USB-C to 3.5mm adapters (DAC) - Let's find the best
Mar 14, 2024 at 4:48 PM Post #6,241 of 6,486
Just to confirm the obvious:
Tried the same experiment with the powered USB hub (pulwtop, minisopuru) And as soon as you pull the power from the USB hub the music shuts down. It is not taking power from the phone , only signal.
So, if the power coming from the wall is being filtered well by the powered USB hub and it's being converted down to 5 volts without adding junk noise and power spikes by the powered USB hub then these should be the way to go.
I'm using a USB C to C cable which has an inline supercapacitor (supposedly) which filters signal fluctuations for my peace of mind.
Confirmation bias is a real thing.

Guys, that battery brick and unpowered hub such as the aceele
Cannot possibly be doing anything. If you don't believe me, try this:
Start listening to a track exactly the way you would... then simply unplug the battery - nothing happens.
All the power AND the signal is coming from the phone as it would if the battery pack is not there.

doesn't matter what order you plug things in or which port you plug it in on the hub. try all the combinations till your heart is content
We just wanted it to be an improvement in sound.
If someone can prove to me that the battery of the phone and the brick are summed together and it gives a larger current swing for those really really hungry dongles that the phone can't supply by itself then I suppose there could be some benefit
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 4:53 PM Post #6,242 of 6,486
I think the fact that nothing changes is normal... after all, since the power bank is missing, the dongle starts to draw from the phone and download it. Try with the RU7 connected (without powerbank) and in 4/5 hours the phone goes to zero battery. Instead, with the powerbank the dongle's absorption goes towards it and the phone's battery doesn't go down in a few hours as happens without a powerbank. In addition to this, the powerbank provides much more current than a normal phone USB port because it was created specifically to provide power. The fact that with the PulWtop/Minisopuru it turns off if you turn off the power is normal because unlike the Aceele it works with 12volts which the phone cannot supply... so it turns off and doesn't work at all.
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 12:58 AM Post #6,243 of 6,486
I don't think It does anything to diminish battery usage from the phone, If so very minimally, but I don't think it does a thing. You would have to play the exact same songs on a loop with all the volume set exactly the same etc etc to do an actual official test but I know the fact that you can unplug the brick and nothing happens would indicate the brick is doing nothing.

Besides that I just tested it to see if it even passes through enough current quickly enough to "fast charge" my Android phone and it can't. .
The throughput is pretty lame from the charging port to any of the four USB C ports.

Test yourselves.

Take your fast charger (of any kind... Plug it directly into your phone such that your Android phone says "fast charging"

Now do the exact same thing, with the aceele hub in between and now stick your phone on any one of the four ports and see if it fast chsrges your phone. You will find that it doesn't. That is pretty poor throughput of power.
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 4:32 AM Post #6,244 of 6,486
I don't think It does anything to diminish battery usage from the phone, If so very minimally, but I don't think it does a thing. You would have to play the exact same songs on a loop with all the volume set exactly the same etc etc to do an actual official test but I know the fact that you can unplug the brick and nothing happens would indicate the brick is doing nothing.

Besides that I just tested it to see if it even passes through enough current quickly enough to "fast charge" my Android phone and it can't. .
The throughput is pretty lame from the charging port to any of the four USB C ports.

Test yourselves.

Take your fast charger (of any kind... Plug it directly into your phone such that your Android phone says "fast charging"

Now do the exact same thing, with the aceele hub in between and now stick your phone on any one of the four ports and see if it fast chsrges your phone. You will find that it doesn't. That is pretty poor throughput of power.
I don't think it's how you write, or at least it isn't in my experience. Just do a test that everyone can do on their own. Charge the phone to 100% and then connect it to the Aceele with powerbank to the RU7 and let it run for four hours, at which point note how much battery is left on the phone. Then you recharge the phone to 100% again and connect it to the RU7 alone (without Aceele and powerbank) and let it run for four hours and you will understand the difference between with and without Aceele and powerbank, it will be enormous. That said, there's no way your phone can charge at high speed connected to the Aceele because the hub doesn't have a fast charging chip inside (that's not its purpose), but if you want something that allows you to charge the phone while the dongle works you can buy the DHifi TC28i even if for me it's not the best to keep the phone charged for the entire time I listen to music with it (4/5 hours).
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 6:30 AM Post #6,245 of 6,486
hc4hd800s.jpg


Thanks to its soft but very detailed sound used as a pure DAC and listening to it with the HD800S the AKHC4 is truly a listening experience with few rivals, it has a much superior synergy even compared to the iBasso DC-Elite with the same configuration. Really excellent!!!
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 11:21 PM Post #6,246 of 6,486
Mar 15, 2024 at 11:27 PM Post #6,247 of 6,486
I have a HD600 (I don’t use it much…) but don’t have these 2 dongles. Based on the spec, either the UA4 or the FC4 should be fine. Contrarily to what is sometime reported, the HD600 is not that difficult to drive as long as your dongle has enough voltage (power is not the issue here) to handle the high impedance (~300-500 Ohm).
A balanced cable would give you an additional margin.

I saw on the HD600 thread that BT may be a consideration and that you’re not necessarily chasing the “absolute best audiophile experience”. Why don’t you get a Qudelix 5K or Fiio BTR15 instead? They can be used as dongle, and the 5K (I have a couple of those) will give you a whole set of additional features to explore with your HD600…

I’m sure others will have different opinion! :ksc75smile:
I agree, the Qudelix-5K has a surprising amount of audio customization. I feel like for the money, it's a solid little DAC.
 
Mar 16, 2024 at 9:41 AM Post #6,248 of 6,486
Astell & Kern AKHC4: a very successful cocktail.

akhc4.jpg

The Astell & Kern dongle presents itself in a very clean way, two buttons for the volume (software) and a selector for the maximum sampling (DAR) which at least for now does not add anything unmissable to the sound... on the contrary. Quite large and solid, it makes a good impression, but let's find out the most important thing... how it sounds. At first it sounded a little strange when it was turned on... it sounded like a mix of various dongles that I own and listen to very often. The sound seemed to consist of very noticeable features found in some of my best dongles. Let's start with the bass... they seem to be those of the M15 in terms of power (really very deep as well as very powerful) and in terms of tone and speed close to those of the RU7... so everything is ok. The mids resemble in every way the splendid mids of the PAW S2... the sound is dense but not heavy, the tonality is very refined and the study of the Astell & Kern engineers in creating a thickness in the notes can be heard in a very distinguishable way which however does not affect its smoothness and naturalness. The highs closely resemble those of the W4, very extended, crystal clear, never offensive but very rich in truly convincing details. However, all of this seemed a bit disjointed... not organic and at times artificial, but after a bit of running in (most likely also my brain) it all became incredibly cohesive and integrated. What I had read about Astell & Kern daps (especially for those with a few years behind them) is absolutely not reflected in this dongle. The very technical sound, bordering on sterility, with little musicality and many technicalities is not at all the sound of this dongle which on the contrary makes musicality and body clearly its main characteristics. Not having listened to other Astell & Kern I can't know if the engineers have changed their priorities in terms of sound, but if they have done so they have chosen exactly the right path. The bass makes the scene very engaging but never overlaps with the other frequencies, the mids give softness and the right amount of warmth and the highs are a magnet for details. A truly excellent dongle, which will surely make those who purchase it happy especially considering that among the top dongles it is perhaps the cheapest one as well as being one of the ones that sounds best. The only weak point is in the amplification which is not at the level of everything else... it will certainly make all your IEMs sound (even the not easy IER-Z1R) but certainly if helped by external amplification it will become completely another thing, I'm not saying it's a bad amplification but it doesn't allow the dongle to shine as it deserves and should. Listened to the RA2BFE it reaches very high levels of performance, doing full justice to the work of the A&K technicians who truly endowed it with a spectacular sound. The comparison with the iBasso DC-Elite can easily be made and not like other dongles where it is absolutely impossible as well as useless. The AKHC4 has a much more prominent bass than the Elite and with comparable extension and quality but the real difference is in the mids and highs. The Astell & Kern has fuller mids with heavier notes, while the Elite moves towards a lighter, thinner, more agile representation and therefore faster and attentive to details and nuances (not that these are lacking in the HC4). The highs, on the other hand, are more evident on the A&K with a comparable recovery of details and an extension of the same level. The difference here is in the greater integration of the highs within the sound spectrum by the Elite which is much less on the HC4. The HC4's soundstage is slightly smaller in width than the Elite, but it is greater in depth, translating the discussion to video level it is as if with the Elite you are watching a film on a 16:9 screen while with the HC4 the screen has a ratio of 4:3. The amplification is certainly to the advantage of the Elite, as is the richness of the sound stage and the synergy compared to the various IEMs is certainly more extensive due to its better balance. Having said this, I consider the Elite superior, but I wouldn't be surprised if out of a group of ten blindfolded listeners at least three (with the right IEMs and their favorite music) might prefer the HC4. This dongle from Astell & Kern is truly a beautiful discovery, unfairly overlooked and not reviewed except by sites that sell it (so reviews so to speak), it certainly deserves a place alongside the best dongles around and very often much more expensive than it and being like a cocktail of their best sonic characteristics mixed by the expert hands of A&K engineers. Well done Astell & Kern!!!
Dude, you better start dividing those long posts into paragraphs! Otherwise, it gets frustrating to read.

Confirmation bias is a real thing.

Guys, that battery brick and unpowered hub such as the aceele
Cannot possibly be doing anything. If you don't believe me, try this:
Start listening to a track exactly the way you would... then simply unplug the battery - nothing happens.
All the power AND the signal is coming from the phone as it would if the battery pack is not there.

doesn't matter what order you plug things in or which port you plug it in on the hub. try all the combinations till your heart is content
We just wanted it to be an improvement in sound.
If someone can prove to me that the battery of the phone and the brick are summed together and it gives a larger current swing for those really really hungry dongles that the phone can't supply by itself then I suppose there could be some benefit there.
Got this HUB from Aliexpess that's supposed to behave similarly to the Aceele. Notice that there are two versions of it - one with 100W PD support for laptop charging and the other is 5V for "power-up", which is supposed to give juice to the connected dongles. That works as described when connected to a PC and I confirmed it with a U25C USB Meter. An Android phone is a different thing altogether. I suppose it's intended to work with phones that support PD and then the phone can charge through the HUB while still being able to recognize the dongle connected to the hub. It doesn't happen with me Realme 8 PRO. I can either charge my phone through the HUB or use it with dongles.

Just to confirm the obvious:
Tried the same experiment with the powered USB hub (pulwtop, minisopuru) And as soon as you pull the power from the USB hub the music shuts down. It is not taking power from the phone , only signal.
So, if the power coming from the wall is being filtered well by the powered USB hub and it's being converted down to 5 volts without adding junk noise and power spikes by the powered USB hub then these should be the way to go.
I'm using a USB C to C cable which has an inline supercapacitor (supposedly) which filters signal fluctuations for my peace of mind.
Validate it with Orico A3H 4 port powered HUB. Works the same as Pulwtop and MiniSopuru.

Can you drop a link for the supercapacitor cable?
I think the fact that nothing changes is normal... after all, since the power bank is missing, the dongle starts to draw from the phone and download it. Try with the RU7 connected (without powerbank) and in 4/5 hours the phone goes to zero battery. Instead, with the powerbank the dongle's absorption goes towards it and the phone's battery doesn't go down in a few hours as happens without a powerbank. In addition to this, the powerbank provides much more current than a normal phone USB port because it was created specifically to provide power. The fact that with the PulWtop/Minisopuru it turns off if you turn off the power is normal because unlike the Aceele it works with 12volts which the phone cannot supply... so it turns off and doesn't work at all.
There's no such thing as a seamless switching from one PS to the other. The music must stop even if for a fraction of a second. What phone do you use?

I don't think It does anything to diminish battery usage from the phone, If so very minimally, but I don't think it does a thing. You would have to play the exact same songs on a loop with all the volume set exactly the same etc etc to do an actual official test but I know the fact that you can unplug the brick and nothing happens would indicate the brick is doing nothing.

Besides that I just tested it to see if it even passes through enough current quickly enough to "fast charge" my Android phone and it can't. .
The throughput is pretty lame from the charging port to any of the four USB C ports.

Test yourselves.

Take your fast charger (of any kind... Plug it directly into your phone such that your Android phone says "fast charging"

Now do the exact same thing, with the aceele hub in between and now stick your phone on any one of the four ports and see if it fast chsrges your phone. You will find that it doesn't. That is pretty poor throughput of power.
This type of HUBs can charge the phone only through its pigtail. The ports don't support charging.

I don't think it's how you write, or at least it isn't in my experience. Just do a test that everyone can do on their own. Charge the phone to 100% and then connect it to the Aceele with powerbank to the RU7 and let it run for four hours, at which point note how much battery is left on the phone. Then you recharge the phone to 100% again and connect it to the RU7 alone (without Aceele and powerbank) and let it run for four hours and you will understand the difference between with and without Aceele and powerbank, it will be enormous. That said, there's no way your phone can charge at high speed connected to the Aceele because the hub doesn't have a fast charging chip inside (that's not its purpose), but if you want something that allows you to charge the phone while the dongle works you can buy the DHifi TC28i even if for me it's not the best to keep the phone charged for the entire time I listen to music with it (4/5 hours).
Or you can get the aforementioned USB meter.
 
Mar 16, 2024 at 9:57 AM Post #6,249 of 6,486
@Hal Rockwell The links you put for the material on Aliexpress don't work for me, I can't see what items they are. As a phone I use the LG V50 and honestly I haven't tried disconnecting the power from the Aceele while it's running... it doesn't make sense to me because I'm satisfied with how it works and I'm fine with it. The phone's battery drains much less, it doesn't receive power and the powerbank supplies power because its battery capacity drops during use, so if the phone doesn't receive it it can only go one way... towards the dongle. The three things I wanted it to do are not make the dongle absorb current from the phone, let me listen to several hours of music without problems and power the dongle with a current that is certainly better and in greater quantities than the phone alone can provide . For less than 20 euros I solved some small problems I had and I would definitely buy it again. The PulWtop is even better.
 
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Mar 16, 2024 at 11:54 AM Post #6,250 of 6,486
Hub brick method :

Refer to this test of hubs (there are many other similar sites but this is brief and explanatory , to some degree).
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-usb-c-hubs-and-docks/

See what they test for - throughout to the ports among the tests. There is significant variance between these top models.
In a YouTube video a reviewer multimeter tested many unpowered hubs: the variation in how much power gets to an attached devices from the usb c was really surprising. Some suck. He also found this company that the Wirecutter test I linked to as being very good ( Anker ?)

This YouTube video



... Again there are others like it that bring up the pertinent issues too.,.
found a USB port dissipated 87 watts (mw?) Of the incoming power to power ITSELF only. That is probably why a fast charging brick that will fast charge a phone attached directly to it will not fast charge (but does charge) the phone with the aceele hub in between - too much power loss .
polky74: "The three things I wanted it to do are not make the dongle absorb current from the phone,"

- I think this is a worthy goal. I want that too, but this is not happening. If you can pull the brick away from the hub while music is playing without a shutdown. the power is coming from the phone and not the brick. If you look at my sources some hubs take a lot of power by the themselves. That is why your brick discharges when you listen to music. It is only powering the hub it, most likely, and the phone is charging the dongle.

I might consider getting a better hub if the iBasso cb19 split USB cable I have on order doesn't work out.
 
Mar 16, 2024 at 12:11 PM Post #6,251 of 6,486
Hub brick method :

Refer to this test of hubs (there are many other similar sites but this is brief and explanatory , to some degree).
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-usb-c-hubs-and-docks/

See what they test for - throughout to the ports among the tests. There is significant variance between these top models.
In a YouTube video a reviewer multimeter tested many unpowered hubs: the variation in how much power gets to an attached devices from the usb c was really surprising. Some suck. He also found this company that the Wirecutter test I linked to as being very good ( Anker ?)

This YouTube video



... Again there are others like it that bring up the pertinent issues too.,.
found a USB port dissipated 87 watts (mw?) Of the incoming power to power ITSELF only. That is probably why a fast charging brick that will fast charge a phone attached directly to it will not fast charge (but does charge) the phone with the aceele hub in between - too much power loss .
polky74: "The three things I wanted it to do are not make the dongle absorb current from the phone,"

- I think this is a worthy goal. I want that too, but this is not happening. If you can pull the brick away from the hub while music is playing without a shutdown. the power is coming from the phone and not the brick. If you look at my sources some hubs take a lot of power by the themselves. That is why your brick discharges when you listen to music. It is only powering the hub it, most likely, and the phone is charging the dongle.

I might consider getting a better hub if the iBasso cb19 split USB cable I have on order doesn't work out.

I think about ordering the CB19 myself. Had other splits before but none of them were that short and good looking. On top of that, their functionality depended on the connected devices.
 
Mar 16, 2024 at 12:29 PM Post #6,254 of 6,486
The c to c cable with supercapacitor inline

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOAlHMS
I put their USB mini on the brick or between USB cable and USB wall power block
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLjrQFM

Using these too:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPR3V8S

https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0TDSS6

If AliExpress has separate US or eng lish site the links might not work
Can you explain to me like i'm 5, what's the purpose of any of that? All this time, i just use my laptop > otg cable > dongle > phone. I understand what's the CB19 cable do. I understand what the Pulwtop hub do. But i have NO idea what any of the stuff you mention does.
Thank you in advance
 
Mar 16, 2024 at 1:36 PM Post #6,255 of 6,486
It's probably overkill.

But I'm trying to provide cleaner power to the dongle.

The same ideas are covered more than you would ever want to read by googling / youtubing something like:
"Do linear power supplies sound better ?"
"Linear power supply versus switching power supply"
In forums

Short video:



Switching power supplies like the USB ones we usually use have noise so a capacitor or supercapacitor bank filters that out for reasons that I don't understand very well.

All of those gadgets I linked to take the power from a battery or a switching mode power supply store it and then let it out with less or no noise as I understand it.
Somebody here with some electrical engineering background would have a lot more to say perhaps they will read this thread and reply
 

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