[Kunlun]

 
Quote:

 
Not at all.  The impression i got from the ES5s intent was to be the best expression of a neutral reference monitor.  Adding bass would make it a different beast for a different audience I believe.
 

Based on your and sumflow's responses, I wonder if people are under the impression that I'm asking for Westone to stop making the ES5 as they have it and re-make it differently.
 
I'm not asking for that.
 
I think it'd be neat if they made another, related custom monitor (a different beast, if you will) with similar mids and highs but a little more bass--which is exactly what JHaudio has done with the JH 13 and JH16 and Ultimate Ears sorta did with their UE10 and UE11.
 
JH didn't stop producing the JH13 when it made the JH16. Is that more clear?

 

 

[Anaxilus]

Meow!  

 

[Kunlun]

 
Quote:

Meow!  

Sorry. Had a hairball.

 

[cooperpwc]

Quote:

Secondly, your statement "the Bass is already excellent, you designed it yourself" is debateable.

This review https://www.editorsguild.com/FromTheGuild.cfm?FromTheGuildid=176 rates the ES5 well below both the UE18 and Jh13 and Jh16 in bass response.

 
I have no issues with your post at all except that I disagree a bit with your characterisation of this review (which I first linked in this thread some time ago.) The specific quote on the Westone bass is "While it doesn’t play as low as others, it plays low enough and handles it well." While I don't put to much credence in the numerical scores - the ES5 came first overall by a hair over the JH13 and then the JH16 - the feeling I got reading between the lines is that the reviewer might like the ES5 most with the JH offerings a close second. I am just pointing this out lest people skimming this thread think your reference was a criticism of the ES5. He came to praise them, not bury them, so to speak. The best bet is for people to read the review.

 

[Kunlun]

 
Quote:

Quote:
 
I have no issues with your post at all except that I disagree a bit with your characterisation of this review (which I first linked in this thread some time ago.) The specific quote on the Westone bass is "While it doesn’t play as low as others, it plays low enough and handles it well." While I don't put to much credence in the numerical scores - the ES5 came first overall by a hair over the JH13 and then the JH16 - the feeling I got reading between the lines is that the reviewer might like the ES5 most with the JH offerings a close second. I am just pointing this out lest people skimming this thread think your reference was a criticism of the ES5. He came to praise them, not bury them, so to speak. The best bet is for people to read the review.

Yes, reading the review is best. While the ES5 did come in first by half a point over the JH16, the ES5 was rated two whole points below the JH16 for bass and two and half points below the UE18 for bass. So, I don't think one should read only the words and not look at the numerical rating, as the reviewer is clearly telling us something with his ratings. The reviewer clearly liked the ES5 very much, but bass was its weakest aspect, following the others rather than leading.
 


 

 

[Ypoknons]

Interpeting reviews is a difficult business, at best. A FR graph could settle questions of extension and quantity, though we'll probably need about impressions before the question of quality can be settled.

 

[cooperpwc]

Kunlun, agreed on the numerical score. I was putting that in the context of how the reviewer saw the bass fitting in with the overall sound signature. But for sure, if you want a basshead IEM, the ES5 is not it.
 
Quote:

Interpeting reviews is a difficult business, at best. A FR graph could settle questions of extension and quantity, though we'll probably need about impressions before the question of quality can be settled.

More impressions and comparisons is indeed what is required. They will come.
 

 

[Ypoknons]

Unfortunately, Thinking Group did not have universal demos of ES5 or any other Westone custom at the Hong Kong High-End AV show. Sleek and JH Audio (including Jerry Harvey) were present and had demos - I liked the CT6 (neutral tuning I think); JH16 was kind of fun when rocking out but I like the JH13's FR more.

 

[iamresumes]

any futher ES5 impression ?@@!!??
vocal
etc ?

 

[cooperpwc]

Iamresumes, the vocals are one of the great revelations for me coming from the Triple-fi's. I knew that the Trips had recessed mids but it wasn't until I heard how good forward, warm, full vocals could sound with an IEM that I realised what I have been missing. (And I still think that the Trips are darn good universal IEMs having heard many.)
 
Sadly I am going to be holding off on more detailed observations for quite some time. My ES5 are comfortable and sound great but they are just a bit too loose, especially on the right side where outside noise increases greatly when I open my mouth and I also can lose the seal when I grin. (And the ES5s make me do that.)
 
With a heavy heart I sent them back today to have them enlarged. The Shanghai-HK-USA return trip means I probably won't have them back for some three weeks. It is very frustrating because they are such a pleasure to listen to but I am tired of fiddling with them in my ears and I think that it is worth the effort and patience to get a tight perfect fit.
 
There are however others out there that also have them. Hopefully they will chime in soon.

 

[Anaxilus]

Welcome to the forward, warm, full vocals club!  

 

[Kunlun]

I wrote Westone and asked if they'd do a multi-driver bass version of the ES5 like other companies have done.
Here's their answer:
 
Thank you for your e-mail. We do not plan on releasing an ES5 with a dual bass driver option. We have done a great deal of research and experimentation and have simply decided against it. What we found is that a dual bass driver unit will present a 2 to 3 db increase in the 40 to 100 hz range if the device that it is plugged into is turned up to at least 75% max volume. On the other hand, we have found that a dual bass driver unit occupies a lot more space in the ear. As result of this, the dual bass driver setup calls for two smaller drivers to cover lower frequencies. With just one driver, we have the ability to make it a larger speaker which is better at handling lower frequencies then two smaller drivers working together (as the two drivers can still only cover a certain amount of very low frequencies and can sound a bit muddy at times).  All of this being said, the ES5 does have a very healthy bass response and is enjoyed by many of our customers. I hope this answers your question. Please let me know if I can further assist you in any way.

Thank you,

 
[size=medium]Kyle Harris[/size]

 

[goodvibes]

Quote:

 
Yes, reading the review is best. While the ES5 did come in first by half a point over the JH16, the ES5 was rated two whole points below the JH16 for bass and two and half points below the UE18 for bass. So, I don't think one should read only the words and not look at the numerical rating, as the reviewer is clearly telling us something with his ratings. The reviewer clearly liked the ES5 very much, but bass was its weakest aspect, following the others rather than leading.
 


 

Did he really use a $79 usb headphone DAC off a pc to definitively compare $1000 customs? Take it with a grain of salt. He may very well have heard some sibilance but probably not due to the jh13. I haven't heard the Westone so I can't compare or comment other than to say it already has 5 drivers. What's one more? I think the JH13 is more accurate than the 16 so I already don't agree with his findings on products that I've heard but for noisey environments like onstage etc. you tend to mask bass and too much becomes just right. There's room for Westone to make a bass enhanced model.

 

[Kunlun]

 
Quote:

I wrote Westone and asked if they'd do a multi-driver bass version of the ES5 like other companies have done.
Here's their answer:
 
Thank you for your e-mail. We do not plan on releasing an ES5 with a dual bass driver option. We have done a great deal of research and experimentation and have simply decided against it. What we found is that a dual bass driver unit will present a 2 to 3 db increase in the 40 to 100 hz range if the device that it is plugged into is turned up to at least 75% max volume. On the other hand, we have found that a dual bass driver unit occupies a lot more space in the ear. As result of this, the dual bass driver setup calls for two smaller drivers to cover lower frequencies. With just one driver, we have the ability to make it a larger speaker which is better at handling lower frequencies then two smaller drivers working together (as the two drivers can still only cover a certain amount of very low frequencies and can sound a bit muddy at times).  All of this being said, the ES5 does have a very healthy bass response and is enjoyed by many of our customers. I hope this answers your question. Please let me know if I can further assist you in any way.

Thank you,

 
" style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0,0,102)">Kyle Harris

As a follow-up, Mr. Harris also let me know that there are no universal fit ES5 models (as there are with JHaudio) for people to try before they order customs. How did people listen to the ES5 at CanJam? Also, he said there are no westone dealers in New York City.
 
When I go to customs, I'll be looking elsewhere!
 

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

As a follow-up, Mr. Harris also let me know that there are no universal fit ES5 models (as there are with JHaudio) for people to try before they order customs. How did people listen to the ES5 at CanJam? Also, he said there are no westone dealers in New York City.
 
When I go to customs, I'll be looking elsewhere!
 

There was at least one, and I did listen to it.  Maybe he means they just don't send universals to their dealers to use as demos.