[Earwax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 i definitely think i could have worded what i said differently, but i still do not look upon ue very fondly. i think the cracking problem is the main issue that makes me raise my eyebrows. i have heard of numerous ("many" certainly would be fair to say, but i'll avoid it this time) instances, including lindrone's, and at least one other head-fier who mentioned cracking. the fact that ue removed the "soft" option from their site, just goes to show that they realized they had a problem with it. yeah, as far as mistakes/defects go, i did harp a bit too much on that, as all companies make mistakes. i just let my feelings for ue regarding the cracking issue and their advertising (which i've made abundantly clear i dislike) take over. i wrongfully grouped these less legitimate random defects together with the other stuff i already know i do not like about ue. i still feel the same way about ue, but i wish i hadn't expressed my feelings the way i had. oh well... when i said "these kind of mistakes," i specifically chose these words over just saying "mistakes." i was referring to what i see (yeah, it's my opinion) as an inexcusable mistake, in ue's soft offering. the multitude of issues spoken of, conveys an utter lack of foresight on the company's part. the fact that ue pulled the soft option just proves ue realized something was wrong. it doesn't even have anything to do with sensaphonics - it's just from a business standpoint, in my opinion of how i think a respectable business should act - ue's fault here is really, really shameful. they clearly wanted to compete in the market with a soft offering of their own, but prematurely released a product to fill this niche without proper research, ultimately showing a lack of concern (in some way) for the end user. whether or not you agree with me as to how big a deal this is up to you, but it doesn't change the fact that it is true. at the risk of being the first head-fi member to be burned at the stake, i will refrain from any further posting in this thread.

I read all this and come to almost the opposite conclusion you have because, despite all the problems, UE has done right by their customers and remanufactred all the earphones that were in any way unsatisfactory. Problems happen all the time, but the responsible companies take care of their customers when the problems do occur and that's what UE has done by all reports.

disclaimer: I have no stake in this argument, I don't expect to ever buy high-end IEMs, I'm just a bemused observer to all this back and forth nonsense.

 

[Big D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 when i said "these kind of mistakes," i specifically chose these words over just saying "mistakes." i was referring to what i see (yeah, it's my opinion) as an inexcusable mistake, in ue's soft offering. the multitude of issues spoken of, conveys an utter lack of foresight on the company's part. the fact that ue pulled the soft option just proves ue realized something was wrong. it doesn't even have anything to do with sensaphonics - it's just from a business standpoint, in my opinion of how i think a respectable business should act - ue's fault here is really, really shameful. they clearly wanted to compete in the market with a soft offering of their own, but prematurely released a product to fill this niche without proper research, ultimately showing a lack of concern (in some way) for the end user. whether or not you agree with me as to how big a deal this is up to you, but it doesn't change the fact that it is true.

Did you even read Jude's post?

If you can't even help yourself then I shan't even bother trying to stop you getting yourself banned.

 

[CuriousVoiger]

Hi Lindrone, can I ask you a question?

You say that since you got the Sensa you haven't been using the EU-10 at all, they are pretty much gathering dust in their box. So how can something that you are not using develop a crack of that length? I mean, that is one hell of a crack.
Sorry I really find it a bit strange

~CV

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousVoiger Hi Lindrone, can I ask you a question? You say that since you got the Sensa you haven't been using the EU-10 at all, they are pretty much gathering dust in their box. So how can something that you are not using develop a crack of that length? I mean, that is one hell of a crack. Sorry I really find it a bit strange ~CV

Well, couldn't have said it better myself. I literally haven't touched them since I last tested the SuperMono & SR-71 when blessingx came over to my house. Before that they were sitting in the box for a couple of months as well. Otherwise they've been stored in the box, and nothing more.

I don't know how this could've happened, maybe the glue didn't dry fully when it left their factory?.. Who knows?

The only guess I have is that temperature or something caused the two material to expand/shrink at different ratio, and caused the tearing over time.

 

[random person]

I need to echo dmt1's post, in that we need to remember that UE's primary market has been professional musicians. Given their "use for one tour, throw 'em away" use of IEMs it is understandable that UE might not have realized the extent of the durability issues inherent in their soft/hard design. That said, when I almost upgraded to the UE10 based on the full-soft option, UE kindly talked me out of it, stating that the hard acryllic was more durable, and that in any case I would probably prefer the sound signature of the UE5c anyway. Steering me to a less expensive product is not the sign of an unethical company.

Also, for all the bashing of UE they continue to enjoy 75% of the the professional musician market. Since Madonna can presumably do business with anyone she likes, I imagine that UE is not nearly as unethical or incompetent as toaster continues to suggest.

Most companies can prove via research that their most satisfied customers are not necessarily those who have never had a problem with one of their products. Rather, the most loyal customers are those who had a problem that was courteously and satisfactorily resolved. (We found this to be true even for companies like LL Bean.) It is always a relief to realize that some companies can and do stand behind their products, even when there are manufacturing, shipping, or other issues. It makes you feel well taken care of.

As for defects well -- I'm on my third 4G Ipod due to audio defects; my BMW's Onstar system never worked; my $4,000 IBM Thinkpad was toasted out of the box; my $1500 Jennair stove had a defective simmer burner; my LL Bean "All conditions boots" leak like a sieve; Dell has sent me no less than four laptops before one came that actually functioned. I've had Palm Tungsten C failures; Krups coffeemakers that don't heat the coffee; Benjamin Moore paint peel off walls. And you know what? I'm going to continue to do business with these companies, and many others. Why? Because stuff happens. And as long as companies stand behind their products, I continue to be willing to buy things -- even expensive things -- even when something goes wrong.

I note also, toaster, your conspicuous ommission of iamdone's driver problems with his sensaphonics -- I guess anything wrong with sensas is just "one of those minor things" but since UE is a Deathstar company (along with apple, Shure, and probably countless others on your list) it is all part of some horribly sinister plot to defraud us all of our hard-earned money (or in your case, probably your parent's hard-earned money.

)

Lighten up, toaster -- the world won't come to an end if some of us continue to UE products. It's really ok -- really, it is!

Let it go, willya?

 

[Zoide]

You know, Dick Cheney used to be CEO of Ultimate Ears a couple years ago.....

j/k

 

[lindrone]

There's one argument that I don't buy though... that the full-soft material are meant for professional musicians only. It sounds a very bad excuse, because the people who're buying custom IEM's aren't just multi-million dollar musicians that doesn't care if they break and replace them every time they go on tour.

Case in point, my audiologist work with a lot of musicians, those who are rich enough to afford new IEM's every half a year flies her out, have her do their impressions, and have the IEM's directly shipped to them while they're out there somewhere. If they have any problems, they fly her out again. Those people who comes into her office and pick up their IEM's from her are the ones that are artists that's made good enough amount of money to be able to buy a pair of IEM, but certainly not replace them every six months.

Are these people not "professional musicians"? Anyway, I think UE made a mistake with this full-soft material, it is simply a design flaw. Of course, Random Person's point is right, just about every consumer electronic have design flaws or faults of one sort or another, it's just a matter of percentages before something breaks. As long as the company stands behind their guarantees and fixes the problem, there's nothing wrong with that particular aspect of the business.

However, the problem I'm having with them is simply a "design flaw" for any market. I don't think it's proper to use "professional musicians" as an excuse for the mistake.

 

[random person]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoide You know, Dick Cheney used to be CEO of Ultimate Ears a couple years ago..... j/k

I am simply amazed that Edwards let that one go!

 

[random person]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone I don't think it's proper to use "professional musicians" as an excuse for the mistake.

Oh, I agree with that -- it's just that dealing with the professional market at first may have masked the problem for them, causing them not to realize it as quickly as they might have (or as quickly as some of us would have wished). That's all I meant. In any case I feel certain they'll stand behind their product and will respond quickly to your complaint.

 

[mbk]

lindrone, if they offer to replace the phones are you going to ask for another UE10Pro in hard acrylic or a UE5c?

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by random person Oh, I agree with that -- it's just that dealing with the professional market at first may have masked the problem for them, causing them not to realize it as quickly as they might have (or as quickly as some of us would have wished). That's all I meant. In any case I feel certain they'll stand behind their product and will respond quickly to your complaint.

Ah, I see.. yup, I completely agree with that. It probably took UE a while to figure out their design flaw. On a slightly unrelated but related tangent (since you mentioned it earlier), how long before Apple is willing to address 4G iPod's flaw?!

 

[random person]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone Ah, I see.. yup, I completely agree with that. It probably took UE a while to figure out their design flaw. On a slightly unrelated but related tangent (since you mentioned it earlier), how long before Apple is willing to address 4G iPod's flaw?!

The Apple 4G problem is amazing, isn't it? I am somewhat shocked by Apple here -- not that they have this problem, but that they have not publicly acknowleged it yet. They seem to be hoping for the "slippage" factor -- that many of us either won't notice the defect, or won't care, and they can then fix the problem behind the scenes without going through any public embarrassment or a massive level of product returns. I find it very disappointing, especially since it appears that it is easier for buyers to return the 4G to certain resellers than it is to return it to Apple directly. That's simply inexcusable.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by random person The Apple 4G problem is amazing, isn't it? I am somewhat shocked by Apple here -- not that they have this problem, but that they have not publicly acknowleged it yet. They seem to be hoping for the "slippage" factor -- that many of us either won't notice the defect, or won't care, and they can then fix the problem behind the scenes without going through any public embarrassment or a massive level of product returns. I find it very disappointing, especially since it appears that it is easier for buyers to return the 4G to certain resellers than it is to return it to Apple directly. That's simply inexcusable.

Not the first time that Apple has done something like this.. they ignored some video chipset problem with one of the iBook from way back when, only until about 6 months after reported defect they start offering replacements, of course by then it was no longer front-page news. There was also the infamous CD-ROM problem with the first TiBook, where the CD-ROM could be misaligned, and you could get a CD jammed inside that you can never take out... they didn't fix that one 'til months and months afterwards. I think I remember one of the earlier Powerbook has a power brick that literally "burn" given certain condition...

Unfortunately I still like the iPod more than any other portable players..

BTW, I don't know if anyone's seen this, this is from iPodlounge's latest update:

"What is Apple's official position on the Audio Defect? (Updated 9-17-04)
We have continued to request comment from Apple regarding the Audio Defect, and in response to a September 16 inquiry, an Apple iPod team representative responded on September 17, 2004 that "Apple does not have any comment at this time." We had previously noted that Apple had not commented on the record to iPodlounge since late July, at which time the company indicated that it was still looking into the issue. Some users whose units exhibited the problem have reported receiving exchanges from Apple Store locations and certain other Apple-authorized retailers."

 

[random person]

Yes I saw that ipodlounge update about Apple.

Incredibly, I love all my Ipods, despite all these well-documented issues and my own experiences. Go figure!

 

[lindrone]

So, here's the good news:

Quote:

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. We will be happy to build you a completely new pair of clear, full hard UE-5c’s under your existing warranty. As I am sure you can appreciate, we do require the UE-10s be sent back to us. Upon receipt of the UE-10s we will put your UE-5c’s into process, and get you back into the business of enjoying great sound in your ears.

So I'll be sending my UE-10 Pro's back... and matter of weeks before I see an UE5c coming back...