[KoshNaranek]

  Hey all,
 
Just some comments on this thread's purposes - I must begin with a portion of my history at Theta Digital where I had a group of 11 people to manage.  They all knew that I could either hire a manager to run the shop, or letting them (for the most part) to be self managing given a set of work goals.  The advantage of no manager freed up significantly more money to pay them.  Since I made that money related to the company profits, they felt truly a part of the whole picture.
 
Now obviously there is no money involved in running or participating in a thread.  It is an exchange of ideas, feelings, notions, or concepts connected with this audio hobby (habit?, obsession?) we share.  In such an exchange, some things may be presented which are of more importance to some than others.  Wagnerian opera?  Not to so many.  But for anyone who spends 15 or so hours of their life with the Ring, it reveals how spectacular a recording event can be truly done in the wild, rather than just a studio.
 
There has been a recent discussion on this thread re network transmission of audio, pre-processors, reclockers, etc. that I settled back to listen to what everybody said.  If I am going to build stuff which I expect to sell, I need to do just that.  (BTW, thanks for the input)
 
I guess what I am trying to say is that this thread is as much for me as it is for you.  It is not social media.  I do not give a flying phuc what any one had for breakfast or whether their dog farted.  But it is important to me what motivates everyone in this hobby.  For that reason, I would prefer to leave it as self-managing as possible.  I have only deleted three posts from this thread, and those only because they were truly incomprehensible, like the writings of someone drugged just prior to surgery.
 
Above all, I hope it is as enjoyable and non-trivial to you as it is to me.

 
 
Mike, your last post is a bit confusing to me.
 
If you are asking me to desist from CD discussions, I will gladly do so. As far as I am concerned, I inhabit this thread at your tacit invitation and wish to do nothing to irritate my host and your other guests. I like being here because the discussions are always interesting and, other than what I interpret to be good natured ribbing, polite.
 
If you are concerned about my comments to bosiemoncrief, this is just a little leg pulling. I believe Mr. moncrief knows this as well as he gave me reputation on the original comment. If anyone in the audience misunderstood, please let the record be corrected. I enjoy his comments about opera and classical music. This is an area that I know little about and his comments lead me on google dives that leave me enriched and short on time. I can honestly say that I now know almost as much about opera as Mongolian throat singing.
 
I know that I can make a complete arse of myself, but I do so without any malicious intent. This method of communication(blogging) is sadly lacking in emotional content. It does not convey tone. Please accept my apologies for any irritation I may have caused.

 

[Baldr]

   
 
Mike, your last post is a bit confusing to me.
 
If you are asking me to desist from CD discussions, I will gladly do so. As far as I am concerned, I inhabit this thread at your tacit invitation and wish to do nothing to irritate my host and your other guests. I like being here because the discussions are always interesting and, other than what I interpret to be good natured ribbing, polite.
 
If you are concerned about my comments to bosiemoncrief, this is just a little leg pulling. I believe Mr. moncrief knows this as well as he gave me reputation on the original comment. If anyone in the audience misunderstood, please let the record be corrected. I enjoy his comments about opera and classical music. This is an area that I know little about and his comments lead me on google dives that leave me enriched and short on time. I can honestly say that I now know almost as much about opera as Mongolian throat singing.
 
I know that I can make a complete arse of myself, but I do so without any malicious intent. This method of communication(blogging) is sadly lacking in emotional content. It does not convey tone. Please accept my apologies for any irritation I may have
 

 
Now then, I can get confused myself but I'm was just sayin' all posts are welcome as long as they deal with audio and what you like, even as weird as Wagnerian opera (which I myself started).  You are very welcome on this thread, and if you have made an arse of yourself, it somehow evaded my scrutiny.  Audio and music transcend all else is what this is about to me.  Thanks for being here.  There is no place for passive aggression in my universe, so please do not take any of my writing as such.

 

[KoshNaranek]

Now then, I can get confused myself but I'm was just sayin' all posts are welcome as long as they deal with audio and what you like, even as weird as Wagnerian opera (which I myself started).  You are very welcome on this thread, and if you have made an arse of yourself, it somehow evaded my scrutiny.  Audio and music transcend is what this is all about to me.  Thanks for being here.  There is no place for passive aggression in my universe, so please do not take any of my writing as such.

Thank you. You are a gracious host.

 

[bigro]

On Jason's thread there is a link to DAR with interviews with Mike and Jason for those interested.

 

[Baldr]

Damn, now we lose Greg Lake!  R.I.P.

 

[watchnerd]

@Baldr
 
I just finished watching the interview video on...
 
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/12/number-two-reaches-number-one-schiit-audio-factory-tour-interview/#respond
 
 
...and I have to say this:
 
As someone with a physical science degree, working in the tech industry, a volunteer recording engineer, amateur jazz musician, AES member, and field recorder, I look at a lot of audiophile claims with a skeptical eye first, especially when it flies in the face of scientific/engineering theory, common professional "hands-on" sound engineering practices, psychoacoustics, or real-world musical experiences.  
 
There's just so much mystical audio voodoo crapola being sold for insane prices to the gullible that it is embarrassing for the industry, as a whole, and that it can turn audio enthusiasts into skeptics, including myself. Much of the high end community is eating its seed corn.
 
In that vein, I've never been sure what to make of the R2R vs DS debate.  One one side seem to be blatant placebophiles, and on the other side objectivists comfortable with "good enough".
 
However, your knowledge of digital audio history and theory, combined with your screed against the innovation constraints of standards bodies and building-block makers, makes me want to just say, "Okay....he's not a poseur. Maybe you can take his word for it that the underlying theory makes sense and that it's better."
 
As much as it pains me to do so....

 

[aamefford]

  Damn, now we lose Greg Lake!  R.I.P.

Wow, this one hurts.  Brain Salad Surgery was on heavy rotation when I was in high school.....  This has been a tough year.

 

[bigro]

  @Baldr
 
I just finished watching the interview video on...
 
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/12/number-two-reaches-number-one-schiit-audio-factory-tour-interview/#respond
 
 
...and I have to say this:
 
As someone with a physical science degree, working in the tech industry, a volunteer recording engineer, amateur jazz musician, AES member, and field recorder, I look at a lot of audiophile claims with a skeptical eye first, especially when it flies in the face of scientific/engineering theory, common professional "hands-on" sound engineering practices, psychoacoustics, or real-world musical experiences.  
 
There's just so much mystical audio voodoo crapola being sold for insane prices to the gullible that it is embarrassing for the industry, as a whole, and that it can turn audio enthusiasts into skeptics, including myself. Much of the high end community is eating its seed corn.
 
In that vein, I've never been sure what to make of the R2R vs DS debate.  One one side seem to be blatant placebophiles, and on the other side objectivists comfortable with "good enough".
 
However, your knowledge of digital audio history and theory, combined with your screed against the innovation constraints of standards bodies and building-block makers, makes me want to just say, "Okay....he's not a poseur. Maybe you can take his word for it that the underlying theory makes sense and that it's better."
 
As much as it pains me to do so....

 
There is a lot of what one could consider snake oil out there. Mike's point about Things Like D/S Dacs or Dolby basically taking the engineers freedom to innovate and filing it in the trash is one of the points that makes me think of all the gear that has come out and why for most part they focus on how much flashy stickers and wireless options they can put on them instead of what innovations they can put into them. With Transducers I usually do not have a hard time picking out the differences in each one but everything else upstream I find many things sound more alike than not, especially from the big companies, from this interview I have a better understanding why that is .
 
Every time I Hear a one of Mikes Multibit Dacs, They stand out. I heard a Yggy for the first time at a local meet a few months ago and I had to pick my Jaw up from the floor. I have a Bimby and am utterly impressed with that every time I put it to use so I did not expect there is to such a noticeable difference. I went back to my Bimby a few tables down and then back to the yggy. Thinking maybe its the amp or headphones. The Owner was very gracious and let us try different amps and headphones. Mind Blown. Atomic Bob's comparison of the MB line and being able to locate the offender that passed gas with better precision as you go up the line is spot on. It sounded like the Bimby but better in every way. There was nothing else in the room that truly stood out with the exception of The Ether C headphones, Which sounded as open or more open as some of the other open cans while still having great detail and balance.
 
The Companies that have the brain power and the Cojones to re write the rules are always the ones that impress me the most both with attitude and their products.

 

[gefski]

Agreed!

At $1600 USD for that made-in-China Rednet box, there is no chance I'm buying that.  It's probably 90% markup.

I might pay $600 for the unDaes if I can get over the one sample rate only ridiculousness of it, assuming it performs as well as the Rednet.

...or Mr. Moffat could save us with a real solution for $299.   

Spent a few fun hours with atomicbob. Goal -- find differences feeding Yggy via two Dante Ethernet boxes -- Rednet16 or Atterotech unDaes-O.

Proper a/b, levels right on. HD800 & DT880. Great setup by Bob had us able to listen simultaneously, no passing headphones back and forth. He amped Cavalli, I amped Jot.

Did many 20 second listenings and many 3 minute listenings. I couldn't see what box Bob selected and he was ignoring it. If anything had jumped out at us, we would have looked at it.

Result of this test: we enjoyed the listening, but struggled mightily a/b wise, failing to nail down any consistent differences between these two Dante boxes. You wouldn't want to bet your hard earned $ on me doing better than coin tosses. Result was the same whether sourced by windoz/JRiver or OS X/Audirvana+.

What I am thrilled about is Yggy fed over the Dante Ethernet Autobahn!

IMO
YMMV

 

[belgiangenius]

Useful. Thanks!

Now it is true that rednet can do on the fly sample rate changes, but Atterotech cannot, correct?

 

[GearMe]

Damn, now we lose Greg Lake!  R.I.P.

Wow, this one hurts.  Brain Salad Surgery was on heavy rotation when I was in high school.....  This has been a tough year.

Yep...great band -- "The show that never ends!"

That said, I'm not sure how much my parents liked them.

First stereo was L100's hooked up to a Phase Linear 400. May not have been the most accurate, but it definitely could go loud and I often used ELP to do so -- Lucky Man, Karn Evil 9, Hoedown...great stuff.

Surprisingly though, my favorite song from them was 'From the Beginning' a slower, melodic song...

 

[gefski]

Useful. Thanks!

Now it is true that rednet can do on the fly sample rate changes, but Atterotech cannot, correct?

Folks on the Rednet 3 and 16 thread have talked about getting that working, so check it out. I can't with unDAES-O.

 

[atomicbob]

 
Agreed!
 
At $1600 USD for that made-in-China Rednet box, there is no chance I'm buying that.  It's probably 90% markup.
 
I might pay $600 for the unDaes if I can get over the one sample rate only ridiculousness of it, assuming it performs as well as the Rednet.
 
...or Mr. Moffat could save us with a real solution for $299. 

 

It would appear that the unDaes-o audio bridge may better serve the consumer listening market, at a lower price, with fewer features not necessary for the consumer. It does not Sample Rate follow. Sample Rate follow is a consumer audio feature. Not necessary nor even desirable in Pro Audio or Installed Sound.
 
I would like to comment on markup for the Focusrite Rednet and Audinate. There is an initial licensing to play in the Audinate Dante technology space. It isn't cheap. This in addition to the cost of the Brooklyn cards. Audinate is charging accordingly to amortizing their R&D investment along with making some money for the intellectual property they developed, which is significant. So is Focusrite in their implementations which target the Pro Audio and Installed Sound markets. They also must cover the cost for all those support calls they receive after the sale. Keeping the lights on, the building warm, staff paid, etc. isn't free. The markets served by the D16 are far more complex than most here will ever contemplate other than to possibly experience the sound at a Dante equipped large venue, the mega shows.
 
Similarly are we paying beyond the parts cost for Schitt products for their intellectual property developments. And they well deserve it. Mike, Jason et. al. have a lifetime of solid engineering learning and experience behind them which make the products we enjoy possible. If anything, they are really cutting all of us a break as their collective knowledge is worth far more.
 
Back to my Rednet AOIP, Schitt Dacs, Amps and some HD650 or HD800 for an evening's listening adventure. - AB

 

[atomicbob]

  Damn, now we lose Greg Lake!  R.I.P.

The musical talent loss this year has brought tears to many eyes. May their music live on forever.

 

[RCBinTN]

  The musical talent loss this year has brought tears to many eyes. May their music live on forever.

 
+1000  A rough year for somebody my age (59).  Many of my icons.  ELP was a great band, very talented and progressive.  I still think "Trilogy" is one of the best albums ever.