes, I am listening to a Brahms Symphony...

Thank you Mike, reading this makes me believe the transport is now a certainty. I've been hoping but afraid that it might not come to pass. I am really excited for this!

I hope you will forgive my sinking into an editorial which has come very much to mind as a result of the La Ponte cycle. I frequently read lamentations of a missed or improper pairing of audio components. Such an event then triggers the suspected need of another component to “match the tuning” for optimum pairing. Users will wonder how the engineer “tuned” or adjusted the sound. I have no idea how to reconcile this mentally. Is one system Van Gogh or Klimt? Van Gogh on Tuesday and Thursday? Seafood/White one day and Lamb/Riojo the next? You really think I am an artist? Really? Watch me ballet or hear me sing and then tell me that is still so. I am a spectator of art. I go to music, concerts, plays and museums. I suck up the experience of art created by others. As an audio engineer, it is my job to facilitate the recreation of precisely that, not to paint it pastel, bright or dull colors. It is my job to then experience the art of others, then endeavor to make a bit of audio gear which takes that art and passes its experience on. If the music is ecstatic, the listener should experience precisely that. And so on. I neither wrote nor conducted the music. Just because I did not create the music does not dictate that I cannot recreate it or pass it on to others.

As a show director, I read a play and recreate the experience, music (if present), and emotions. If the play is sad, I have done well if there is not a dry eye in the house at the end. If the play is dark, the audience should be poleaxed at the end. Again, I am a communicator or re-creator, not an artist.

I learned this from Peter Walker, my hero and audio mentor, founder of the Acoustical Manufacturing Co. Ltd., and inventor of the Quad Electrostatic Loudspeaker. I first met him at a bar in the Blackstone Hotel in Chicago at a 1975 CES. These were the days when Saul Marantz would be hanging out there, some 3 or 4 years before the Las Vegas CES shows started. At the time, (and still to this day) I had a pair of Quad ESL speakers. Being introduced to him was my wildest dream. His advice was to recreate, not create which sticks with me yet today. Years later, when I began to direct shows, I applied the same advice. Funny how that works.

There are too many engineers who pose as artists in building an audio component. This in turn fosters expectations of audio components as art. Now some may say, yes, but Saul Marantz was a horn player. True as it was, all that meant was that he knew what a *** horn sounded like. Others may argue this is a dated view, as much modern “music” is assembled from a series of recordings which never existed in the real world, such as autotuned voices, synthesized tracks, etc. In other words, much of modern music is reduced to a non empirical, arbitrary construct. There are no clear objective rules on how to recreate constructs. It is completely subjective. This begs an artistic component to compliment the favorites of the engineer. This is quite different from music which existed as an event, but more on that in a bit.

This means that there is an increasing need for “tuning” or “engineering art” as musical events degrade to constructs. My purpose here is not to criticize much of modern music, but to explain the rise of this notion of the engineer to add art to recordings which beg for subjective analysis. More and more reviewers subscribe to this absurd belief. It is becoming ever more prevalent.

A point I have not sufficiently developed is that emotion is a component of musical events. I argue that a component designed to reproduce musical events as objectively as possible (a la Peter Walker) better conveys the emotion of the original event. That is exactly why I listen to music. That is exactly why I attend so many musical events. I note that those who best appreciate our multibit digital gear are those who regularly attend musical events. So that is my goal. I argue for reproduction. Emotional satisfaction. Happiness. Diversion.

But what if your listening time is largely spent with autotuned pop music, or other arbitrary melodic constructs with beat such as techno. This may be a case when you are better off trusting some other designer to take artistic license. Some of this contact may benefit from “detail”, “black background”, “warm sound”, “bottom end slam”, or whatever else. But what happens when you play the next item from your list? Do you need another “tuning”? How many DACs? How many amps to get the combination for what you want for that “tuning”. Nope, I suck at being an artist. If you ever see me at an audio show sporting a beret, call an ambulance. That’s precisely why I concentrate on reproduction of musical events. Easier for this old guy and still gives me what I need. Yup, for reproduction of musical events, multibit rules!

Brilliant, simply brilliantly stated. I'm not good at putting my thoughts into print, but this editorial says a lot about what I think is missing in the audiophile community of today. Everyone wants more (this), (that), or (the other thing) from their equipment without giving much thought to what is accurate. It's a pleasure to read these words from a principal of a leading company in the industry.
 
Nov 30, 2018 at 10:03 PM Post #9,578 of 14,566
... Others may argue this is a dated view, as much modern “music” is assembled from a series of recordings which never existed in the real world, such as autotuned voices, synthesized tracks, etc. In other words, much of modern music is reduced to a non empirical, arbitrary construct. ...

This means that there is an increasing need for “tuning” or “engineering art” as musical events degrade to constructs. My purpose here is not to criticize much of modern music, but to explain the rise of this notion of the engineer to add art to recordings which beg for subjective analysis. More and more reviewers subscribe to this absurd belief. It is becoming ever more prevalent.


This reminds me of a chapter in one of the Skylark of Space books by E.E. "Doc" Smith. (Some googling) Is it the Norlaminians that complain about the soullessness of their music? And then really enjoy a violin piece played by Dorothy?

Sorry for the ramble.
 
Nov 30, 2018 at 11:15 PM Post #9,579 of 14,566
Thanks Mike, a pleasure to hear from you as always.

To your question of 'how many DACs?' my two main systems have two each. I prefer the Yggdrassil and my wife prefers a less forward presentation. Therefore, we have kept the Logitech Transporter as a second digital source. It was already a sunk cost.
Transporter = brilliant. Should you tire of it.......
 
Nov 30, 2018 at 11:47 PM Post #9,580 of 14,566


This reminds me of a chapter in one of the Skylark of Space books by E.E. "Doc" Smith. (Some googling) Is it the Norlaminians that complain about the soullessness of their music? And then really enjoy a violin piece played by Dorothy?

Sorry for the ramble.
I remember the Skylark and Lensman seires by Doc Smith.
 
Dec 1, 2018 at 10:14 AM Post #9,582 of 14,566
Nice post, @Baldr. Back in the day when I was involved with people like Tom Oberhiem and Bob Pearlman working on how to manufacture sounds to replace obsolete things like orchestra, I met the famous engineer and recording master Rupert Neve. He told us (a group of us at a "how to run a studio" seminar) a quote that has always stuck with me and fits into your story. "In order to record a French Horn you must know everything about what a French Horn sounds like. You must understand it's character and how it contributes to the whole, and you must know this for every instrument." Listening to most modern recordings tells me there are a lot of amateurs out there who don't understand instruments and who are just sliding faders up and down in studios.
 
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Dec 1, 2018 at 10:28 AM Post #9,583 of 14,566
Nice post, @Baldr. Back in the day when I was involved with people like Tom Oberhiem and Bob Pearlman working on how to manufacture sounds to replace obsolete things like orchestra, I met the famous engineer and recording master Rupert Neve. He told us (a group of us at a "how to run a studio" seminar) a quote that has always stuck with me and fits into your story. "In order to record a French Horn you must know everything about what a French Horn sounds like. You must understand it's character and how it contributes to the whole, and you must know this for every instrument." Listening to most modern recordings tells me there are a lot of amateurs out there who don't understand instruments sliding faders up and down in studios.

Amen to that.
 
Dec 2, 2018 at 11:07 AM Post #9,584 of 14,566
@Baldr, thank you very much for the update. Very interesting read, and also thanks for the listening tip, just started with Currentzis' Figaro. What a joy!!!

Edit: first time I hear it played with a piano, and that fact, plus the way it is played, somehow significantly contributes to the different and very pleasant atmosphere this recording has about it. Revealing (at least for the amateur I am).

Edit 2: this performance has a beauty and urgency I have not heard before in this opera. And then we often think that everything has been said about these old works. NOT
 
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Dec 2, 2018 at 9:27 PM Post #9,585 of 14,566
I was indifferent to It's a Wonderful Life, an opera by Gene Scheer and Jake Heggie.
 
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