[tacitapproval]

Also, I believe the LODs that were sold on ebay have smt niobium capacitors within the dock casing. Thus, not visible like the electrolytics.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacitapproval /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, I believe the LODs that were sold on ebay have smt niobium capacitors within the dock casing. Thus, not visible like the electrolytics.

Those are AVX OxiCap, I believe. Those are really expensive caps actually. I bought a pair for making LOD but end up not using (already have too many LOD).

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....Lets toss the discussion on whether LO and HO is the same or not plus the sound quality of Griffin dock aside first, and assume LO from Griffin dock sounds the same as HO, then the question can be simply turned into whether adding an amp help HD650 performs better.....

Hey Clie

Let's try this again.

I tried to be very careful with my wording but forums are a difficult venue.

I'm not talking about the "sound quality" of the Griffin dock, the LOD or the HPO. I didn't want to go there.

I was talking about their respective "volume levels" only.

It is well known and I'm sure we can both agree that the "volume level" of the LO and 100% on the HPO are the same.

I read Uncle Erik's post, but it doesn't really apply to what I'm talking about. He's talking about driving a car on a curvy road fast enough for a finely tuned suspension to make a difference. I am talking about driving that same road at a speed that doesn't require a finely tuned suspension.

I have good hearing and I don't need to listen loudly. I'm not over stressing or "pushing" the Fuze in any way, nor am I asking it to drive the 650s past 70% of the Fuze's maximum volume.

So what I said was that I usually listen (when I use my 650's) at around 70% of full volume from the Fuze's HPO. I stated that that was loud enough for enjoyable listening. I went on to say that I occasionally use a Griffin dock with a headphone amp and what I discovered was that if I adjusted the amp (from the Dock) to a comfortable listening level, and then re-pluged the headphones into the HPO from the Fuze (at 100%), the Fuze was playing considerably louder than the amp from the dock was. So my question was, in that frame of reference, was there any advantage to using the amp as an attenuator rather than using 70% of the HPO? Minor variations aside, the treble was just as clear and the bass just as defined and controlled either way.

This, of course, doesn't apply any more when I want to listen louder. Then adding an amp will help HD650 perform better.

USG

My Latest Toy:

And For FM Radio

YMMV

 

[ClieOS]

Actually, I am still not very sure about the difference in each situation, but I know this: if you can't tell any difference b/w Fuze HO @ 70% and Griffin dock + amp at the same SPL, then the only logical conclusion is of course that the Griffin dock + amp offer not meaningful advantage to you in that situation. Under such conclusion and for the goal of simplicity, the dock + amp shouldn't need to be used.

Not sure if this is the answer you're looking for, but that's how I make out of it.

 

[Woody469]

I use an amp so that I can hear better sound at "lower" volumes.

I am not going for louder. I am shooting for better ,ie deeper bass, more depth, etc. Mostly I stay away from loud.....mostly.
Driving power hungry headphones (properly) require juice. More than the headphone out can provide.
That little Fiio E3 is a perfect example. With many headphones, the amp (E3) doesn't help the sound play (much) louder but usually makes the music sound at least a little better. Sometimes it can make a profound difference. Of course it (the Fiio) is not sufficient for hungry headphones but usually works well with efficient iems.
Everyone agree?

BTW Right now I am in the process of comparing a modified dock (with caps) to an unmodified dock (stock)
Simply no comparison. The modified dock kills the unmodified dock in "every" way.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woody469 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I use an amp so that I can hear better sound at "lower" volumes. I am not going for louder. I am shooting for better ,ie deeper bass, more depth, etc. Mostly I stay away from loud.....mostly. Driving power hungry headphones (properly) require juice. More than the headphone out can provide. That little Fiio E3 is a perfect example. With many headphones, the amp (E3) doesn't help the sound play (much) louder but usually makes the music sound at least a little better. Sometimes it can make a profound difference. Of course it (the Fiio) is not sufficient for hungry headphones but usually works well with efficient iems. Everyone agree? BTW Right now I am in the process of comparing a modified dock (with caps) to an unmodified dock (stock) Simply no comparison. The modified dock kills the unmodified dock in "every" way.

Woody,

If you are experiencing a deeper, more pronounced bass, I think you are, never the less, hearing a volume increase.

An amplifier can't make more bass than there is in the original signal, all it can do is amplify it, (which by definition is: make it louder). As you go louder, you need more power to control the bass and prevent clipping, but we are talking about low level headphone listening, right?

Regarding the caps Vs no caps, do you mean in the LODs ClieOS made?

USG

 

[Woody469]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Woody, If you are experiencing a deeper, more pronounced bass, I think you are, never the less, hearing a volume increase. An amplifier can't make more bass than there is in the original signal, all it can do is amplify it, (which by definition is: make it louder). As you go louder, you need more power to control the bass and prevent clipping, but we are talking about low level headphone listening, right? Regarding the caps Vs no caps, do you mean in the LODs ClieOS made? USG

Well, thats not completely true. Amplification is "mistakenly" almost always used "incorrectly" to define "loudness"
In fact, the definition of amplification is:
Electricity. increase in the strength of current, voltage, or power.
See also Dynamic Headroom:
–noun Audio. the additional power output capability of an amplifier when producing short-term peak signals, compared with its continuous-signal power rating.
Nothing about loudness there.
So yes, quality amplification even for low level listening is extremely important.
No, I am referring to the Fuze dock. Like the one you have.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, I am still not very sure about the difference in each situation, but I know this: if you can't tell any difference b/w Fuze HO @ 70% and Griffin dock + amp at the same SPL, then the only logical conclusion is of course that the Griffin dock + amp offer not meaningful advantage to you in that situation. Under such conclusion and for the goal of simplicity, the dock + amp shouldn't need to be used. Not sure if this is the answer you're looking for, but that's how I make out of it.

However, if someone wants to use the dock as a stand for the Fuze, they will need an amp to control the volume.

In that regard, do you know anybody developing a mod for the Griffin dock that would improve the sound and still allow a heads up display of the screen. I find the stand up dock-charger-player concept very good for parking the Fuze on a desk while connecting it to a computer, amp or powered speakers.

USG

Like this:

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woody469 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, thats not completely true. Amplification is "mistakenly" almost always used "incorrectly" to define "loudness" In fact, the definition of amplification is: Electricity. increase in the strength of current, voltage, or power. See also Dynamic Headroom: –noun Audio. the additional power output capability of an amplifier when producing short-term peak signals, compared with its continuous-signal power rating. Nothing about loudness there. So yes, quality amplification even for low level listening is extremely important. No, I am referring to the Fuze dock. Like the one you have.

My, my, my.... getting fussy with our definitions are we....from Dictionary.com

am⋅pli⋅fy
  /ˈæmpləˌfaɪ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [am-pluh-fahy] Show IPA verb, -fied, -fy⋅ing.
Use amplify in a Sentence
See web results for amplify
See images of amplify
–verb (used with object)
1. to make larger, greater, or stronger; enlarge; extend.
2. to expand in stating or describing, as by details or illustrations; clarify by expanding.
3. Electricity. to increase the amplitude of; cause amplification in.
4. Archaic. to exaggerate.


And From merriam-webster

Main Entry: am·pli·fy
Pronunciation: \-ˌfī\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): am·pli·fied; am·pli·fy·ing
Etymology: Middle English amplifien, from Middle French amplifier, from Latin amplificare, from amplus
Date: 15th century

transitive verb 1 : to expand (as a statement) by the use of detail or illustration or by closer analysis
2 a : to make larger or greater (as in amount, importance, or intensity) : increase b : to increase the strength or amount of; especially : to make louder

Hey I'm a layman

Besides, everyone knows when you turn the amplifier up it gets louder.

It may "increase in the strength of current, voltage, or power" to do it, but in the end, it just gets louder.

USG

 

[Woody469]

You know, we are going to get a thrashing from ClieOS for being (somewhat) off topic

I'm sorry but I don't understand the question.
I am using the dock (like in your picture) but with a different amp obviously.
What I was saying is the modified dock sounds much better.
I try to keep the volumes the same but my Radio Shack Digital Sound Level Meter doesn't give accurate results placed near headphones.
Do you have a special volume matching solution to share?

 

[Woody469]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif My, my, my.... getting fussy with our definitions area we....from Dictionary.com am⋅pli⋅fy   /ˈæmpləˌfaɪ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [am-pluh-fahy] Show IPA verb, -fied, -fy⋅ing. Use amplify in a Sentence See web results for amplify See images of amplify –verb (used with object) 1. to make larger, greater, or stronger; enlarge; extend. 2. to expand in stating or describing, as by details or illustrations; clarify by expanding. 3. Electricity. to increase the amplitude of; cause amplification in. 4. Archaic. to exaggerate. And From merriam-webster Main Entry: am·pli·fy Pronunciation: \-ˌfī\ Function: verb Inflected Form(s): am·pli·fied; am·pli·fy·ing Etymology: Middle English amplifien, from Middle French amplifier, from Latin amplificare, from amplus Date: 15th century transitive verb 1 : to expand (as a statement) by the use of detail or illustration or by closer analysis 2 a : to make larger or greater (as in amount, importance, or intensity) : increase b : to increase the strength or amount of; especially : to make louder Hey I'm a layman Besides, everyone knows when you turn the amplifier up it gets louder. It may "increase in the strength of current, voltage, or power" to do it, but in the end, it just gets louder. USG

Hey why so nasty. I hear what you are saying but to think an amplifier "only" makes the sound louder is unfair (to yourself)
If that were true, why would some amplifiers meant for the consumer market cost upwards of say 8 thousand dollars when it can be done for one hundred dollars?
The bottom line is an amplifier does more than just make a sound louder. An amplifier can bring to the forefront small details that would otherwise be missed. Anyway, if you are going to flame, talk to yourself.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woody469 /img/forum/go_quote.gif You know, we are going to get a thrashing from ClieOS for being (somewhat) off topic I'm sorry but I don't understand the question. I am using the dock (like in your picture) but with a different amp obviously. What I was saying is the modified dock sounds much better. I try to keep the volumes the same but my Radio Shack Digital Sound Level Meter doesn't give accurate results placed near headphones. Do you have a special volume matching solution to share?

The hole in the cardboard method.... we're really off topic now, so do a search for the full description.

USG

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woody469 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey why so nasty. I hear what you are saying but to think an amplifier "only" makes the sound louder is unfair (to yourself) If that were true, why would some amplifiers meant for the consumer market cost upwards of say 8 thousand dollars when it can be done for one hundred dollars? The bottom line is an amplifier does more than just make a sound louder. An amplifier can bring to the forefront small details that would otherwise be missed. Anyway, if you are going to flame, talk to yourself.

Did I say something nasty?

Edit: I wanted to ask you if you were going to make it to the NY meet on Nov 14th? Most of the "New England Crew" is going to be there.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif In that regard, do you know anybody developing a mod for the Griffin dock that would improve the sound and still allow a heads up display of the screen. I find the stand up dock-charger-player concept very good for parking the Fuze on a desk while connecting it to a computer, amp or powered speakers.

That won't be too difficult. First you want to avoid the line-out portion in the dock by using better wire (as aluminum wire is general considered not ideal due to its relatively high impedance compared to copper or silver) and better caps. Then you can power the dock via a USB power adapter. Power is of course needed to make sure Fuze is charged up all the time in the dock, but it also helps trigger the line-out function w/o the need of further modding. With the power supply, Fuze's screen can also stay on as a display.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif That won't be too difficult. First you want to avoid the line-out portion in the dock by using better wire (as aluminum wire is general considered not ideal due to its relatively high impedance compared to copper or silver) and better caps. Then you can power the dock via a USB power adapter. Power is of course needed to make sure Fuze is charged up all the time in the dock, but it also helps trigger the line-out function w/o the need of further modding. With the power supply, Fuze's screen can also stay on as a display.

What about caps and resistors? There is a lot of room inside to put stuff.

USG