Zoide
Headphoneus Supremus
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Our "King Canaling" is living up to his name...
UE-10 Pro material separation/crack?
- Thread starter lindrone
- Start date
Big D
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Quote:
Quote:
It's interesting that Toaster22 is an iPod owner yet Apple's atitude to this obvious problem doesn't seem to breach his high moral standards, nor their prominent in-your-face advertising!!
| Originally Posted by random person The Apple 4G problem is amazing, isn't it? I am somewhat shocked by Apple here -- not that they have this problem, but that they have not publicly acknowleged it yet. They seem to be hoping for the "slippage" factor -- that many of us either won't notice the defect, or won't care, and they can then fix the problem behind the scenes without going through any public embarrassment or a massive level of product returns. I find it very disappointing, especially since it appears that it is easier for buyers to return the 4G to certain resellers than it is to return it to Apple directly. That's simply inexcusable. |
Quote:
| Originally Posted by toaster22 the REAL reason they stopped is because people were having ALLERGIC REACTIONS - even though those reactions were rare, the fact that it happened at all is simply astonishing. on top of this, the thing falls apart after 2 months? words fail to express the absurdly terrible business practice going on here. as someone who's father is a successful businessman and being interested in the business world myself, ue's issues with their products show a lack of foresight, engineering skill and utter disregard for their customers...a pure disgrace. there are few businesses that i know of that exhibit such poor workmanship/ethics... feel free to flame me all you want - the pictures and past comments about ue speak for themselves. uch... |
It's interesting that Toaster22 is an iPod owner yet Apple's atitude to this obvious problem doesn't seem to breach his high moral standards, nor their prominent in-your-face advertising!!
Bunnyears
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Okay, I get it, but still $400! I sure hope he likes the UE-5s! But considering how much all of this has cost him? [size=medium]OUCH[/size]
| Originally Posted by Big D It's quite simple....... Lindrone [size=large]HAS[/size] been offered a UE-10 Pro replacement by UE however he [size=large]CHOOSES[/size] to have the UE-5c instead because he doesn't like the sound signature of the UE-10 Pro over the 2X-S. As he doesn't really use the UE-10 Pro this is the best option for him. He isn't "letting them off the hook" as this is his choice and they are complying with Lindrone's wishes. The UE-5c are different to the UE-10 Pro as they are tuned to give more bass. He is returning the UE-10 Pro and the UE-5c will be sent out free of charge under warranty. How will he have 2 sets of phones gathering dust? Your analagy doesn't apply here as the product is custom made and there is no universal fit option. If you don't like the sound signature of the iPod then you can return it. This isn't an option of custom IEMs or the companies would go out of business quickly with people returning them having decided the sound signature isn't quite to his/her liking. UE have done exactly what anyone would have expected and offered a replacement. They are under no obligation to offer Lindrone a refund of the $400 as he chooses to have the less expensive UE-5c as a replacement instead of the offered $900 UE-10 Pro. Hopefully this makes things clear for you!!
|
Okay, I get it, but still $400! I sure hope he likes the UE-5s! But considering how much all of this has cost him? [size=medium]OUCH[/size]
lindrone
King Canaling
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Hehee.. once again, thanks for the concern.. Yeah.. I know... but in a way, UE-10 Pro was just $1000 in the hole as well, I didn't like them enough to keep them or ask for a replacement UE-10 Pro, so that's an indication, right?
Even if I end up not liking the UE5c either, at least it'll be something different to play around with and see exactly what I get out of it. No sense in getting another UE-10 Pro and shelving it again.
| Originally Posted by Bunnyears Okay, I get it, but still $400! I sure hope he likes the UE-5s! But considering how much all of this has cost him? [size=medium]OUCH[/size]
|
Hehee.. once again, thanks for the concern.. Yeah.. I know... but in a way, UE-10 Pro was just $1000 in the hole as well, I didn't like them enough to keep them or ask for a replacement UE-10 Pro, so that's an indication, right?
Even if I end up not liking the UE5c either, at least it'll be something different to play around with and see exactly what I get out of it. No sense in getting another UE-10 Pro and shelving it again.
iamdone
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
Well you got a couple of good reviews out of them and the piece of mind that there's not a better iem out there (at least to your ears). Now for that same $1000, you can test another pairs of iems, get a few more reviews, and some more piece of mind that you'll still have the best iem out there even if the ue5c wins (let's hope not).
Oh yeah, I got something directly out of your have both ue10 and 2x-s since you did that comparison to the my hd650/zu. Thank you once again. I couldn't be happier with my 2x-s (even with the few issues I've had).
| Originally Posted by lindrone Hehee.. once again, thanks for the concern.. Yeah.. I know... but in a way, UE-10 Pro was just $1000 in the hole as well, I didn't like them enough to keep them or ask for a replacement UE-10 Pro, so that's an indication, right? Even if I end up not liking the UE5c either, at least it'll be something different to play around with and see exactly what I get out of it. No sense in getting another UE-10 Pro and shelving it again. |
Well you got a couple of good reviews out of them and the piece of mind that there's not a better iem out there (at least to your ears). Now for that same $1000, you can test another pairs of iems, get a few more reviews, and some more piece of mind that you'll still have the best iem out there even if the ue5c wins (let's hope not).
Oh yeah, I got something directly out of your have both ue10 and 2x-s since you did that comparison to the my hd650/zu. Thank you once again. I couldn't be happier with my 2x-s (even with the few issues I've had).
wolfen68
Headphoneus Supremus
It's actually kind of sad. Once the new UE5c's come in. The sensas will be gathering dust...
I'm just kidding....don't hurt me
.
Prediction mode ON:
Based upon nothing but sheer guessing (therefore this means nothing) is that Lindrone will still prefer the sensa sound as technically superior...but find the UE5c's as a fun listening alternative at a great price point...especially as compared to E5's.
And you'll like the hard acryillic...I'm almost sure of it.
Prediction mode OFF.
I look forward to impressions.
I'm just kidding....don't hurt me
Prediction mode ON:
Based upon nothing but sheer guessing (therefore this means nothing) is that Lindrone will still prefer the sensa sound as technically superior...but find the UE5c's as a fun listening alternative at a great price point...especially as compared to E5's.
And you'll like the hard acryillic...I'm almost sure of it.
Prediction mode OFF.
I look forward to impressions.
Welly Wu
Headphoneus Supremus
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An interesting turn in developments...
remilard
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They don't need to explain anything to you, you aren't their customer or the FTC or anyon else that has any right to criticize their business practices. You will notice that their customers aren't upset with the way they do business at all. I notice that most customers of Sensaphonics and Ultimate Ears need to have their products reworked or replaced at least once, and that everyone seems to be thrilled with the service they have gotten from either company.
I've never seen anyone stress themselves out this much trying to justify a purchase before.
| Originally Posted by toaster22 if someone from ue reads this and can fully explain to me what the deal is with the soft offering cracking and being pulled from the site, i would immediately apologize and take back all i have said pertaining to the issue. at the risk of being the first head-fi member to be burned at the stake, i will refrain from any further posting in this thread. |
They don't need to explain anything to you, you aren't their customer or the FTC or anyon else that has any right to criticize their business practices. You will notice that their customers aren't upset with the way they do business at all. I notice that most customers of Sensaphonics and Ultimate Ears need to have their products reworked or replaced at least once, and that everyone seems to be thrilled with the service they have gotten from either company.
I've never seen anyone stress themselves out this much trying to justify a purchase before.
Zoide
Headphoneus Supremus
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I think we should all just caaaalm down and look at things from the following perspective:
- Clearly toaster22 hates/strongly dislikes Ultimate Ears, for whatever reason it may be.
- Many people here don't.
- Maybe some do.
- Who cares?
- Toaster22: IMO the best would be for you to call UE or email your complaints/comments/concerns to them. AFAIK none of us on Head-Fi are directly related to UE.
- Clearly toaster22 hates/strongly dislikes Ultimate Ears, for whatever reason it may be.
- Many people here don't.
- Maybe some do.
- Who cares?
- Toaster22: IMO the best would be for you to call UE or email your complaints/comments/concerns to them. AFAIK none of us on Head-Fi are directly related to UE.
lindrone
King Canaling
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You're welcome..
It's always fun meeting up with local Head-Fiers... Who else am I going to share this weird obsessive hobby with?
As far as "ethical" issues are concerned.. I've been staying away from commenting on it... because I want this thread to be more or less just about the UE-10 Pro cracking... Anyway, I will say a "few" things.
The ethical issue that I've had personally with UE has nothing to do with their products, and nothing to do with their customer service. Some people participating in this thread might be reading this for the very first time, some people will have read this before. My issue with UE's "ethics" has to do with their marketing.
Ultimate Ears heavily marketed their IEM based on frequency response charts. Especially in this specific case, there's no industry established standard on how frequency response should be measured with IEM's. I've stated before in various thread on the different equipment and standards that could be used to do this, and each will yield a vary wildly different result. However, Ultimate Ears uses their frequency response chart as a "proof" of their superiority, and by using a non-established standard to measure themselves against the rest of the industry, is in my view, a pretty unfair practice by any stretch.
Furthermore, for a while "HRA" was on this forum as well, and he has a personal relationship with people at UE, and he heavily touted UE as being the "best in industry"... He was even able to obtain a "frequency response chart" comparing UE and Sensaphonic against each other. I vaguely remember him saying that UE did the measurement of this comparison, but I can't be sure, it could be completely done via another third party or whatever. Either way, he posted the chart here, further driving more people into believing that just by looking at a frequency response chart, that UE was automatically "superior".
Only until much later on that a rep from Sensaphonic joined the forum, and informed us that HRA's frequency response chart of their Sensaphonic 2X-S doesn't look anything like what they see when they do their in house testing.
What it comes down to is that UE heavily utilize a non-industry standard as a way to prove superiority and improve marketability. I don't think it's right for any company to do that. I don't agree with any type of this "benchmark" marketing mentality...
For example, Apple stating their CPU is the "most powerful processor on earth" with some arbitrary benchmarking of their own; nVidia optimizing their video card driver to score really high in a certain benchmark.
What was really strange to me, is that if Sennheiser came out today and stated they have the "best headphone on earth"... I think all of us would collectively go, "Eh, really? Hmm... sure... okay...", obviously with a lot of doubt and skepticism. None of us is going to believe it until we hear it. Yet somehow when Ultimate Ears said, "We have the best IEM on the market."... I saw a lot of people who dived in, even people who dived in with consultation only with Ultimate Ears themselves... As if any rep you talk with at Ultimate Ears is going to say, "No, we're not the best, there's something better out there."
Anyway, that... and other miscellaneous thing is why I consider Ultimate Ears veering on the "un" side of being "ethical" with their marketing. Of course, as I always mention, there's a lot of other companies I think is unethical in general... Sony, Apple, Microsoft.. all good examples. Guess what, I have products from all of them, just because they're products that's good and they work for me. I have products from Ultimate Ears as well now...
I think a company can be "unethical" in practice and still have "good products" at the same time.
| Originally Posted by iamdone Oh yeah, I got something directly out of your have both ue10 and 2x-s since you did that comparison to the my hd650/zu. Thank you once again. I couldn't be happier with my 2x-s (even with the few issues I've had). |
You're welcome..
As far as "ethical" issues are concerned.. I've been staying away from commenting on it... because I want this thread to be more or less just about the UE-10 Pro cracking... Anyway, I will say a "few" things.
The ethical issue that I've had personally with UE has nothing to do with their products, and nothing to do with their customer service. Some people participating in this thread might be reading this for the very first time, some people will have read this before. My issue with UE's "ethics" has to do with their marketing.
Ultimate Ears heavily marketed their IEM based on frequency response charts. Especially in this specific case, there's no industry established standard on how frequency response should be measured with IEM's. I've stated before in various thread on the different equipment and standards that could be used to do this, and each will yield a vary wildly different result. However, Ultimate Ears uses their frequency response chart as a "proof" of their superiority, and by using a non-established standard to measure themselves against the rest of the industry, is in my view, a pretty unfair practice by any stretch.
Furthermore, for a while "HRA" was on this forum as well, and he has a personal relationship with people at UE, and he heavily touted UE as being the "best in industry"... He was even able to obtain a "frequency response chart" comparing UE and Sensaphonic against each other. I vaguely remember him saying that UE did the measurement of this comparison, but I can't be sure, it could be completely done via another third party or whatever. Either way, he posted the chart here, further driving more people into believing that just by looking at a frequency response chart, that UE was automatically "superior".
Only until much later on that a rep from Sensaphonic joined the forum, and informed us that HRA's frequency response chart of their Sensaphonic 2X-S doesn't look anything like what they see when they do their in house testing.
What it comes down to is that UE heavily utilize a non-industry standard as a way to prove superiority and improve marketability. I don't think it's right for any company to do that. I don't agree with any type of this "benchmark" marketing mentality...
For example, Apple stating their CPU is the "most powerful processor on earth" with some arbitrary benchmarking of their own; nVidia optimizing their video card driver to score really high in a certain benchmark.
What was really strange to me, is that if Sennheiser came out today and stated they have the "best headphone on earth"... I think all of us would collectively go, "Eh, really? Hmm... sure... okay...", obviously with a lot of doubt and skepticism. None of us is going to believe it until we hear it. Yet somehow when Ultimate Ears said, "We have the best IEM on the market."... I saw a lot of people who dived in, even people who dived in with consultation only with Ultimate Ears themselves... As if any rep you talk with at Ultimate Ears is going to say, "No, we're not the best, there's something better out there."
Anyway, that... and other miscellaneous thing is why I consider Ultimate Ears veering on the "un" side of being "ethical" with their marketing. Of course, as I always mention, there's a lot of other companies I think is unethical in general... Sony, Apple, Microsoft.. all good examples. Guess what, I have products from all of them, just because they're products that's good and they work for me. I have products from Ultimate Ears as well now...
I think a company can be "unethical" in practice and still have "good products" at the same time.
gorman
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Your memory is working flawlessly, that frequency response chart was done in the UE labs, HRA willingly admitted it.
Soon Headroom will have UE-10 and UE-5 frequency response charts done in their labs. Ask them to do it for your Sensas, they offer this service in this thread and I guess they should be independent enough. Quote:
I got in touch with both companies and decided for UE-10 Pro when Michael Santucci himself mentioned that "Some listeners like flat, especially with classical recordings, but in our independent studies, most listeners prefer more bass than a flat response offers." and when asked specifically he answered "Yes, they do emphasize bass." speaking about 2X-S.
I seeked a mostly flat response and the decision was done for me. Furthermore, his position clearly fits in very well with your listening tastes, so everybody is happy.
| Originally Posted by lindrone He was even able to obtain a "frequency response chart" comparing UE and Sensaphonic against each other. I vaguely remember him saying that UE did the measurement of this comparison, but I can't be sure, it could be completely done via another third party or whatever. |
Your memory is working flawlessly, that frequency response chart was done in the UE labs, HRA willingly admitted it.
Soon Headroom will have UE-10 and UE-5 frequency response charts done in their labs. Ask them to do it for your Sensas, they offer this service in this thread and I guess they should be independent enough. Quote:
| Yet somehow when Ultimate Ears said, "We have the best IEM on the market."... I saw a lot of people who dived in, even people who dived in with consultation only with Ultimate Ears themselves... |
I got in touch with both companies and decided for UE-10 Pro when Michael Santucci himself mentioned that "Some listeners like flat, especially with classical recordings, but in our independent studies, most listeners prefer more bass than a flat response offers." and when asked specifically he answered "Yes, they do emphasize bass." speaking about 2X-S.
I seeked a mostly flat response and the decision was done for me. Furthermore, his position clearly fits in very well with your listening tastes, so everybody is happy.
Zoide
Headphoneus Supremus
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Ahh... civilized dialogue and exchange of ideas.
Let's keep it up
Let's keep it up
gorman
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Forgot about this... damn! I should have taken bets for real...
| Originally Posted by gorman Back on topic, that damage is *serious*... I would bet money that you will get a solution to your complete satisfaction from UE, Lindrone. I have come to expect nothing less from them. |
Forgot about this... damn! I should have taken bets for real...
lindrone
King Canaling
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LMAO....
I shipped the UE-10 Pro back to them overnight, and I just got the reception confirmation email. So it's in there office somewhere. I'll contact them later today to make sure they've got it.
So.. hopefully in another week or two....
| Originally Posted by gorman Forgot about this... damn! I should have taken bets for real...
|
LMAO....
I shipped the UE-10 Pro back to them overnight, and I just got the reception confirmation email. So it's in there office somewhere. I'll contact them later today to make sure they've got it.
So.. hopefully in another week or two....
lindrone
King Canaling
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Just got an email, the package has been received, they said my UE5c will be made by the middle of next week or so. I'm guessing if I'm very, very lucky, it will arrive before end of next week. However I'm guessing shipping will take longer than that, so I'm not expecting them to be there 'til the week after that.
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