[Zoide]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let's all shake hands and make love

Now *that* makes sense

 

[Dexdexter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let's all shake hands and make love

Indra, you should pop that into your signature before somebody else does!

 

[BigJohn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoide /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now *that* makes sense

Our beloved Constrastique, who may well be the most attractive head-fi'er there is, sometimes tries to say what she means in poorly translated English.

Let's not hate her for it, but rather love her for it, because she does it with the best intentions, I'm sure.

I'm not sure though, that she wrote exactly what she meant...

But remember we are Dutch, English is not our first language, how would you English people do when you had to write a post in Dutch, I'd like to see that!

But it sure makes for some interesting reading now and then, I'm certainly with you on that one!

 

[spacemanspliff]

Apologies for the hard words. I was in a bad mood and it is not Elphas fault that he has an opinion.

I happen to agree with Elphas. I believe he's speaking sincerely about what he hears and have no issue with that.

Just got tired of the repetition of the discussion.

Now that I've said I am sorry I would also like to say:

NIN sounds lovely on the 2500

 

[Contrastique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not sure though, that she wrote exactly what she meant... But remember we are Dutch, English is not our first language, how would you English people do when you had to write a post in Dutch, I'd like to see that!

Thank you John! But I do think that when I would write that very same sentence in Dutch it would look even more weird!! I will give it a go...
"Laten we allemaal de handen schudden en samen de liefde bedrijven

"
Woehoewwww!! That sounds even more *****ed haha LOL LOL

But it sure is time for having a relaxed big laugh in here!!

 

[slwiser]

Never; Oh no! I have a hard enough time with English...being originally from Tennessee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn /img/forum/go_quote.gif how would you English people do when you had to write a post in Dutch, I'd like to see

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's fascinating to me how things have shifted back to hysteria again after maybe a week's lull. The M.O., remains the same: somebody pops out and personally attacks a fellow Head-Fi member for demonstrating "Ultrasonista" group-think, gets called on it, and then everybody gleefully piles on in a self-perpetuating frenzy. So I suppose congratulations are in order! You've managed to tar each and every member that shows enthusiasm for their Ultrasones with the same brush. Unfortunately, no worthwhile discussion becomes possible when you draw such Us vs. Them lines of division. Considered replies and earnest questions get removed out of context and flagged as badgering or sour grapes, instead of being read in the spirit of curiosity they were made. I don't agree with spacemanspliff's treatment of Elephas, and I'm guessing he probably regrets it. But I obviously understand the frustration behind it. And up until today, both Terry and Elephas were absolute models of patience and decorum. But now we've seen that even they can be pushed too far. Well done!

Dex, I think the frustration runs both ways. I like my 2500s and think they're a bargin for people who aren't sensitive to the same things I am. I've recommend people try them, but I've posted what I believe to be significant problems with them and I am not alone in hearing these. The responses towards my posts have been civil in tone, but totally dimissive of my experience. I have also received pms stating same (though, in fairness, one was by someone who was genuinely trying to help). Okay, it's a dang headphone forum. I left well enough alone, and chose to keep my opinions to myself and read on silently. Then I started seeing the way others who objected to the best-headphone-in-the-world philosophy were also treated. The most recent treatment of Elphas was just insane.

To be told that anything but the headphones are at fault because we hear sibilance, or a metallic veil (after 250+ hrs burn in), or recessed mids is a little hard to take time after time. We hear it. Maybe we're more sensitive than others to it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Many of us who have heard it have experience with many different headphones. We have a variety of damn good amps and sources. We listen to all sorts of different recordings and still, we hear these same flaws. Elphas was accused of making it up, SACD lover's integrity was questioned, and I received more than one pm questioning (though not accusing) my ability to hear at all.

I'm not going to gang up on anyone for enjoying headphones, whether I like them or not, but come on, don't dimiss others' views as inconsequential. Just say, "We don't hear that," and let us say, "We do." Stop blaming recordings (we all own enough to tell the difference), lack of burn in (not talking the first few hours), bad amps and sources, inexperienced hearing, or "hearing flaws that simply are not there" (What!!!). That's what some of us dislike and percieve as a gang "Ultrasonista" mentality. We, who have objected to percieved perfection of these cans, have experienced all of these comments by multiple members without exception. Many Ultrasone fans are fair and respectful, and I'm not referring to you, but to those of you who have crossed the line into weirdo zealots, stop the crap, and let us express our opinions as well without being told to "go away."

 

[slwiser]

All this excessive criticism could almost cause one to walk away from the Ultrazone completely. Why put up with excess criticism when you don't have too? I really appreciate those who can and do put up with it and keep on coming back with critical comments that add to the overall discussions.

I also know how easy it is to go overboard myself. It is very easy in the heat of the moment when I am tired and stressed to just say something which is not very helpful. I to, do this only to much.

Note the Zone is going to be known for all the rhetorical blood that is spilled if we don't be careful.

 

[BigJohn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you John! But I do think that when I would write that very same sentence in Dutch it would look even more weird!! I will give it a go... "Laten we allemaal de handen schudden en samen de liefde bedrijven " Woehoewwww!! That sounds even more *****ed haha LOL LOL But it sure is time for having a relaxed big laugh in here!!

That's allright,
I love it when I hear someone like you saying such things, even if you don't mean it!

[size=xx-small]Btw, I bought an RS2...[/size]

 

[farmer john]

First of, i pretty much agree with what boomana said before

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's fascinating to me how things have shifted back to hysteria again after maybe a week's lull. The M.O., remains the same: somebody pops out and personally attacks a fellow Head-Fi member for demonstrating "Ultrasonista" group-think, gets called on it, and then everybody gleefully piles on in a self-perpetuating frenzy. So I suppose congratulations are in order! You've managed to tar each and every member that shows enthusiasm for their Ultrasones with the same brush. Unfortunately, no worthwhile discussion becomes possible when you draw such Us vs. Them lines of division. Considered replies and earnest questions get removed out of context and flagged as badgering or sour grapes, instead of being read in the spirit of curiosity they were made.

To try and make this a simple "We-Ultrasone-lovers-are-the-good-ones-and-we-are-the-one-which-are-under-attack" attidude certainly don't do this case any justice. It's not like anyone pushed one of you "Ultrasonistas" to what happened to Elephas or SACD lover.

They simple stated what they hear, and for that they got offended.

They are notable members, with a wast experience in headphone hifi, and to be true, after reading the "Big Thread", some of the Ultrasonistas simply lack their experience, haven't heard nearly as much gear as the aforementioned members have ( with notable execeptions like slwiser or Sovkiller).

But still they have to face your critizism, and no real discussion is going on, like i already mentioned before.

It always gets very "hot", when a negative comment pops up, without real discussion of it, other than trying to discredit the member in question.

So you can carry on with this attitude of "black&white", good and bad, or you can start to have a real Ultrasone discurs happening, were negative comments are allowed to happen, because this is the reality, and not "pinky-fluffly-Ultrasonia"........

 

[Contrastique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn /img/forum/go_quote.gif [size=xx-small]Btw, I bought an RS2...[/size]

Sweet! Congrats with your purchase! Still not coming to my meet...?

Would like to hear a grado.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif All this excessive criticism could almost cause one to walk away from the Ultrazone completely. Why put up with excess criticism when you don't have too? I really appreciate those who can and do put up with it and keep on coming back with critical comments that add to the overall discussions.

I agree, but I'm not sure to which criticism you're referring. Excessive criticism of what, or is it whom? Those who have tried to be critical about these headphones, have been criticized personally (in posts or pm) in return. Is that what you mean? Or, is the the critical tone (e.g. my past two posts) towards members who have crossed the line (e.g. "hearing flaws that simply are not there" or "Go away!")?

BTW, I still want to hear the Edition 9.

 

[BigJohn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sweet! Congrats with your purchase! Still not coming to my meet...? Would like to hear a grado.

[size=x-small]I might, if enough of your guests bring amps that I can abuse...
That's my next quest...
Gettin' an amp for the Grado...[/size]

 

[slwiser]

I must have archived my objective in being political in how I said what I said. You will get no further clarification from me other than "no comment".

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree, but I'm not sure to which criticism you're referring. Excessive criticism of what, or is it who? Those who have tried to be critical about these headphones, have been criticized personally (in posts or pm) in return. Is that what you mean? Or, is the the critical tone (e.g. my past two posts) towards members who have crossed the line (e.g. "hearing flaws that simply are not there" or "Go away!")? BTW, I still want to hear the Edition 9.

 

[tbritton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif This post strikes me as bizarre. Again, I assume this is referring to the posts I made in this thread. I find it laughable that someone is telling me I'm hearing things that don't exist, or parroting what others say.

I'm sorry, Elephas... I was referring to the use of the term "one-note bass" as the chief offender. I listen to a lot of organ music recordings, and one of the biggest delights of the Ultrasone is that the pedal notes all sound distinct, full bodied and real, and that one can clearly follow the melody line presented by the foot pedals. This is very much not true on other headphones I've heard, and is why I formerly only enjoyed listening to organ music on speaker systems. The clarity and definition and pitch-accuracy of the lowest organ pipes is astonishing to these ears listening with the Prolines, and is a chief "rave" point for me with them.

So, when you used the term "one-note bass" (which I consider one of the most derogatory things you could say about a headphone, as it is used regularly to describe the very worst headphones out there), I was shocked and could only assume your program material was either very poor, or your system was holding things back from you, or you were copying notes from somebody else's impressions somewhere. Or perhaps that you were influenced by a negative reviewer and actually had yourself hearing one note bass by suggestion, through expecting to hear it - as expectations can skew our hearing very much.

Frankly, I expected to be bringing back my Prolines to the dealer, just because I knew I was demanding so much from a headphone for it to qualify as a "keeper" - especially paying nearly the full price at $340. After allowing it to burn in, I compared them to my monitors, and was satisfied that claims made by other professionals were justified. I'm afraid that when I hear claims made which fly in the face of conventional professionals' impressions to such a degree as I've been seeing lately, I cannot help but feel there is something akin to a "club" forming of people who are banding together based upon a kind of an anti-fanaticism stance, targeting the Ultrasone user base in this case. People get sucked into negative "reverse fanboyism" bonding sometimes. I am just as wary of such people's claims as I am of fanboy claims. (But then, I am wary of anybodies' claims other than my own - and even those I hold suspect for a while! I have to hear that they are going to fill my needs for myself, naturally.)

I get nervous when I see the vultures circling in reaction to what is perceived as others' indulging in headphone fanaticism. I hope people will simply be allowed to enjoy their headphones. Ultrasone has been put down for too long by people claiming all sorts of justifications for their revulsion and dislike of them... it is nice to see so many people are emerging to dispel those undeserved former claims (and outright falsehoods). I don't like seeing the detractors rallying afresh to justify themselves. I say to them, just send back the headphones and leave the rest of us alone! Sorry your ears cannot adjust to the Ultrasones. Sorry you cannot hear the amazing soundstage in classical music and the wonderful bass drums, tympani, bass viol and tuba with every note clear as a bell. I really am sorry for the lot of those detractors. I can only assume they do not hear what I am hearing because they cannot (ears or other aspects of their system getting in the way) or choose not to.

Elephas, you may not fit any of this at all! I am only explaining what has motivated my diatribes of late. But IF you really are hearing one-note bass, please try to isolate why! It is not the headphones, if they are functioning correctly and are not defective. Listen to some organ music, perhaps! Or some Russian Classical composers to test some full range symphonic orchestration that conveys drama, fun and excitement! Or Ligeti's orchestral pieces. Or Holtz' "The Planets". There must be some classical you can find that works well for you on these headphones! (Andrew_WOT, I'm hoping the same for you.)

Terry