[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu That is the truth that got buried underneath all of the rubbish in this thread.

Hmm... what you've said is only half-truth. At the time of purchase for both of our IEM's, UE advertised the "full-soft" material very heavily. That was basically their way of competing with other companies that has a "soft" material as well. I remember just about every mention of UE-10 Pro had the "full-soft" material alongside of it as a stated benefit.

So the other half of the truth is, in their email communication and such they will suggest the casual user to use the hard acrylic instead. However, that doesn't mean they didn't advertise the full-soft material heavily. Now they've changed their stance and basically made very little mention of the full-soft material now, for whatever the reasons might be.

I also *had* to get the full-soft material to do an adequate comparison between UE's full-soft versus Sensa's "ComfortGel" material. Otherwise you guys all would've cried foul when I said Sensa's material is better. Of course, having the full-soft material do this to me in less than half a year of time is... er... very unexpected. I hope it's not an usual occurence. I don't know what KPOT's crack look like either, could be the same cause, or could be entirely different.

Let's also not exaggerate the situation too much, thus far there's KPOT with some reported problems, I have some problems, and the musician I talked to had problems. I don't know if I would say it's "many" times, as if it would happen to everyone who's got a UE-10 Pro with full-soft material.

Edit: Still, a few cases is enough to put a big warning sign on the material itself... *sigh*.. but anyway, not exaggerating, but don't undermine either.

Anyway, none of the discussion has anything to do with customer service yet, I'll email them soon about it (with pictures attached) and see what they say.

Lastly...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu IF YOU CAN AFFORD THE ULTIMATE EARS Ue-10 PRO, THEN GET THE HARD ACRYLIC MATERIAL!

I don't know if I remember the timeline as accurate as I think... but I think when I ordered the UE-10 Pro, you still had the full-soft material yourself? Or did you just switch from full-soft to hard acrylic? Either way, hard acrylic is "cheaper"... not more expensive. I myself told everyone in my review that it's not worth it to get the full-soft. That's all besides the point, the fact is that I had to get the full-soft for comparison purposes.

 

[remilard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 there have been numerous instances about the ue's developing cracks. also, people have developed allergic reactions to their ue's - these issues are simply obscene considering the product. it displays poor workmanship and poor build quality. it's happend MANY times, and that's simply not acceptable. there is a big difference between a defective driver that is used in a product from a bad batch, and MANY instances of cracking and peeling among countless ue products. the fact that they also have had customers developting allergic reactions to their product is just ridiculous - do your research and do not select a material that causes allergic reactions. ue's advertising turned me off to the company, but all stuff that i've heard (and now seen for myself) really solidifies my belief that ue is not operating as ethically as (i think) an ethical company should. good, they fix their mistakes, but an ethical company does not make these kinds of mistakes in the first place. EDIT: whatever, sorry for going on and on about this, but i really don't like what i've seen from ue. i'll just let the pix speak for themselves.

Your opinions about the value of a product developed for short term use by touring musicians is worthless, UE offers a product (hard acrylic) which is a better value for home users.

Some UE customers have had relatively minor problems with their products, as have some Sensa users, yourself included. If you want to point me to a head-fi user whose problem with UE products hasn't been resolved satisfactorily I would be greatful, as I have not noticed any posts to this effect. As far as I can tell, both UE and sensaphonics have remarkable customer service, UE directly, and sensaphonics through its audiologist network. However, the shamless pimping of sensaphonics on this website at the expense of UE (and only Lindrone can talk about both with authority) has given me a bad taste in my mouth about sensaphonics that they don't deserve.

I think that the opinions of UE and sensaphonics users about the products they actually own suggest overwhelmingly that both are wonderful companies. It is unfortunate that it is impossible to audition both before purchasing but I don't see how the endless backhanded comments help potential IEM purchasers. I would like to see lots of comments of UE and sensa customers concerning the products that they own, and AFAIK lindrone is the only active member that can comment on both. I would like to see the bickering end because I am not sure that it benefits either company.

 

[Max Minimum]

Just a note here, and I'm not trying to flame you, toaster - it'd be almost impossible to make a canalphone (or headphone, carseat, bottle, you name it) that some people won't be allergic to. That stuff just happens. People are allergic to plastic, aluminum, gold, rubber, silicon... it's endless. That is almost definitely not the fault of UE. Now the cracks are another story. I hope this happens in a very small number of 'phones. Good luck with the replacement I imagine you'll get soon after reporting this to UE, Lindrone.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by remilard I would like to see lots of comments of UE and sensa customers concerning the products that they own, and AFAIK lindrone is the only active member that can comment on both.

Actually, I think Big D has both of them now as well.

 

[Welly Wu]

 

[Big D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 there have been numerous instances about the ue's developing cracks.

Well actually only Lindrone here (and possibly KPOT) and he has seen a pair that were cracked before, though no comment on how old they were. You "selectively" forget to mention that UE provide a full 12 month warranty vs Sensas 6 months so Lindrone will have these repaired/replaced under warranty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 also, people have developed allergic reactions to their ue's

Please point me in the direction of these "many people". There have been a small minority of people who may have had a reaction to the soft material, by UEs admission. Seeing as you don't know/understand the pathophysiology of allergies I won't embarrass you further on this comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 - these issues are simply obscene considering the product. it displays poor workmanship and poor build quality.

Unfortunately two things you cannot comment on as you have no idea how common these problems are. Also you've never seen the UEs so you cannot comment on the workmanship of them. Having had both soft and hard acrylic and the 2X-S in my possession AT THE SAME TIME I can tell you the workmanship of all three are comparable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 it's happend MANY times, and that's simply not acceptable. there is a big difference between a defective driver that is used in a product from a bad batch, and MANY instances of cracking and peeling among countless ue products.

Unfortunately putting "many" in capital letters doesn't make it true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 the fact that they also have had customers developting allergic reactions to their product is just ridiculous - do your research and do not select a material that causes allergic reactions.

They will have researched and tested the material but the reaction is clearly uncommon and comes on with repeated use over time. This is something that is likely to only be detected with long-term use, so it has only shown up now.

A drug called Vioxx (rofecoxib) was withdrawn by the manufacturer last week. It has been used to treat the pain of arthritis for 5 years. Before that it would have been thoroughly tested for 5 years. A recent trial showed that those taking it for more than 18 months were at double the risk of having a heart attack or stroke. This has not been shown before. Given that they sold $2.5 billion worth of the drug last year it is a commonly used drug. Not every problem can be detected before the release of a product.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 ue's advertising turned me off to the company, but all stuff that i've heard (and now seen for myself) really solidifies my belief that ue is not operating as ethically as (i think) an ethical company should. good, they fix their mistakes, but an ethical company does not make these kinds of mistakes in the first place.

If their products were as bad as you are suggesting then professional users would stop using them and they would lose the bulk of their business. As you have no evidence of this there is little to support your arguement.

Given that UE have withdrawn the soft material and are offering me a new pair of hard acrylic under warranty even though I cannot be absolutely sure the problem with itching is related to the material I don't see how you could can them unethical. In fact your above comment is potentially libellous and you haven't a leg to stand on if they choose to take the matter further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 whatever, sorry for going on and on about this, but i really don't like what i've seen from ue. i'll just let the pix speak for themselves.

Obviously you are unable to let the pictures speak for themselves. You continue to pimp the Sensas over the UEs even though you have NO personal experience of the UEs, so I'd suggest that you don't make further comment or you'll continue to embarrass yourself or worse find yourself in court.

 

[Big D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 i would not expect a 200 dollars pair of headphones to do that...for friggin' 950 dollars...you have got to be kidding me.

Products fail for whatever reason so don't pull the "It's a disgrace" card. UE obviously have more confidence in their product than Sensaphonics based on the warranty periods.

What will you do if your Sensas develop a fault in 7 months? I know what I would do if my UEs developed a fault in 7 months.

 

[jude]

toaster22, your posts in this thread have been reported to me via post-reporting and PM, and I can completely understand why.

What is it with your penchant for making such borderline (at best) slanderous comments? Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 ....good, they fix their mistakes, but an ethical company does not make these kinds of mistakes in the first place....

What kind of statement is that? This is just one sentence from you (of many) in this thread that reads as absolutely absurd. I would feel safe venturing to say that almost every single manufacturer/seller of headphones, amps, cables, source components, accessories, etc. at all price ranges makes mistakes at some point or another, and the good ones rectify the situation(s) -- are they all unethical for making mistakes in the first place?

I've seen few (if any) members here so quick to start a public witch hunt with so little empirical evidence. First it was your warnings to the thousands of members of this website that a particular headphone was definitely dangerous, and would damage their hearing -- and now these statements.

Unless/until you have more to go on, what's unethical, in this case, are your posts in this thread so far.

 

[dmt1]

The soft option is available for musicians only for a reason--they use an IEM monitor for one tour, then discard it (It's good to be rich). Durability takes a back seat to comfort in this situation (although I have no comfort issues whatsoever with the hard acrylic). IMHO, the soft option should never have been offered in the first place except for professionals; I think UE eventually realized this, and now only the hard acrylic is available to the nonprofessionals. At this point, I think hard acrylic is at least, if not more, durable than any other material available, which is one reason I wanted to go that route. It would be interesting to hear from KPOT, but UE's track record for customer service has been outstanding (as has Sensa's, from the looks of these boards), and I think anyone with problems with the soft option will be taken care of. I can understand why someone may not like the hard acrylic option, and rather go a different direction--and I can understand why someone would prefer hard acrylic to silicone (as I do). The UE soft option, for the consumer crowd, should/has been retired from the lineup. It was an unfortunate choice, but UE has made good on fixing it for those who chose it.

I have absolutely no doubt UE will take care of you Lindrone. I'll bet they'll swap out for the UE5C's, as it will actually cost them less, if you so desire.

I was actually going to quit posting in threads like these, but Jude's post gives me hope that maybe we can get back on to a more helpful, objective track.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bLue_oNioN Roger that! EDIT: Random thought... why isn't it Frank, or Bob, or Joe instead of Roger?

Google is your buddy.

http://www.ac6v.com/73.htm#roger

In short "Roger" = R in old-style phonetic alphabet (now it's "Romeo") = "received". So it's short for "Received your message", just as "Roger Wilco" is "Received your message, will comply."

Now, back to the incipient flamewar.

(Well, I hope not.)

 

[wolfen68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jude toaster22, your posts in this thread have been reported to me via post-reporting and PM, and I can completely understand why. What is it with your penchant for making such borderline (at best) slanderous comments?What kind of statement is that? This is just one sentence from you (of many) in this thread that reads as absolutely absurd. I would feel safe venturing to say that almost every single manufacturer/seller of headphones, amps, cables, source components, accessories, etc. at all price ranges makes mistakes at some point or another, and the good ones rectify the situation(s) -- are they all unethical for making mistakes in the first place? I've seen few (if any) members here so quick to start a public witch hunt with so little empirical evidence. First it was your warnings to the thousands of members of this website that a particular headphone was definitely dangerous, and would damage their hearing -- and now these statements. Unless/until you have more to go on, what's unethical, in this case, are your posts in this thread so far.

Agreed.

 

[gorman]

Well... first of all thanks to Jude for coming to this thread. I was going to reply to toaster22 but there's no need. Thanks Jude, really!

Back on topic, that damage is *serious*... I would bet money that you will get a solution to your complete satisfaction from UE, Lindrone. I have come to expect nothing less from them.

Furthermore, as I will write in a future thread, I find the hard acrylic version more comfortable than the full-soft. And by far easier to clean too.

I want to add that I owned the full-soft version for about 4 months without it developing any kind of cracks. Then the high driver malfunctioned in the right earpiece and UE made a whole new pair for me under warranty, in hard acrylic. I'm writing all this for the benefit of new users of the boards, that might be misled about UE customer service.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorman Well... first of all thanks to Jude for coming to this thread. I was going to reply to toaster22 but there's no need. Thanks Jude, really! Back on topic, that damage is *serious*... I would bet money that you will get a solution to your complete satisfaction from UE, Lindrone. I have come to expect nothing less from them. Furthermore, as I will write in a future thread, I find the hard acrylic version more comfortable than the full-soft. And by far easier to clean too. I want to add that I owned the full-soft version for about 4 months without it developing any kind of cracks. Then the high driver malfunctioned in the right earpiece and UE made a whole new pair for me under warranty, in hard acrylic. I'm writing all this for the benefit of new users of the boards, that might be misled about UE customer service.

Just so you know both sides of the story I had the same exact thing happen to my highend driver on my sensaphonics.

After about a week and half with my remolded 2x-s, the leftside highend driver started shorting out. I though something was blocking the hole or there was a short in the cable but it turned out it was inside the driver. When pressing on the silcon the high driver would kick in and would then stop when I released it.

I sent them off last week and should have them back this thursday. Im pretty sure they just replaced them and didn't actually repair them (as I don't think it's possible with the solid silcon).

Defects can happen to any product. The ue problem with the cracks is a different issue but if it's still a rare case, then it's nothing to make an issue of. If it's bigger than that, I think ue should do some kind of recall and replace them with the hard acrylic. Just don't base the product on a few bad ones.

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone After about a week and half with my remolded 2x-s, the leftside highend driver started shorting out. I though something was blocking the hole or there was a short in the cable but it turned out it was inside the driver. When pressing on the silcon the high driver would kick in and would then stop when I released it.

Wow! Freaking incredible! The same exact problem I had with the rightside earpiece. The same down to the "push-works/release-doesn't work". I'm happy your customer service experience was as good as mine. Back to our listening hobby!

 

[toaster]

i definitely think i could have worded what i said differently, but i still do not look upon ue very fondly.

i think the cracking problem is the main issue that makes me raise my eyebrows. i have heard of numerous ("many" certainly would be fair to say, but i'll avoid it this time) instances, including lindrone's, and at least one other head-fier who mentioned cracking. the fact that ue removed the "soft" option from their site, just goes to show that they realized they had a problem with it.

yeah, as far as mistakes/defects go, i did harp a bit too much on that, as all companies make mistakes. i just let my feelings for ue regarding the cracking issue and their advertising (which i've made abundantly clear i dislike) take over. i wrongfully grouped these less legitimate random defects together with the other stuff i already know i do not like about ue.

i still feel the same way about ue, but i wish i hadn't expressed my feelings the way i had.

oh well...

when i said "these kind of mistakes," i specifically chose these words over just saying "mistakes." i was referring to what i see (yeah, it's my opinion) as an inexcusable mistake, in ue's soft offering. the multitude of issues spoken of, conveys an utter lack of foresight on the company's part. the fact that ue pulled the soft option just proves ue realized something was wrong. it doesn't even have anything to do with sensaphonics - it's just from a business standpoint, in my opinion of how i think a respectable business should act - ue's fault here is really, really shameful. they clearly wanted to compete in the market with a soft offering of their own, but prematurely released a product to fill this niche without proper research, ultimately showing a lack of concern (in some way) for the end user.

whether or not you agree with me as to how big a deal this is up to you, but it doesn't change the fact that it is true.

if someone from ue reads this and can fully explain to me what the deal is with the soft offering cracking and being pulled from the site, i would immediately apologize and take back all i have said pertaining to the issue.

at the risk of being the first head-fi member to be burned at the stake, i will refrain from any further posting in this thread.