What a long, strange trip it's been -- (Robert Hunter)
Jan 30, 2016 at 8:45 AM Post #331 of 14,566
  I hate taking the other side of this particular argument as it's not where my sympathies lie, but if we're leaning towards judging what we like based on observation and visceral reaction should we completely write off the use of what is really just another tool?  What if we like the Auto Tune or Melodyne enhanced versions of a musical performance better than the non-enhanced version?
 
(snip)

 
I believe this would be the point where a trip to an audiologist would be both recommended and advantageous to hearing acuity.   
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Jan 30, 2016 at 5:18 PM Post #333 of 14,566
   
+1  Jazz at the Pawnshop is a killer live album.
 
Try this one, too...
 

Allman Brothers Live at Fillmore East
Mr. Duane Allman just kills the guitar...
 

In the top 5 of best guitar players ever...

 
 

 
There is a 6 disk box set of those shows that were at the Fillmore.  What a great venue!  Too bad I missed them there.  I did see the A.B.B. when they were an opening act.  They opened for Mountain at Stoneybrook and BLEW us away.
 
I'm embarrassed to say some of the audience booed Mountain when they started playing.  I've got a bootleg of the show and cannot keep my eyes dry when I listen to it.
 
Jan 31, 2016 at 9:45 PM Post #334 of 14,566
The original master tape for "Allman Brothers Band at Fillmore East" was either stored poorly, wore out quickly, or was a poorly engineered mix in the beginning.
 
There is a remix of the original multi-track master tapes which was released about a dozen years or so called "The Fillmore Concerts" which is a significantly better sounding version of those live shows than any of the "Allman Brothers Band at Fillmore East" releases.
 
For example, it is the only version of those concerts where the drummers sound they are playing percussion instruments instead of cardboard boxes and trash cans.
 
Feb 1, 2016 at 5:46 PM Post #335 of 14,566
So...to get back to the technicalities and bring it back around to something we all know and love hate - jitter. And how it relates to bad recordings through one of the most popular DAW interfaces, the ProTools HD196.
 
Pink Paper #002 – The Future of Clocks: Clarifications in the Audio Clocking Paradigm
 
I remember when this was all happening in the industry. People would record to Otari's RADAR, simply for ease of recording setup and the converters "just sounded better". Even some sessions would track on 48-channel 1/2" DASH, then get all transferred into ProTools for mixing/editing. The converters on those Studer, Sony, and MCI DASH machines I am sure sounded way better. I saw many a ProTools rig with one Apogee 8-channel converter, and two Digi HD192 converters as slaves all clocked off the Apogee. People were flying around word clock like old peer-to-peer networks.
 
The fact is that Digidesign was (maybe even still is) a smaller company from a bigger video editing company, Avid. I still wonder why they chose a cheap converter clock with such a professional rig.
 
Either way, it just goes to show how important jitter and clocking with digital audio in the encoding and decoding process. And multibit is not immune to this.
 
Feb 2, 2016 at 7:04 AM Post #337 of 14,566
 
Any good live albums that anyone would recommend.
 

I really enjoy listening to Return of the Jazz Communicators.  That's a Smoke Sessions album many of which are reported to be quite good.
 
Personally, in terms of the autotune/melodyne thing adding to the music, no, not for me.  I like my music to be made with instruments, not computers.  Synthesizers get a pass, obviously :wink:  Just a personal taste thing.


Don't know if I'd dismiss all synthesizers:  samplers, probably.  But synths can have their uses.
On the hipocritical side, Adventures in Modern recording by the Buggles was always a favourite memory to go back to, once in a while.
 
Feb 2, 2016 at 7:20 AM Post #338 of 14,566
 
Don't know if I'd dismiss all synthesizers:  samplers, probably.  But synths can have their uses.
On the hipocritical side, Adventures in Modern recording by the Buggles was always a favourite memory to go back to, once in a while.


Sorry, I had hoped to make clear that synthesizers did not fall under the computer generated music rubric.  Sadly it seems I had the opposite effect.
 
I used to work across the hall from Kurzweil Music Systems.  The beautiful sounds their synths could make!
 
Also, theremins.  The soundtrack to Forbidden Planet counts as music, no?
 
Feb 2, 2016 at 9:57 PM Post #339 of 14,566
It seems there is some demand for a Schiit all tube phono preamp. As most of you know, we already offer the Mani as our first phono entry. It offers variable gain settings, and two different input impedance settings. There are a variety of cartridge options with gains that can vary significantly. This makes the Mani suitable for a variety of those cartridges, either moving coil or moving magnet. Such are a benefit of solid state design – an ease of phono gain design variability.
 
Tubes have real world constraints which impact costs and features. The first is an unsuitability for all but the highest output moving coil cartridges. In 1978, I introduced the first ever what was referred to at the time “pre-pre amp” made with tubes. It used Western Electric 417A tubes which were just adequate for moving coil cartridges in a noise sense. The problem was microphonics, which were such that a mosquito beating its wings within 50 or so feet were intolerable. The tubes were chosen as a result of evaluating dozens of tube types by manufactures in the USA, Europe, Japan, and Russia. This eventually led me to the conclusion that middle to lower output moving coil cartridges and tubes are mutually exclusive.
 
The next issue is gain – this is due to my philosophy of no feedback vacuum tube design. No feedback dictates the use of low distortion tubes at a fixed operating point (bias). The gain ends at a level for moving magnet (common, ubiquitous) cartridges (the majority of my favorites). The only way to provide variable gain is to add another gain stage and then passively step it down. As a lifelong minimalist, the only better thing than an extra very good gain stage is no extra gain stage at all.
 
The next constraint is no tube rolling outside of the 6DJ8/6922/7308 family. This is for several reasons. First, the no feedback operating point limits the tube installed. Outside of the designed-in tube family, the varying family of curves will cause gain to vary, and distortion to increase. Because a phono preamp starts with signals in the 1 millivolt or even lower, it requires the filament supply to be regulated, to minimize hum. If the current increases significantly over the regulated spec, the hum and heat will do the same. Finally, the RIAA equalized output of the preamp will vary significantly. That is because the source impedance of the tube is a component of the RIAA equalization in a passive design – which every preamp I have ever built features. One design parameter that is very important is the deviation from the required RIAA equalization. The majority of the competition at any price point has variations of 1-3 db being average. The Mani is within 0.2 db either way. The majority of feedback RIAA eq tube designs tend to have significant bumps up at the bottom end, which could give rise to “tubby bass” reputations of tube designs.
 
Finally we get to cost. The highest quality resistors for the tube preamp are 3-7X the cost for a Mani. Film and foil polypropylene caps at tube voltages are not cheap, and the 20 times power design is much more expensive, not to mention the regulation. The metal for the enclosure will also be at least 6x. The net result is that such a proposed design will be 4 to 5 times the price of a Mani.
 
Given the above info, what say you all?
 
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Feb 2, 2016 at 10:15 PM Post #340 of 14,566
this is probebly of topic , was watching jerry garcia  live at the shoreline in 90 ,just genuis ,i dont know anyone that can touch him , what id like to know is did any of you guys seen the grateful dead when owsely stanely had the wall of sound backing them up .its just such a staggerling beautifuul setup .would have loved  to have  lived in those days ,so if anyone was at one of those concert i would love to hear about it ,and what it was like to  drop white lightning

pic of my setup ,f       i love this amp ,you touch it and it gives you cool buzz ,can anyone explain how that works is it the grooves imbeded in the surface that shimmer
 
Feb 2, 2016 at 11:01 PM Post #341 of 14,566
  Given the above info, what say you all?

I'm not a tube fan and I think there are plenty of interesting solid state things that may offer better opportunities.  Things like an ADC, some sort of equalization device, maybe even more consumer-friendly versions of the things that MiniDSP offers.
 
Or, even better, a turntable to match the Mani.  Although I am currently smitten by this Polish beauty.  
 
Feb 2, 2016 at 11:09 PM Post #342 of 14,566
  Wow that logic is a little, uh, strained?  If lack of music education is responsible for the supposed recent degradation of pop music, how do you explain the Archies' "Sugar Sugar" being number one in 1969? Or "A Tisket a Tasket" being a major hit in 1938?  I think the truth is more likely that "popular music" has always been a very different animal from other genre, and has always been less cerebral or meaningful or complex.  Today's pop music is simply the modern version of the same old stuff.


you could be right but  i still really liked a tisket a tasket
 
Feb 2, 2016 at 11:54 PM Post #343 of 14,566
snip....  
Given the above info, what say you all?

Sounds like a lot of effort to create something with limited market, a (relatively) high price for the Schiit business model and arguably less performance than a Mani, all to do tubes for tube's sake.  It seems to me a tube buffer could be introduced somewhere along the chain instead, perhaps at the preamp to amp juncture?
 
Caveat - I sold all my old vinyl, and at this point, I'm not likely to reinvest.  Maybe in another 5 or 10 years, in retirement when I actually have the time to enjoy the ritual of vinyl again (and there is much positive about that ritual).
 
Feb 3, 2016 at 12:41 AM Post #344 of 14,566
^ +1 - unless Mike your appetite is whetted by the challenge of doing this within the schiit model? Or you see potential synergy with other schiit products not yet in play perhaps?
 
Feb 3, 2016 at 2:05 AM Post #345 of 14,566
  The gain ends at a level for moving magnet (common, ubiquitous) cartridges (the majority of my favorites).


Would love to see a discussion of MM vs MC cartridges, and suggestions on which go well with the Mani. If I recall the only cartridge you've mentioned in the past around here was the Denon 103R.

 
PS I too would love to see a Schiit turntable. Arguably this is about source reproduction, Schiit's raison d'être, although arguably too this requires a whole different skill set and area of expertise.
 

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