[Kel Ghu]

I have a pico... And now I want a predator cause of its bass! But I am a newb... Is there a whole lot of difference? Because I could barely hear the difference between my laptop and my pico at first, it's not obvious. I can hear now on some tracks, but it's still very subtle... I mean, I will not hear the difference if I don't concentrate. I am seeking the perfect portable amp w/ DAC there is suited for my needs.

Will I hear the difference with the pico if I buy the predator? Like I would if I bought another pair of headphones?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Boy, that is a tough decision. They are both good, but do sound different to me. A lot of people don't hear these differences like some of us can. The pico is good, I just like the Predator a little more (after burn-in).

I never planned to use the Pico for anything except as a portable DAC, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. It is very clean and neutral, but I like a warm tubey sound like Predator and even 2Move as the final stage before my headphones. The PICO is great feeding my laptop music into my DarkVoice 336i in my basement rig. This way I can leave the Micro DAC with my bedside rig, and Apogee mini-DAC with my main rig. I almost bought a 2007 HR Microportable with DAC instead of Pico, but I was too curious.

PS: Pico has lots of bass. It's the mids and highs that are most different.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kel Ghu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a pico... And now I want a predator cause of its bass! But I am a newb... Is there a whole lot of difference? Because I could barely hear the difference between my laptop and my pico at first, it's not obvious. I can hear now on some tracks, but it's still very subtle... I mean, I will not hear the difference if I don't concentrate. I am seeking the perfect portable amp w/ DAC there is suited for my needs. Will I hear the difference with the pico if I buy the predator? Like I would if I bought another pair of headphones?

 

[Hellenback]

I've read a great deal of this thread but didn't see anywhere that you rolled any opamps with the Headstage Lyrix Total. It does have interchangeable opamps does it not?
I know it uses the same AD8397 opamp stock that many other amps use, but am curious to know if there is any opamp you know of that might improve the lack of "air".

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

The Lyrix is as good as most of these amps if they are all using the line-in instead of built-in DAC. It sounds very similar to a D2 or Pico when the three are well burned in and used with my iMod.

However, the point of this review is using the DAC as the input for all of them, since most of all the other reviews of several amps DO NOT test the DAC. And, it's the Lyrix DAC that holds it back slightly. It is using the Burr Brown/TI PCM 2704 to convert USB to analog. An 8.8/10 is still an excellent score.

The other DAC/Amps in this review seem to use the TI USB chip to output S/PDIF into a better DAC chip instead of taking the analog out (e.g. Lyrix) - and so they sound better. The D2 uses the PCM2706 to output S/PDIF to a Wonfson WM8740 DAC, and the Pico uses the 2706 to output I2S to the a 24/96 up-converter (guessing an AD1896) and feeds that into the WM8740, etc...

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

PS: I didn't roll the Lyrix opamps because I LIKED the STOCK sound, I just wish it to have a better DAC (which is still clearly better than analog out of my Macbook).

 

[Hellenback]

Thanks for the reply. I understand a certain amount of this, just not the pre-conversion stage you mentioned concerning the
T1-> S/PDIF as opposed to the analog out if the Lyrix. I understand that the Lyrix uses an inferior chip to the ones in the other amps. (I think it is the same one that is used in the Aria, maybe implemented differently?). Do you know if the Lyrix line DAC performs the same as the internal one?
I know it is the same DAC chip, just don't know if the extra travel length of the cable would degrade the sound any.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellenback /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the reply. I understand a certain amount of this, just not the pre-conversion stage you mentioned concerning the T1-> S/PDIF as opposed to the analog out if the Lyrix. I understand that the Lyrix uses an inferior chip to the ones in the other amps. (I think it is the same one that is used in the Aria, maybe implemented differently?). Do you know if the Lyrix line DAC performs the same as the internal one? I know it is the same DAC chip, just don't know if the extra travel length of the cable would degrade the sound any.

I did a review and found them to be almost identical. There was maybe a slight improvement with the internal one, but I could not quantify it because it was so close.

In my November 07 review, the D1 DAC was better, but it took a long while to find opamps that made the iBasso D1 DAC/amp combo sound as good or better than the Lyrix DAC/Amp combo. In that case it was the Amp holding the D1 back. Once I found the LT6234 for the D1 DAC section, and AD797 for main amp, with AD8397 as buffers, the D1 as a combo DAC/Amp was just above the Lyrix as a DAC/Amp.

Later I found the HR Micro DAC sounds even better than the rolled-opamp D1 when D1 is used as a DAC line-out only. The D1 is the only one with line-out and headphone out, while the HeadRoom is line out only, and all the rest are headphone out. So, compared to the HR, the D1 DAC section (when used as DAC line-out only) is not as warm and full as a DAC as the headroom. But, then the D1 as a DAC/Amp combo was back near the top again when I made some changes again (LTC6241 DAC section, AD743 main, LMH6643 buffers).

I need to play with the opamp in the D1 DAC section more. Once I get it back from China for the channel imbalance, I think I will try the LM6172 and LMH6643 or LMH6655 in the DAC of the D1 next, because it is still too cold as a DAC. I did try the D1 headphone out to drive my home amp once, instead of the line-out, and headphone out sounded more full and warmer than line out. (then i returned the stock opamps and shipped it to iBasso).

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I replied to a PM that I thought I would share, which kinda goes back to what I said in post #92 re: Predator vs Pico.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PM Hi, I'm thinking about buying a DAC/amp and I'm torn between the Pico and The Predator. So I would like some of your opinion, if you dont mind. I see you rated the Predator as your first choice in your Mini Review. I would like to know if the difference between the Pico and Predator is purely preference or does the Predator really outperforms the Pico by a large margin? (whether as an amp or DAC) Personally I prefer a colder sounding system and wide soundstage. So I felt that the Pico should suite me better. But alot of Predator owner seems to agree that the Predator sounds like a home amp, which is again very tempting I own a Hornet amp and would like to know if it's worth the upgrade to the Predator? Or should I go for another signature? Thanks in advance!

I would say it is purely preference on the difference, not a performance difference.

I have never heard a Hornet, but Skylab and others that have suggested to get a Hornet if you don't need the DAC and want the RSA "house sound" at a more affordable price, so I assume they sound similar. From the descriptions I've read, I wanted to assume the Predator is more like the earlier Hornet non-M with it's punchier sound, but nobody who recommends the Hornet instead has specified that. Yet, in amp only reviews I see the Predator ranked higher than Hornet. Confusing to me too.

The Predator does WALK ALL OVER my 800+ hour Tomahawk, which I finally sold after the Predator, and the TH is a great amp for the tiny size and huge battery life. Predator does NOT walk all over the other top 3 amps in my review though (2MOVE, Pico, and D2 new opamps and stock). It is just different, and that is why I had such a hard time ranking them.

The Pico is a very nice amp, is not lacking in power, and it sounds like it is exactly what you are looking for based on your comments.

Larry

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

In looking into the numbers more, I can't say these numbers really mean anything. Some of the ones for sale have been sold multiple times. In one case, there is a Pico that is on its 4th owner. I am the 3rd owner of my Pico #11.

The wait time required for the Pico likely encourages people who want to try one to look to buy one used, rather than buy one from Justin and possibly return it. I referred to that issue when I said the Predator didn't have a wait list.

The wait list also discourages people from returning amps to Justin, as they can quickly sell it to someone else for what they paid. Justin tells me that the rate of return on the Pico, and all amps, is less than 3%. I am impressed by that. I am also in the group of people who are keeping their Pico.

Since well over 90% of Justin's sales are over the internet, it's not surprising to see more sold over the internet market as well.

The Pico still has THE most impressive USB DAC in the price range, and the neutrality that I go on about so much allows me to have an excellent DAC for my basement rig, without buying another mini-DAC or HR Ultra Micro DAC for a lot more money. Being able to use it on USB on both PC and Mac is what won me over to the Pico, because the Apogee Duet is Mac firewire only, while in the same price range.

So, I hope this clears things up, and I am sorry for my poorly researched sales numbers that I posted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by original post before editing Here is some fun I had today: Searching the Amplifier For Sale Forums, I came up with 15 hits for the word Predator but only 5 were FS/sold/IC. Many stated selling for the money only. There are 48 hits for the word Pico in the Amp FS forum - and out of 48 hits for the word Pico, 18 were FS/Sold/IC. That is about 3.4x more people are selling off Picos than Predators, but if I recall about the same number have shipped. There were 11 by people who wanted to buy or trade for Pico after they were released, and were paying outright or selling/trading to get one. It looked like 2 people were WTB the Predator (no waiting list). Two ads that I stumbled upon were someone who sold their Pico because they liked the Predator more, and one where they sold both Pico and Predator. The rest of the hits I found were people discussing that they had one or the other ordered or in hand, or in their sig line.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is about 3.4x more people are selling off Picos than Predators, but if I recall about the same number have shipped.

Is that right, accordingly to the data I've seen, Pico outsells Predator by quite a margin? How many Predators were sold already?

 

[frozenice]

The numbers look pretty close to me. Ray sold a few more than the 200 he allocated for the intro price by the end of Jan/08 and according to the Pico sponsored thread Justin is getting the parts ready for #300. If these numbers are correct the number of people with either one should be close to the same.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

See my edited post #99 above.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

for those who missed it, or are only reading copies of new posts that are emailed to them:

In looking into the numbers more, I can't say those numbers really mean anything. Some of the ones for sale have been sold multiple times. In one case, there is a Pico that is on its 4th owner. I am the 3rd owner of my Pico #11.

The wait time required for the Pico likely encourages people who want to try one to look to buy one used, rather than buy one from Justin and possibly return it. I referred to that issue when I said the Predator didn't have a wait list.

The wait list also discourages people from returning amps to Justin, as they can quickly sell it to someone else for what they paid. Justin tells me that the rate of return on the Pico, and all amps, is less than 3%. I am impressed by that. I am also in the group of people who are keeping their Pico.

Since well over 90% of Justin's sales are over the internet, it's not surprising to see more sold over the internet market as well.

The Pico still has THE most impressive USB DAC in the price range, and the neutrality that I go on about so much allows me to have an excellent DAC for my basement rig, without buying another mini-DAC or HR Ultra Micro DAC for a lot more money. Being able to use it on USB on both PC and Mac is what won me over to the Pico, because the Apogee Duet is Mac firewire only, while in the same price range.

So, I hope this clears things up, and I am sorry for my poorly researched sales numbers that I posted.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I got a second STAX SRM-1 Mk2 for my basement rig, and the Pico seems to work fairly well as just a DAC feeding the STAX amp with SR-Lambda normal bias (which are fairly warm). So I tried my SR-5N (gold) and it was like "wow" - fast and punchy with mids like sweet honey.

Interestingly, the D2 isn't getting used much, since it is a bit bigger than the Predator velcro'd to my 3G nano, and because I am loving my TTVJ millet hybrid portable with iMod and RS-1 sooooo very much. Grados -n- toobs, yum...

I am just loving the music.

 

[psilu001]

I have a question. Could D2 use AC adapter all day? Is it safe for D2? Or could damage the D2?