[Dannemand]

Let's see if anyone can help me with this decision.

At the moment I'm using my old LG G5 with B&O hifi dac module, to play Qobuz (about to run out) and tidal (have another 4 months left) through UAPP to decent amp, to my magnepans. Pretty happy with the music quality in qobuz, but have two issues: 1. Every time the phone loses connection with WiFi, the whole playlist gets lost and I have to reselect the playlist. 2. No MQA support. Curiously wondering what I might be missing out on.

So at the moment I'm in two minds about which direction to go from the following options:

Option A: Get a used LG V30 and use this with UAPP. Advantage is full MQA support (right? Or am I mistaken?). Disadvantage, will I still have the WiFi reliability issue? Do I want to risk having the same problem again. Plus, is the sound quality on the V30 better than G5 hifi dac? Anyone ever compared the two?

Option B: Buy an official android TV box, use a ztella MQA dac to play through UAPP. Advantage is Internet reliability over ethernet (tried it at a friends and works like a charm). Another advantage is that full MQA is guaranteed to work. Disadvantages: inferior sound quality of the ztella dac compared to the v30 dac? (am I right?)

I was wondering what your thoughts are? Anyone has any experience with any of the above? Anyone who can really tell how the ztella compares to the v30 dac?

You might still experience some WiFi data skips and clicks with UAPP on V30, I have, and so have others. Particularly with high bitrate tracks (Qobuz HiRes or Tidal MQA). It depends a lot on which other apps you have on the phone: If some are CPU hogs that prevent timely servicing of interrupts. We discussed it in this thread early last year, starting around this post.

I've never listened to the G5, but if you are referring to the external B&O HiFi DAC, then I believe it is a different ESS DAC (ES9028) with a discrete amp. The Quad DAC phones (V10 and newer) use ES9218P with an integrated OpAmp. I would expect the 9028 to be at least as good.

Option A: Yes, V30 and newer have full hardware MQA. But you can just buy the MQA add-on for UAPP to play it on any DAC, including your G5/B&O DAC. It will only include first unfold (88 or 96KHz) but that's by far the most important as far sound quality.

Afraid I don't have experience with Option B.

 

[Steve Guppy]

Yes, I have a DAC with LED sample rate indicator, but beyond that, UAPP will display in it's UI both the native sample rate of the track, and the sample rate the DAC is playing. Unlike some other less reputable apps, this one doesn't lie, the UI displays the correct information, every time in my experience.

You are FAR too suspicious and doubtful of this, the UAPP app has been the gold standard for many years, and the capability you are describing is nothing at all new or novel, nor open to any big debate. Just drop the $9 and you have the best Android app for native sample rate playback using an external USB DAC.

Once again, the key points regarding compatibility are simply this: phone can operate in USB host mode, and you have the proper OTG cable, and a compatible DAC. Thats it, if you have those 3 things, you can play 24/192 and beyond using UAPP.

UAPP will even play back DSD128 (5.6mHz) natively, so long as the DAC supports it. So 24/192 is not the limit, the highest PCM sample rate I have tested is 352.8 kHz, because I don't have any PCM tracks with anything higher than that, but if I did, I'd bet they work too, so long as it is a sample rate that is actually supported by the DAC.

For proof, nobody but you should Google the specs for your S8, to see if it is USB host mode capable (Hint: it most certainly is). Try it, Google search the following: Galaxy S8 USB host mode.

So you have an S8 and it is compatible, but which USB DAC do you currently have? Some DACs have lousy firmware that can cause a problem, but which DAC are you going to use? Do you have a known to work Type C OTG cable or adapter?

That last bit has actually been troublesome for some people, the cheapest most generic eBay OTG cable sometimes won't work, hardly surprising, but not all generic cables are garbage, only some of them.

For peace of mind and not waiting forever for an eBay shipment from China, you can certainly use an Amazon sold product such as the Cable Creations OTG, or even the iFi OTG, depending on which DAC you have, and what kind of USB input it has.

My S7 has a microUSB port, but I do have a Galaxy Tab A tablet that does have a Type C port just like your S8. That is not an expensive tablet. It works well with UAPP and an external USB DAC using the Cable Creations OTG cable:





The app works bro, assuming you have a compatible DAC and OTG cable. If you don't, then this is much ado about nothing.

While i agree with everything you say, to say that UAPP is the "Gold standard" is a bit biased. Neutron is probably still the ultimate audiophile music player, has bit perfect playback, follow source frequency, Dsd playback, and everything you could wish for to play music how you'd like. Sure, the UI is clunky and outdated (probably deliberate, to make it even more niche), but it has a far superior EQ system than UAPP (easier to use, work around, and customise), and can be set to auto play on BT connection. Also, if customization is your thing, Poweramp is also a front runner in terms of what it offers and it has by far the best interface of the 3.

So, to sum up, UAPP is very good, but it can't be regarded as the "gold standard". It's all subjective. Any of the 3 players can be described as superior depending on your needs and view points. And all have flaws.

I used to be a Poweramp die-hard, but discovered the better audio quality of Neutron a couple of years ago. I tried A>B'ing Neutron and UAPP back to back a while back using eq and without, and couldn't discern any difference between them. My only inclination was that Neutron had more depth to the bass and sub-bass region, but that could just be placebo due to the many hours spent learning its idiosyncrasies and UI!..

I now use UAPP to stream via BT at home and in the car, but for serious listening, i still ever so slightly prefer Neutron.

 

[IEManiac]

If you confirmed it with indicator lights on the DAC, that's evident enough (that is, if you have seen it light up with the sampling rate I've asked about). It's also good news that I do not need to get another device. Both my DACs take in usb input. One of them takes in micro USB, and the other usb-B connection, from usb-C on my phone. I just need to get the right cables for them to try. I need to order one from Amazon to try out.

I'm interested in using with my Schiit DAC, but it doesn't output any sort of indicators of the sampling rate. However, it will sound a relay sound (or something) when sampling rate changes. So, I no evidence of S8 outputting 24/192. I would have been sure if there was an official statement some where.

Dude, you gotta stop with this insistence on 'official statement' on sample rate. Please join us in 2020, on this side of Android. Stop obssessing about things that were already implemented and available years ago.

 

[MikeyFresh]

While i agree with everything you say, to say that UAPP is the "Gold standard" is a bit biased. Neutron is probably still the ultimate audiophile music player, has bit perfect playback, follow source frequency, Dsd playback, and everything you could wish for to play music how you'd like. Sure, the UI is clunky and outdated (probably deliberate, to make it even more niche), but it has a far superior EQ system than UAPP (easier to use, work around, and customise), and can be set to auto play on BT connection. Also, if customization is your thing, Poweramp is also a front runner in terms of what it offers and it has by far the best interface of the 3.

Fair enough, but I'd add the following to my own stance, I have always liked and used Onkyo HF Player just about (but not quite as much) as well as I do UAPP. So I'm not a UAPP fan boy that rejects all others, Onkyo HF Player is also excellent for my particular purposes and if that was all I had on a desert island, I'd be just fine. So there is no "bias", I use various other apps, Mconnect, BubbleUPnP, or even HiFi Cast and all are useful to me.

Some of my past experiences with other apps, including both Hiby and Neutron date back a couple of years, and so for all I know they are very much improved compared to my experience with them. But that said, they had better be improved, because they were buggy/terrible when I tried them, particularly Neutron, and as you said, the UI just wasn't up to snuff either. UAPP was superior in every way in my book, but that was a couple of years ago.

The Neutron features you mentioned with regard to DSD and bit perfect playback, following the source file's native sample rate, that's all been standard in UAPP for years now, nothing at all unique to Neutron there to the best of my knowledge.

Note that I did not knock any other apps in my "gold standard" statement, not at all, I just stated my preference for UAPP.

So I do stand by my statement that UAPP is the gold standard, but obviously that's an opinion. Maybe a better way to describe it would be it's the original... and still the champ in my book.

But I appreciate your post and recognize that my use case is not everyone else's. So there isn't any one "right" answer here. I do not have any interest at all in EQ or Bluetooth, to cite your feature examples, but I understand and appreciate that others do. I just have no particular use for them.

Finally, I've heard nothing but good about Poweramp, but have never tried it to date. The reason for that is I'm quite satisfied with UAPP, however that means I cannot compare the two, I have no opinion on Poweramp because I'm unfamiliar with it.

My statement there was not meant to preach to a wider audience, rather, it was to assure SilverEars he was over analyzing, over thinking, and overly suspicious about the $9 UAPP commit. That was the context for my post, it appeared he had been misinformed about some sort of special LG phone capabilities with regard to use of an external USB DAC, when the only hardware consideration there is USB host mode and DAC compatibility (certain DACs have firmware that doesn't always play well with Android). That probably came from a salesman pushing LG phones if I had to guess.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Been using UAPP since its conception. And been using it with my desktop DAC for a long time now.
Here is an old picture taken 5 years ago of my Geek Pulse Infinity running thru my old Galaxy Note 3 playing DSD128.

A 9$ app that can do this was and still a no brainer. Compared to the $$$$ we spend on our equipments. So no fuss.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

I have always liked and used Onkyo HF Player just about (but not quite as much) as well as I do UAPP.

Same here! Upsample to DSD128??

 

[Steve Guppy]

Fair enough, but I'd add the following to my own stance, I have always liked and used Onkyo HF Player just about (but not quite as much) as well as I do UAPP. So I'm not a UAPP fan boy that rejects all others, Onkyo HF Player is also excellent for my particular purposes and if that was all I had on a desert island, I'd be just fine. So there is no "bias", I use various other apps, Mconnect, BubbleUPnP, or even HiFi Cast and all are useful to me.

Some of my past experiences with other apps, including both Hiby and Neutron date back a couple of years, and so for all I know they are very much improved compared to my experience with them. But that said, they had better be improved, because they were buggy/terrible when I tried them, particularly Neutron, and as you said, the UI just wasn't up to snuff either. UAPP was superior in every way in my book, but that was a couple of years ago.

The Neutron features you mentioned with regard to DSD and bit perfect playback, following the source file's native sample rate, that's all been standard in UAPP for years now, nothing at all unique to Neutron there to the best of my knowledge.

Note that I did not knock any other apps in my "gold standard" statement, not at all, I just stated my preference for UAPP.

So I do stand by my statement that UAPP is the gold standard, but obviously that's an opinion. Maybe a better way to describe it would be it's the original... and still the champ in my book.

But I appreciate your post and recognize that my use case is not everyone else's. So there isn't any one "right" answer here. I do not have any interest at all in EQ or Bluetooth, to cite your feature examples, but I understand and appreciate that others do. I just have no particular use for them.

Finally, I've heard nothing but good about Poweramp, but have never tried it to date. The reason for that is I'm quite satisfied with UAPP, however that means I cannot compare the two, I have no opinion on Poweramp because I'm unfamiliar with it.

My statement there was not meant to preach to a wider audience, rather, it was to assure SilverEars he was over analyzing, over thinking, and overly suspicious about the $9 UAPP commit. That was the context for my post, it appeared he had been misinformed about some sort of special LG phone capabilities with regard to use of an external USB DAC, when the only hardware consideration there is USB host mode and DAC compatibility (certain DACs have firmware that doesn't always play well with Android). That probably came from a salesman pushing LG phones if I had to guess.

+1 for Onkyo HF. Very slick and nice interface and as competent as the others we have mentioned. If i didn't EQ, It would probably be a toss up between this and UAPP. But it does have a very quirky and not very intuitive eq, so it loses half a star for me.

For me the fact that you can't look at a graph on UAPP's 10 band equaliser is also disappointing. And 6 or 10 bands. That's it. Neutron has anything from 4 (not really enough) to 60! (Far, far too many!) But i find the 12 band the sweetspot for me. I needed just one extra tweak over the 10 band to get my 1770's just so.

Here's a break down of just how competent Neutron is now:

 

[Chikolad]

I'm new to the thread and this must have been discussed a million times before, but is there any reason that UAPP can't do "direct to DAC" (exclusive mode) AND EQ at the same time?

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Here's a break down of just how competent Neutron is now:
...and after a long list of features....drum roll....

Q: Can it do MQA???

Sorry of the joke
Just came to my mind

 

[Dannemand]

@Davy Wentzler: You may want to take charge of this thread again while you still can

BTW hope you're alright!

 

[Steve Guppy]

Here's a break down of just how competent Neutron is now:
...and after a long list of features....drum roll....

Q: Can it do MQA???

Sorry of the joke
Just came to my mind

My post wasn't intended to bash UAPP, quite the opposite. I was just trying to show to others there ARE other high quality audio options, especially if, like me, you still like old-skool, storage based music listening.

And the lack of auto play upon BT connection just annoys me. Also, i discovered there are only limited play options. You can loop one song, the album or play the album once, and that's it. You can't, for example start it playing an album, and leave it to continue to the next in your library. So not perfect.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Of course I do!
Just came that thought it my mind...and just found it funny.

 

[Steve Guppy]

@Davy Wentzler: You may want to take charge of this thread again while you still can

BTW hope you're alright!

If your comment is directed, among others, at my posts then i sincerely apologise. Its not my intention, or ever has been, to derail or segway the original point of this topic.

What is it that you think this post should be discussing regards UAPP? And i shall refrain from making further comments if i feel like they are not constructive...

 

[Dannemand]

If your comment is directed, among others, at my posts then i sincerely apologise. Its not my intention, or ever has been, to derail or segway the original point of this topic.

What is it that you think this post should be discussing regards UAPP? And i shall refrain from making further comments if i feel like they are not constructive...

No, no, it wasn't directed at any one poster in particular. I am sorry, I can see how it might have looked that way.

I was merely referring (humorously!) to all our musings about things somewhat unrelated to UAPP.

And then I'm wondering why we haven't heard from Davy so long -- and NOT humorously, hoping he is OK.

You're fine, it really was just a chuckle on my part.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

COVID quarantine effects....