[ericp10]

I will just add this: Don't get hung up on tiers. Two iems can be of the same tier, but doesn't mean they're equal in technical capability and sound quality. There are several top tier iems, for example, that I and and other experienced iem users like more, less or better than the other ones for a variety of reasons. I think we may all agree more on what is and isn't top tier than we would agree on which is better or has the best sound. With that said, yes, I would say that the Copper is a top tier iem just as the W4 is. Does that make the Copper equal to the W4 to my ears? No, not at all. Fun sound or not, if you want the best performing technical or best performing iem between the two there's no question in my mind that you should go with the W4.
Quote:

The posts have really been helpful and have gone a long way to making my decision, but I still have a few more questions.
 
1) Are the coppers in the same tier as the westone 4s? I am mostly content with the way my IEMs sound, but I would really like a portable upgrade. I'm not sure the update to $400 Westones is worth it concidering I got my Coppers for $250.
 
2) What genres are best with the W4s? I am a big metal head, are great for metal and hard rock or do you recommend another IEM?
 
3) I have a iBasso T3 amp. What amp do you reccomend to pair with the W4s.

 

 

[milkpowder]

i agree with your analysis. the SR325i inho does have a more visceral attack though,and with the right pads and amplification wont sound as peaky. the W4 certainly have a more 'neutral' sound though. guitars simply sound fantastically forward and metallic on the sr325i. 
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I prefer the W4s over the SR325s by a good margin. Deeper bass, great mids and treble that isn't overly bright/peaky. Sound stage wise, I give the W4s the advantage as well.
 

 

 

[WisdomListens]

A question for the people who own the digiZoid ZO: besides the bass improvement, does the ZO improve the overall sound of the W4's? With classical music specifically. Is there an option on the ZO to have no bass enhancement but still help the overall sound?
 
 
Thanks,
Patrick

 

[i2ehan]

If I may, even at the lowest setting, the Zo adds weight/body across the spectrum, where you can really begin to feel each note to a slightly greater extent; that extent varies based on which setting is chosen. At the zero setting, the Zo adds only a slight gain, without any bass enhancement. Beyond that point (between settings 1 through 32) is where the Zo really improves the bass. Otherwise, with the settings off altogether, the Zo functions as any other amp would.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

i agree with your analysis. the SR325i inho does have a more visceral attack though,and with the right pads and amplification wont sound as peaky. the W4 certainly have a more 'neutral' sound though. guitars simply sound fantastically forward and metallic on the sr325i. 


 

I tried pretty much all Grado pads and my amp was the MAD Ear+HD (and almost every 5751 or 12AX7 tube available) and I still found them too peaky to my ears.
 

 

[milkpowder]

Hmmm... still quite veiled, especially/mainly the lower midrange.  There's far too much bloom.  The upper midrange and highs are absolutely beautiful (great attack & decay, crystal clear, not a hint of grain), as are all the minute microdetails.  Almost all orchestral music have this bloom in the lower midrange.  My PureSound eartips are coming tomorrow, but I'm honestly not expecting wonders.  Thing is, I doubt there's another universal IEM out there that is capable of reproducing the same level of detail, and I'm a bit of a detail freak.  The soundstage is also spectacular, but... but the bloom, the veil.  Oh this is painful.  Every time I put the W4 it takes me at least 5-10 minutes to acclimatise to the sound signature, and this should not be.  I want to hear an overall tonal balance similar to in real life.  Could it be the relatively narrow/short sound tube?  The acute angle it makes with the housing?  With synthesized/electronic sound, the tonal balance doesn't matter as much, but most of what I listen to is acoustic and don't go through a lot of electronic processing.  I realise I'm being very critical, but I've already sung high praises in previous posts.

 

[WisdomListens]

Quote:

Hmmm... still quite veiled, especially/mainly the lower midrange.  There's far too much bloom.  The upper midrange and highs are absolutely beautiful (great attack & decay, crystal clear, not a hint of grain), as are all the minute microdetails.  Almost all orchestral music have this bloom in the lower midrange.  My PureSound eartips are coming tomorrow, but I'm honestly not expecting wonders.  Thing is, I doubt there's another universal IEM out there that is capable of reproducing the same level of detail, and I'm a bit of a detail freak.  The soundstage is also spectacular, but... but the bloom, the veil.  Oh this is painful.  Every time I put the W4 it takes me at least 5-10 minutes to acclimatise to the sound signature, and this should not be.  I want to hear an overall tonal balance similar to in real life.  Could it be the relatively narrow/short sound tube?  The acute angle it makes with the housing?  With synthesized/electronic sound, the tonal balance doesn't matter as much, but most of what I listen to is acoustic and don't go through a lot of electronic processing.  I realise I'm being very critical, but I've already sung high praises in previous posts.

Yes, you are being very critical.

 

[milkpowder]

I guess it's because I used to go to concerts on a weekly basis, play the violin/piano myself, and have over the years sampled a range of different audio gear.  It's difficult to beat the experience of a live performance, but I'm pretty sure it's possible to recreate most of it in the confines of our own homes.  Having been out of the Head-Fi loop for about two-three years due to a shift of focus in my life - getting through the last few years of med school, investing more money into photography, spending time with people I love, briefly went into putting together a pretty decent TEAC Esoteric/Chord/JMLabs rig with my parents, I was hoping to rediscover the magic of headphone listening.  I still remember vividly the HE60, SR-Lambda Signature, SR-007, MDR-R10, K1000 which I once adored, and also my ACS T2 which are in need of a recable.  All stunning-sounding gear, while not without their shortcomings, each was (in the right set up) capable of transporting the magic of recordings right into your ears.  And what a journey it has been.  In many ways the best of headphones are capable of creating a window into the live performances.  For me the W4 falls short, IMHO plagued by the lacklustre performance around the 150-250Hz range (rough estimate), but perhaps I'm asking too much from a 300 quid earphone.  Perhaps I need to jump onto the custom IEM wagon again, but not until I really give the W4 a thorough testing.  After all, it's only been eight days since I took delivery of it.  I do realise that earphones have advanced in the last two-three years though.  I don't think this level of resolution and realistic reproduction of ambient cues was possible in a universal earphone regardless of price, dynamic or BA.  I'm just going through my three (!!!) versions of Jazz at the Pawnshop.  The definition of the attack in the upper midrange is nothing short of sensational.  The lower midrange does mask the attack slightly, but if one listens carefully... wow.  It reminds me of the HE60's attack, yet the Sennheiser takes it even further with even sharper imaging.  I'd go so far as to say that in some technical respects this Westone beats the custom IEM that I owned.  For that very reason, the W4 is mighty impressive. 

 

[milkpowder]

An observation:  Shorter tips tend to have a cleaner midrange response, but the highs are a tad sibilant.  A fan of a sound signature that leans on the brighter/leaner side, if I think it's sibilant, I'm pretty sure 99% of the population will think so too Longer tips emphasis the mids, bring warmth to the table, but also the veil.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

An observation:  Shorter tips tend to have a cleaner midrange response, but the highs are a tad sibilant.  A fan of a sound signature that leans on the brighter/leaner side, if I think it's sibilant, I'm pretty sure 99% of the population will think so too Longer tips emphasis the mids, bring warmth to the table, but also the veil.

The size of the aperture also comes in to play.  Small bores versus large bores can make a big difference.  I don't know if you realize but most of us IEM users have bag loads of tips of various sizes, shapes and materials.  It's almost imperative for getting the best sound out of your phones.  Very few of us ever achieve that w/ the stock tips that come w/ the phones.  If we do it's usually with a different make and model of phone.
 

 

[milkpowder]

I wonder how the UM65 will sound with these.  There's no doubt I'm tempted by them, but it's all too apparent to me that good fit does not necessarily translate into the best sound.  Like you say, the gauge of the bore also plays an important part, as do other factors.  I have no doubt my tips collection will grow exponentially in diversity with the passing of time!

 

[javahut]

IMO, you have to use either the double flange tips from Sensorcom or possibly Earsonics...the ones with the wide sound bore, or optimally... the PureSound tips to get the most out of the W4. Any other tips will veil the sound the W4s are capable of. The double flanges even have a veiled sound compared to the PureSound tips. I think you will be surprised at the difference the PureSound tips make. I was. Whether it will make the exact difference you want in the 150-250 hz range, I don't know. Probably not.

 

[ubercaffeinated]

you can say that again. i've got such a large collection of tips building up. i'm liking the large p series comply tips for now - will compare against large shure olives and the puresound sensorcom tips when i get them.
 
Quote:

I wonder how the UM65 will sound with these.  There's no doubt I'm tempted by them, but it's all too apparent to me that good fit does not necessarily translate into the best sound.  Like you say, the gauge of the bore also plays an important part, as do other factors.  I have no doubt my tips collection will grow exponentially in diversity with the passing of time!

 

 

[ericp10]

I agree, as good as the W4, you do have to become re-acclimated to its sound signature after having not listened to it for awhile.

 

[james444]

Quote:

Hmmm... still quite veiled, especially/mainly the lower midrange.  There's far too much bloom.  The upper midrange and highs are absolutely beautiful (great attack & decay, crystal clear, not a hint of grain), as are all the minute microdetails.  Almost all orchestral music have this bloom in the lower midrange.  My PureSound eartips are coming tomorrow, but I'm honestly not expecting wonders.  Thing is, I doubt there's another universal IEM out there that is capable of reproducing the same level of detail, and I'm a bit of a detail freak.  The soundstage is also spectacular, but... but the bloom, the veil.  Oh this is painful.  Every time I put the W4 it takes me at least 5-10 minutes to acclimatise to the sound signature, and this should not be.  I want to hear an overall tonal balance similar to in real life.  Could it be the relatively narrow/short sound tube?  The acute angle it makes with the housing?  With synthesized/electronic sound, the tonal balance doesn't matter as much, but most of what I listen to is acoustic and don't go through a lot of electronic processing.  I realise I'm being very critical, but I've already sung high praises in previous posts.

 
Quote:

An observation:  Shorter tips tend to have a cleaner midrange response, but the highs are a tad sibilant.  A fan of a sound signature that leans on the brighter/leaner side, if I think it's sibilant, I'm pretty sure 99% of the population will think so too Longer tips emphasis the mids, bring warmth to the table, but also the veil.

I've said it here before, I believe the W4's short sound tube is (at least partly) responsible for the veil that some folks are experiencing. IME tips with soft stems/tubes (e.g. silicons) are no-go with the W4, I recommend using tips with solid tubes instead. I get good results with reversed Shure Olives, but I guess any other tips with solid tubes will work similarly well.
 
Regrading your doubts, I think the Sony EX1000 are perfectly on par with the W4 regarding detail and offer more clarity and a different presentation that I prefer with orchestral music. Final Audio's FI-BA-SS are the epitome of clarity among the universals I've heard and at least equal in detail to the W4, but silly expensive. Their much cheaper FI-BA-A1 siblings also surpass the W4 in clarity, yet may fall just a tiny bit short in detail. (Nevertheless, at their current price of £150 from iheadphones UK, they're one of the best bang/buck IEMs out there IMO.)