[Ichos]

They sound exactly the same.
So for your case go for V200 or RS02 if you need more sparkle and speed with a little loss in body.

 

[project86]

There are some minor changes to the amp circuit, plus power supply differences etc. So in theory there could be an audible difference even for single ended listening.

Personally, I've always felt using V281 single ended does in fact sound a bit more neutral, quick, and airy than V200. But I would not recommend the added cost just for that minor difference. Balanced is a whole different experience and really the only way to fully enjoy V281.

 

[Pharmaboy]

So single ended the V281 / V280 and the V200 are similar? I don't intend to re-terminate my headphones so V200 would be a good option I guess. Unless single ended on V281 / V280 provides a leap in sound quality?

Before getting my own V281, I read many contradictory comments about its sound, SE vs balanced. Some people claimed a huge, easily heard difference in favor of balanced; others felt there was a small difference, but still good sound w/SE.

I'm in the latter camp. I do most listening on the V281 using balanced headphones & cables--but every now & then I try SE & get the same wonderful V281 sound I'm familiar with, just a little less ballistic in terms of dymamics & soundstage.

Then again, the V281 has dynamics & soundstage to spare.

 

[Fegefeuer]

V281 SE is different to the V200 indeed. Superior too.

 

[Ichos]

I don't know for 281 but comparing my V280 single ended with V200 at my home I couldn't tell a difference.

 

[AudioPowerHead]

Very interesting discussion.

If the SQ on SE for V281/V280 is supposed to be the same, theoretically it should either be V281/V280=V200 or V281/V280 >V200.

I’m seeing feedback of V281>V200 while V280=V200. Somehow the equation does not hang together. I know this hobby is subjective.

I remember reading Fried mentioning somewhere that “V200 amp tech” is already at its summit and this “V200 amp tech” is very much inherent in the design of V281/280, so while there could be very subtle but noticeable sound improvements due to implementation changes in analogue circuit, power treatments etc, the V281/280’s key strength IMHO is its balanced output addition. For anyone wanting to use only SE should just get the V200.

 

[paul30d]

I’m seeing feedback of V281>V200 while V280=V200. Somehow the equation does not hang together. I know this hobby is subjective.

I was wondering about that too. I have the V281, so it's a bit academic. But it seems to me is that hard-to-drive headphones with a balanced connection to the v281 or v280 would be better than an SE connection to a v200. But an easy-to-drive headphone might sound the same on a v281 and v200. But having never heard a v200 I would not really know.

 

[Kozwoz]

Anyone here tried the LCD4 with the V281 in single ended? Couldn't get an answer over at the V200 thread with this matching. Wondering if either amp in single ended would have enough power to drive the LCD4 at 200 Ohm. As stated before would prefer not to go balanced for the sake of the V281.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Anyone here tried the LCD4 with the V281 in single ended? Couldn't get an answer over at the V200 thread with this matching. Wondering if either amp in single ended would have enough power to drive the LCD4 at 200 Ohm. As stated before would prefer not to go balanced for the sake of the V281.

Never heard an LCD-4. I have a V281 & every now & then try it in S.E. mode. I did that w/LCD-3 once, if memory serves; also once w/my pre-fazor LCD-2.1; also once (at least) with the ZMF Ori, a power-hog planar that requires way more power than any other headphone I've had in my system. Zero problem with power for any of them.

I've also driven all these same headphones (and others) very well via an excellent Violectric-designed single-ended amp, the Lake People G109-A (which has somewhat less power than the V281). Again, no problem at all w/sufficient power.

Ignorant question: what's stopping you from considering a balanced connection? The LCD-4 is a big-league headphone that may well sound incrementally better via balanced connection to a quality balanced amp like the V281. If you have a balanced amp, or if you end up getting one, I would think it's a logical upgrade path to at least try balanced connection.

Good balanced cables for Audeze/ZMF headphones cost $$, of course. The least expensive good cable I know is by Periapt. You could get a 2M balanced cable for these headphones for under $100. I have 2 balanced Periapt cables and they get the job done. And if you were willing to spend 2-3X that, you could get a killer cable.

 

[Malcolm Riverside]

Anyone here tried the LCD4 with the V281 in single ended? Couldn't get an answer over at the V200 thread with this matching. Wondering if either amp in single ended would have enough power to drive the LCD4 at 200 Ohm. As stated before would prefer not to go balanced for the sake of the V281.

I’d say that if you have a V281, commit to maximizing the potential of the amp and go balanced, no matter what headphones you’re using with it. I think anyone who has spent time with the amp will tell you it sounds better in balanced mode as that’s how it was designed. If you’re committed to single-ended cables it’s probably wiser to go all in on an amp that excels with that output and has lots of power—like a Pass Labs HPA-1—to run your LCD-4. And I’m with @Pharmaboy; compared to the cost of an LCD-4 and the sonic improvements it can offer with a V281, it’s relatively inexpensive to buy a quality balanced cable. You don’t have to spend a grand to see worthwhile sonic improvements.

 

[Kozwoz]

Everyone here will think me mad for wanting to go the V200 route. This is a case that I prefer the tonality. The V281 in balanced is more neutral, accurate, detailed and powerful. But the V200 tonality is what I'm after, it has slightly rolled off treble, a smoother presentation, a fuller bodied punchier low end. I find the LCD4 a tad bright at times when listening to electronic music and I love my bass. The fact that its going to be a bit less detailed as a result of acquired tonality is a tradeoff I'm willing to accept. I guess I could get V281 and always have the option to go either balanced or single ended. I understand some here think that V281 in SE is the V200 as its the same amp.

A couple more questions... anyone here using the V281 as pre-amp to studio monitors? What I want to know is does the V281 add it's own character to the output signal or is it literally passing through the DAC signal being fed unaltered? I wouldn't mind adding a bit of character to my flat studio monitors. Or at least have that option.

 

[Fegefeuer]

What DAC are you using?

 

[Kozwoz]

What DAC are you using?

Benchmark DAC3 HGC. The amp section on the DAC3 isn't great. Sounds a bit thin at times with power hungry cans but it does have great resolution. It does do something special to my Shure 846 that I've heard no other amp do though, its an amazing combo if anyone gets a chance. As a DAC though it is very good and detail retrieval is up there with something like Chord Hugo but provides better flexibility with 3 analogue outs and 2 in and usb obviously and acts as pre-amp.. Currently run the DAC3 out into 2 pairs of studio monitors and one sub each on individual output on the back. It has one XLR out and 2 RCA out.

So I could do XLR out on DAC3 to XLR in on the V281 and then run the the XLR out on V281 to my mid field studio monitors but this would probably give me a different sound to the Benchmark DAC3 out straight to my main monitors. I imagine V281 wouldn't give me the same reference quality sound the Benchmark DAC3 does as pre-amp but possibly something a bit warmer and musical?

 

[RobertSM]

I use V281 as a preamp to a studio level Genelec 8350a speaker. The speakers are tuned to be absolutely flat.

I believe the V281 in this configuration doesn't add it's own character in terms of frequency response. What I would say it adds it's dynamic nature. It's wide and deep soundstage.

I've actually done frequency spectrum measurements using the very powerful Gelelec GLM hardware and software kit. I've measured from my DAC (DAC V850) straight out to the speakers. I've also measured DAC to V281 to speakers. The results have been very very little change from one to another. My speakers also do a AD-->DA conversation. With all of this back and forth and the signal being treated twice and ran through V281 I see very little changes. Again, the sonic impact being increased soundstage depth and height and increased dynamic performance.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Everyone here will think me mad for wanting to go the V200 route. This is a case that I prefer the tonality. The V281 in balanced is more neutral, accurate, detailed and powerful. But the V200 tonality is what I'm after, it has slightly rolled off treble, a smoother presentation, a fuller bodied punchier low end. I find the LCD4 a tad bright at times when listening to electronic music and I love my bass. The fact that its going to be a bit less detailed as a result of acquired tonality is a tradeoff I'm willing to accept. I guess I could get V281 and always have the option to go either balanced or single ended. I understand some here think that V281 in SE is the V200 as its the same amp.

A couple more questions... anyone here using the V281 as pre-amp to studio monitors? What I want to know is does the V281 add it's own character to the output signal or is it literally passing through the DAC signal being fed unaltered? I wouldn't mind adding a bit of character to my flat studio monitors. Or at least have that option.

I've used the V281 as system preamp since the day I got it. During that time, I've had 2 pairs of powered monitors; followed by 2 pairs of high quality passive speakers/monitors, for which I use a powerful class D amp (Wyred 4 Sound ST-500). Including the V281, have 3 HP amp/preamps to compare in preamp mode...which I did casually, not lots of time & effort (V281; Audio GD SA-31SE; M Stage Matrix HPA-1). I also have a nice-sounding, inexpensive passive volume controller/preamp I used to use F.T., and used for test purposes now & then in this system (NHT PVC-1). With all that, here's what I conclude:

1. All 4 units used as preamp sound quite good to me. Each sounds slightly different (not unexpectedly), but I could live w/any of them. Note that each HP amp/preamp unit sounds just like itself whether used as preamp or HP amp (meaning their preamp circuits are as well implemented as their amplification circuits)
   • All active preamps add some character (however slight) to the output signal. Still, I prefer active preamps by a very wide margin to high $$ passive controllers, which I've also tried (and hated)
2. The V281 is my clear favorite of the group--I love its sound both as amp & preamp (very dynamic; expansive soundstaging for a SS unit; terrific bass in every way; slight warmth, not nearly enough to obscure detail).
   • The musical character of the V281 isn't nearly enough to = EQ. Still, it makes the more neutral of the speakers I've used sound a bit more musical (a welcome effect IMO).
3. V281 is also my favorite because it has the most input/output flexibility I've ever seen in any preamp, including separate gain adjustments (+/- an astounding 14 dB) for headphone output vs preamp output.

Even if I'd never heard the V281 as a headphone amp (it's my favorite there, too)--I would never part with it based on how good it is as a preamp.