[monsieurfromag3]

You know at the top , there is a search box for queries on this thread.

Bitperfect is not MQA exclusive. It pertains how ALL audio is processed. Normally Android upsamples ALL audio and resamples to whcih your device supports. This leads to computational errors (that some sensitive ears could hear). Bitperfect option bypasses this process and presents audio as-is to your DAC.

Let me quote the developer which he wrote 4 years ago:

That is a very interesting quote. I often wonder whether Spotify streams are degraded by the Android stack, but there’s no way to ascertain this since UAPP etc. are not allowed to stream Spotify.

I know Spotify files are 320 kbps mp3, but they are still played back in 16-bit/44.1kHz. Logic dictates that Android then upsamples the frequency to its usual 48kHz.
Yet I find Spotify to sound as good or better than Tidal’s FLAC files played straight from the app (so upsampled).
In turn Tidal’s FLAC/MQA played bit-perfect through UAPP sound better than Spotify.
So I deduce that to my ears Android’s haphazard upsampling is more damaging to audio than the downsize to a lossy, but well optimized format like 320 kbps mp3. Or it’s just that the Spotify app is a good player.

What also intrigues me is that Davy’s comment seems to only take into account the bit rate handling, whereas my experience is that the mere shift from 44.1 to 48kHz is enough to introduce errors that spoil the entire spectrum. Not a tiny bit of high-frequency distortion as he mentions, but a generally crappy, unnatural sound. I now use UAPP for Bluetooth too, for volume control and headroom but also because it sounds a bit better.

I don’t much care for 24-bit audio, let alone 32! Nor in playback above CD quality. In a physical space where your body can feel the literally ground-shaking subbass and the air vibrate, sure. Straight inside my ears, nah. On the other hand Android upsampling is my personal worst enemy. I sometimes wonder whether a bit-perfect DAP would improve Spotify playback but have never been able to test that.

 

[Interceptor69]

That is a very interesting quote. I often wonder whether Spotify streams are degraded by the Android stack, but there’s no way to ascertain this since UAPP etc. are not allowed to stream Spotify.

I know Spotify files are 320 kbps mp3, but they are still played back in 16-bit/44.1kHz. Logic dictates that Android then upsamples the frequency to its usual 48kHz.
Yet I find Spotify to sound as good or better than Tidal’s FLAC files played straight from the app (so upsampled).
In turn Tidal’s FLAC/MQA played bit-perfect through UAPP sound better than Spotify.
So I deduce that to my ears Android’s haphazard upsampling is more damaging to audio than the downsize to a lossy, but well optimized format like 320 kbps mp3. Or it’s just that the Spotify app is a good player.

What also intrigues me is that Davy’s comment seems to only take into account the bit rate handling, whereas my experience is that the mere shift from 44.1 to 48kHz is enough to introduce errors that spoil the entire spectrum. Not a tiny bit of high-frequency distortion as he mentions, but a generally crappy, unnatural sound. I now use UAPP for Bluetooth too, for volume control and headroom but also because it sounds a bit better.

I don’t much care for 24-bit audio, let alone 32! Nor in playback above CD quality. In a physical space where your body can feel the literally ground-shaking subbass and the air vibrate, sure. Straight inside my ears, nah. On the other hand Android upsampling is my personal worst enemy. I sometimes wonder whether a bit-perfect DAP would improve Spotify playback but have never been able to test that.

Spotify is a lossy format so bit perfect isn't possible.

 

[monsieurfromag3]

Spotify is a lossy format so bit perfect isn't possible.

A lossy format in a 16-bit, 44.1 kHz container. Does Android upsampling introduce errors in the mp3 file on top of the lossy compression is my question. If you put a small thing inside a big box, and you attack the box hard enough, you can damage the thing inside.

 

[LightBlue77]

Spotify is a lossy format so bit perfect isn't possible.

Bit perfect is not related to lossy or lossless property, it means original bits are not processed in any way before converting them to audio signal.

 

[Interceptor69]

I should have said Spotify transmits in a format that is compressed. The incoming stream is already compressed and when the device decodes the stream, data is lost so even if bit perfect the data is already altered.

 

[buonassi]

Does Android upsampling introduce errors in the mp3 file on top of the lossy compression is my question

yup it does. all SRC introduces additional non-linearities (in the form of quantization errors) whether compressed or original PCM. Things like room reverb/ambience just don't get resolved as well after SRC. Some 'cleanliness' and 'precision' is lost in low level detail. SRC is the worse of two bads IMO. I'd rather listen to apple music without SRC than Qobuz lossless through android audio stack.

That said, not all SRC is equal. Different conversion algorithms (Sox, isotope, Apple Core Audio, Windows WASAPI) will all vary to some degree. Android's is especially bad - as it is designed to be processor light and fast.

Also, FWIW I have commented previously (probably in another thread) how mediocre the tidal app on Android sounds compared to tapping into the tidal stream via UAPP. This is even true for using Tidal app on a device that avoids SRC (hiby, ibasso, etc).

 

[Interceptor69]

Agree on using UAPP for Tidal and Qobuz even on my R5- sounds better.

 

[ArchDragoon]

Is there an option to force bypass android mixer in UAPP ? I did tried HiBy music and found that it don't have widget very strange.

 

[Dannemand]

yup it does. all SRC introduces additional non-linearities (in the form of quantization errors) whether compressed or original PCM. Things like room reverb/ambience just don't get resolved as well after SRC. Some 'cleanliness' and 'precision' is lost in low level detail. SRC is the worse of two bads IMO. I'd rather listen to apple music without SRC than Qobuz lossless through android audio stack.

That said, not all SRC is equal. Different conversion algorithms (Sox, isotope, Apple Core Audio, Windows WASAPI) will all vary to some degree. Android's is especially bad - as it is designed to be processor light and fast.

Also, FWIW I have commented previously (probably in another thread) how mediocre the tidal app on Android sounds compared to tapping into the tidal stream via UAPP. This is even true for using Tidal app on a device that avoids SRC (hiby, ibasso, etc).

Thank you, awesome post!

It's wild that Qobuz still haven't realized that their otherwise pristine HiRes streams get mangled by the mixer on many Android devices.

Same with Amazon and their supposed "HD". But FWIW they sound a little better by using their own SRC, although still limited to 48Khz. At least on LG Quad DAC phones.

Is there an option to force bypass android mixer in UAPP ?

Yes, that is one of the main draws of UAPP. As long as you use a device supported by UAPP's Direct HiRes driver (external USB DAC or internal HiRes DAC) it will bypass the Mixer.

 

[ArchDragoon]

Cool, Thank for confirmation !

*Just installed it and found there's bit perfect mode option. Easy to find.

 

[Interceptor69]

Thank you, awesome post!

It's wild that Qobuz still haven't realized that their otherwise pristine HiRes streams get mangled by the mixer on many Android devices.

Same with Amazon and their supposed "HD". But FWIW they sound a little better by using their own SRC, although still limited to 48Khz. At least on LG Quad DAC phones.



Yes, that is one of the main draws of UAPP. As long as you use a device supported by UAPP's Direct HiRes driver (external USB DAC or internal HiRes DAC) it will bypass the Mixer.

Pretty sure the owners of Qobuz are aware. Also pretty sure they know they can't control what people play their music on. But I'm also sure they assume most people spending almost $20 a month on a subscription aren't going to listen only on a smart phone.

 

[Interceptor69]

Bit perfect is not related to lossy or lossless property, it means original bits are not processed in any way before converting them to audio signal.

Found a long but informative blog post related to bitperfect for anyone interested. I learned quite a lot about HiRes in general some of his other posts re: bit depth, DSD vs PCM, the use of compression during recording, etc.

https://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/computer-audio-misconceptions/

 

[LightBlue77]

Yes, what the article says is correct about bit perfect. Uapp will not alter the bits on bit perfect mode but other hw or sw components might.
On a side topic, does anyone know if the mqa issues of Android 9 or 10 on lg v40 have been fixed? I've searched both uapp and v40 threads but no clear answer yet.

 

[Brunski18]

hello, I am new to the forum and thank you for accepting me. sorry for my English. I have a question that I have already asked in different forums without ever having had an answer! why do i still have quite a lot of latency when fast forwarding one of the Tidal files with uapp? I have already set the buffer memory without any success. thank you for helping me

 

[LightBlue77]

I noticed this too, especially on DAPs like fiio m15 or pioneer xdp300r, there is some processing or the wifi needs to be strong enough. It always works faster when I get closer to the router or on smartphones with better cpu, better wifi/mobile data receivers. Tidal and Spotify apps are always faster then uapp, even streaming from youtube.